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Banning ‘Woke’ Words in State Documents, Arkansas Governor Signs Executive Order

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Sports have always had a variety of various weight and qualification classes. I fail to see this as a serious issue worthy of broad social prescription to fix.

Some sports. Most actually don't. There's no such thing in tennis, for example. And even then it doesn't work. A man in the same weight category as a woman in a boxing match, is not a fair match up.

Nobody is asking you to pretend people other than those able to become pregnant can become pregnant.

Then why are we supposed to talk about "pregnant person" instead of "pregnant woman"?

You don't think the fact that this person was trans may have come out, at the absolutely, very latest during sex? You don't think that maybe, just maybe, trans people are open and honest about this stuff?

I'm sure some will and others won't. I don't really see how it matters to the point made in the hypothetical though.

Maybe the key to this is developing a society where, for many men, it would NOT feel like a deal-breaker? For instance, if they saw trans women as just as much a woman as anyone else, there wouldn't be an issue.

I don't think that's a possibility.
The turn-off here is not a sociological thing. It's a biological thing.


Then stop feeling like that, because it's not. We've understood gender as a social category for decades.

I'm not talking about gender. I'm talking about biology. Male / female. Man / woman.
I'm fine with the "gender" transwoman. Why must we redefine terms?

No, it's a woman.

I disagree. So do the biological facts.
If 200 years of now, the bones of this "woman" are dug up and tested, the conclusion will be "this was a man".


Okay. Let's say I always use the term "black person", and when someone asks me why I can never just call a black person a "person", I respond "What's wrong with calling them a black person? Why should I call them a person? I'm not going to pretend they're a person like everyone else, so I use the term 'black person'"."

That's a false equivalence imo.
For this analogy to work, you would have to demand that a black person is called a white person instead.
When talking about specific things that are unique to black people (and I can't really think of anything in particular btw), why would you not specify "black"?
Michael Jackson didn't magically become caucasian either eventhough his pigmentation changed.

Would you maybe think I had some form of prejudice underlying the way in which I was categorising black people, there?

Depends on context. But without further specifics, I'ld say no.

It's not pretending.
Disagree.

I have never once met a trans person who insists on being treated - medically - as BIOLOGICALLY their preferred gender. That's absurd. It doesn't happen.

So where do you draw the line?
We have to pretend in one area but not another?

Then get over it. The problem is clearly you.
Is it? I disagree.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
They don't have a womb and never had one.
Some women are born without them:

See: Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser (MRKH) Syndrome

"Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser syndrome (MRKH syndrome) is a rare congenital disorder that can affect women and people assigned female at birth (AFAB). It’s a condition that causes your vagina and uterus to be missing or underformed. In most cases, your ovaries and fallopian tubes function normally, and your external genitals are unaffected. This means you’ll have a lower vagina, a vaginal opening, labia (lips of your vagina), a clitoris and pubic hair. Your urethra is not affected by MRKH, so you can pee normally. In certain types of MRKH syndrome, organs like your kidneys and spine may also not form properly.

People typically discover they have MRKH syndrome during their teen years when they never have a menstrual period. This is because they don’t have a fully formed uterus and vagina. Other times, sexual intercourse is painful or impossible due to your vaginal canal being short and narrow.

Having an underdeveloped or missing uterus and vagina makes carrying a pregnancy impossible without medical help. However, if you have functioning ovaries and produce eggs, options like IVF (in vitro fertilization) and surrogacy may be an option. Talk to your healthcare providers about your desire for children so they can work with you on your options."



Biology can be messy.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
The fact that this seems to be your concern, that trans people are all somewhat either mentally ill or delusional, really speaks to what your fundamental issue is; you are unwilling to see trans people as just healthy, reasonable human beings.

Nope.

I have no issues at all with trans people, homosexual people, etc.
What I have problems with is how people these days demand society to walk on eggshells to cater to their emotional sensitivities.

Where I apparantly am an "offensive immoral douche" because I call a transwoman a transwoman instead of a woman and don't agree that a transwoman is an actual woman.

I get tired of all this bs where the entire world and their mothers feel offended by mere facts.

Grow some thicker skin and leave me the f alone.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Some sports. Most actually don't. There's no such thing in tennis, for example. And even then it doesn't work. A man in the same weight category as a woman in a boxing match, is not a fair match up.
I really don't care. I leave sporting categorisations up to sporting organisations who are better equipped to deal with