Bahai is correct about God in my opinion

[Vinayaka]

Is it possible we make of One God, a God of our own image and understanding?

Regards Tony

Regards Tony

There you go again, using 'our' when you mean 'my'. There will always be great variety in the conceptions of God (and lack of belief in God at all) that the human race has. That isn't about to change. But if you want to deceive yourself into thinking that everyone can or will think like you, that's on you.

 

[Brian2]

My point was that all the religions were right initially, before the truth of that religion became obscured by human misinterpretations and misunderstandings.

“It is an indisputable fact that religions have always changed in the course of their long history. Religion, unless it has become a faith of the ‘dead letter’, is a living thing, and to be living means to assimilate, to absorb and incorporate foreign matter. All religions have done this, and the clear source of revelation has become a broad stream made up of many tributaries. In the course of their history all religions have incorporated beliefs and practices alien to them in essence and have thereby departed from their source, the revelation. The religious heritage has been constantly increased, while the revelation has been obscured by human misinterpretations and misunderstandings.”
(Udo Schaefer,The Light Shineth in Darkness: Studies in revelation after Christ, pl. 80)

So now they are wrong. I know, I understand.

The first part of the Religion of God which refers to spiritual truth is the same in every religion. The second part of the Religion of God which refers to material things is different in each religion. It changes in each prophetic cycle to accommodate the needs of the times.

In the following passage, the Law of God refers to the divinely revealed religion of God. The spiritual message (spiritual virtues and divine qualities) are the same in all the great world religions:

“the Law of God is divided into two parts. One is the fundamental basis which comprises all spiritual things—that is to say, it refers to the spiritual virtues and divine qualities; this does not change nor alter: it is the Holy of Holies, which is the essence of the Law of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb, and Bahá’u’lláh, and which lasts and is established in all the prophetic cycles. It will never be abrogated, for it is spiritual and not material truth; it is faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy. It shows mercy to the poor, defends the oppressed, gives to the wretched and uplifts the fallen......

These divine qualities, these eternal commandments, will never be abolished; nay, they will last and remain established for ever and ever. These virtues of humanity will be renewed in each of the different cycles; for at the end of every cycle the spiritual Law of God—that is to say, the human virtues—disappears, and only the form subsists.
Some Answered Questions, pp. 47-48[/QUOTE]

Hmm, OK it's slow to sink in but getting there I think.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Bahais believe in God of Abraham. They believe God of abraham is the universal God. And that God has no spesific religion.

I agree with this,

Do you agree or disagree?

Were you born into an Abrahamic religion? If yes, do you believe this background influenced your agreement with Bahai ideas?

On your question, I disagree because per my limited understanding, all Abrahamic beliefs come with exclusivity clauses. For instance, what is the fate of the idol worshipping Hindu - who believes in reincarnation? The pic below is of Muruga - a South Indian god.

 

[Truthseeker]

Xenu also called Xemu, is a figure in the Church of Scientology's secret "Advanced Technology",[4] a sacred and esoteric teaching.[5] According to the "Technology", Xenu was the extraterrestrial ruler of a "Galactic Confederacy" who brought billions[6][7] of his people to Earth (then known as "Teegeeack") in DC-8-like spacecraft 75 million years ago, stacked them around volcanoes, and killed them with hydrogen bombs. Official Scientology scriptures hold that the thetans (immortal spirits) of these aliens adhere to humans, causing spiritual harm.[1][8]

Wow! I had never heard heard of Xenu, and now I know it's origin.

 

[Nakosis]

Bahais believe in God of Abraham. They believe God of abraham is the universal God. And that God has no spesific religion.

I agree with this,

Do you agree or disagree?

How do you define the God of Abraham?
If this is the God as depicted in the Bible, I certainly hope not.
God, the killer of first born. God who killed the majority of people during the flood.
The God who allowed Satan to torture Job.
The God who turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for the crime of looking back.
The God who sent his own son to to earth to be hung up on a cross.

This God of Abraham certainly does not seem to have universal compassion for humans.

 

[Windwalker]

Put more correctly, Baha'is do not believe that Odin or Xenu are gods because we believe that there is only one true God.

So only one idea of God is the right one?

 

[Trailblazer]

So only one idea of God is the right one?

No, I said we believe that there is only one true God.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So only one idea of God is the right one?

There are many Names of God.

Man has also made God in his own image, so we must look for the Light. Many are the paths but narrow is the Gate.

Regards Tony

 

[Brian2]

Were you born into an Abrahamic religion? If yes, do you believe this background influenced your agreement with Bahai ideas?

On your question, I disagree because per my limited understanding, all Abrahamic beliefs come with exclusivity clauses. For instance, what is the fate of the idol worshipping Hindu - who believes in reincarnation? The pic below is of Muruga - a South Indian god.

Everyone is judged according to how they lived their life. (Matthew 25:31-40)

 

[loverofhumanity]

Bahais believe in God of Abraham. They believe God of abraham is the universal God. And that God has no spesific religion.

I agree with this,

Do you agree or disagree?

From the Words of Baha’u’llah:

There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Baha’is believe in all the major religions but not the added things like Shariah law, sacraments and conflicting interpretations. Baha’u’llah states that God is the ‘Lord of all religions’.

 

[joelr]

God is behind all religions. That is why I wrote God has no specific religion

Then why are the most important parts of Judaism, the commandments, focusing most heavily on no other Gods, no graven images, cannot take MY name in vein?
Why does Allah say that Christians and Jews are liars, doomed and must repent?
Why are so many religions using multiple Gods?
Why does the history of God start out with a warrior deity who is very angry and over centuries get Greek philosophy and theology added on by Aquinas, Agustine, Origen and so on....?

Kinda looks like there are no Gods and are just things made up in legends.

 

[PureX]

It is for man to have Faith in God, it is man that must embrace the Messengers and that is what becomes the Religion of the age.

"This religion ... manditory."

This age is the promise of all knowledge and with that knowledge, we will be able to become One under God. The prayer of many Christians is Thy Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven, This is basically praying for the Oneness of God, that humanity will unite under that Oneness. Muslims strive for this Oneness.

And yet, the demands of a "universal" religion divide us. Because we were not created to obey the dictates of men or man's religion. We were created to obey the dictates of the divine spirit within us. And religions were created supposedly to help us do that, ... if we so chose. So that when religions become our dictators, or they try to, many people resent it, and revolt, and turn away from that divine spirit within in anger and confusion. So that when religions try to become our dictators (our "unifiers"), they end up becoming the enemy of their own supposed purpose.

This is why I reject religion. But I do not reject the idea of God's spirit within us.

How else will it happen, if it is not by us embracing the Oneness of God? With that the athiest who also pursues the virtues, will also find peace, as that is the goal of our oneness.

By embracing that divine spirit within us, and within each other. And by rejecting that which seeks to overwhelm and disregard that spirit. As religion too often does.

 

[PureX]

It is possible for God to be abrahamic and universal at the same time

No, I don't think it is.

 

[Windwalker]

No, I said we believe that there is only one true God.

So you believe that only your idea of God is the true idea of God?

The fact that you said, "Baha'is do not believe that Odin or Xenu are gods because we believe that there is only one true God," you are denying that Odin or Xenu are that God you believe in, understood by others as Odin or Xenu to them. In other words, only your idea of God, is really what God is. And what they believe is not the same God understood by them differently from you. Is that correct?

So how is the God of the Baha'i Universal? How does it embrace all faith's understandings of God? You are denying the validity of Odin and Xenu.

 

[Windwalker]

There are many Names of God.

Man has also made God in his own image, so we must look for the Light. Many are the paths but narrow is the Gate.

Regards Tony

Do you deny the validity of Odin and Xenu? Do you believe that the Baha'is have the correct understanding of God, and all other understandings of God are only partial glimpses of what you believe in?

In other words, do you believe that your understanding is but one understanding like all other understandings? Put another way, do you believe any idea of God, is, or can be, the absolute truth of the Divine itself, and that the Baha'is understanding is partial and limited too just like theirs?

 

[Windwalker]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, @Windwalker .

While I find a certain elegance in the elephant metaphor, I don't agree with it. Why assume there is only one elephant in the first place? That's a very monotheist, or monist, assumption.

Do you believe that Hindus are monotheists or polytheists? The parable of the Blind Men and the Elephant, comes out of Hinduism, I believe.

Why not assume two? Or three? Or four? There isn't any particular reason to assume one over the other, when you get right down to it.

This is a very good question. But first, I think the challenge of that question is in the terms of theism itself, and the very word "God" itself. When someone says monotheism, as opposed to polytheism, it suggests to the mind we are speaking of deity forms, entities, or beings. The gods, in other words. Are there many such gods, or deities, or only one such God, a single being, or a single entity?

Does monotheism in its deepest understanding, separate the Divine from us as an entity? Is "God" in the monotheistic sense a being, a deity? Does God has a wrapper around it that defines it outside of creation and all its creatures, be those gross level or subtle level creatures? To most Christians I speak with, it does. They see God as external to themselves, in the way they might think of any of the gods as beings outside themselves.

I would think that a deeper understanding of monotheism would be in the ways the Hindus understand that all the gods, are expressions of that one single Divine Reality, or Brahman. It's the same with the Tao. It's the same with the Buddhists Emptiness, or Shunyata. And it can be the same in the Christian sense of "godhead", or Divine essence.

So then understanding that "God" is pointing to the Source of all that is, the Emptiness, or Void, or the Abyss, that all forms arise out from, that single Source embraces all that is, and is not separate from anything, including all the gods. Everything, including all the gods, humans, animals, plants, minerals, atoms, quarks, and strings, arises and have definition, form, and being, only in relation to the same Source.

That to me is monotheism. Not one god, versus many gods. Those are still gods, or deity forms apart from other forms. It is the difference between forms and formlessness itself.

The best analogy I can think of is the empty paper on which words are written. Without that fabric of reality itself, nothing can have existence. For anything to have existence, it has to be drawn upon "something", which is this case is not a thing at all, but no-thing. That is the same "emptiness", or blank paper, no matter what shape of form or meaning or being, or anything whatsoever we are talking about, that is part of every aspect of their existence. The words have the paper in every line and curve of their letters. Without it, they are not anything at all.

That is what I see as "God". Like the Hindus, we can have many gods, but only one Source, or Brahman, one Divine Reality. But even using the word "one" is wholly incorrect. It is not one as opposed to many. But it is both the One and the Many, and neither one, nor many. It is not an it. nor is it the all. It is, "Is'ness". And that is the same no matter what it is we are looking at, or experiencing. Hence "one" conveys "sameness". Unity within all diversity.

So finally, why one Source versus many sources? This is still tricky to explain. I believe in what the gods represent as aspects of reality, particularly as archetypal forms of what is in all of us. I would think of them as subtle-level ancestors in that sense. But with any of our own ancestors, they all share a common source at some point in deep history and time. They all share commonalities, such as existence and being itself.

The monotheists can tell the story how they want, yeah, but when there's insistence on that being the only way to tell the story - that there's just one elephant and if you disagree you're just wrong or mistaken - is annoying.

They are still thinking of the monotheist God as a being or an entity. Hence, only our entity is true entity. That is historical how monotheism began, with YHWH being the principle deity among the others, in a henotheistic way. Eventually, the others were not real entities, and there was only one entity, and so forth.

But the mystical realizations of that deity, saw behind and beyond that mask, or that form God takes to our minds, and God became truly universal, in the sense of Source, Ground of Being, Shunyata, Nirguna Brahman, and so forth.

But these are mystical realizations. Beliefs and ideas about God, do not capture that realization, as language and concepts separates God apart from ourselves and other things as a thing itself. But as the Hindus say, "Neti Neti", not this, not that, to remind us that it cannot be understood apart from anything else as a thing itself. It is not "a God". It is not "a" anything.

I can play those head games too and allege the worshipers of the one-god are "actually" worshiping many gods they mistake as one. I don't do that, because unlike the monotheists, polytheists don't have a habit of proselytizing.

In a sense you are right. They are seeing God as a god, just the right god. That's not any different than tribal gods at war with each other. "Our god is the best god". But rather than using clubs and spears, they use apologetics.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Bahais believe in God of Abraham. They believe God of abraham is the universal God. And that God has no spesific religion.

I agree with this,

Do you agree or disagree?

If the God of Abraham is indeed a 'Universal' God, would a 'Universal' God say this: " attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys " - Samuel 15 ?

This 'Universal' God seems full of hate for the Amalekites!

Again, in Jericho, which the Lord 'delivered' to Joshua, Joshua's army " devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys" - Joshua 6:21

Still sounds 'Universal'?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"This religion ... manditory."

God has and will never make it mandatory. Love, unity and peace is always the given purpose, but we are not compelled to embrace those Messages.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you deny the validity of Odin and Xenu? Do you believe that the Baha'is have the correct understanding of God, and all other understandings of God are only partial glimpses of what you believe in?

In other words, do you believe that your understanding is but one understanding like all other understandings? Put another way, do you believe any idea of God, is, or can be, the absolute truth of the Divine itself, and that the Baha'is understanding is partial and limited too just like theirs?

I beleive we all need to find our One God by embracing the light of God from no matter where it shines, which is all the virtues and morals we find in all the God given Scriptures.

Each person is to find that truth for their own selves and no one is better than another, as all are under the Bounty, Mercy, Grace, Justice and Forgiveness of our One God.

Regards Tony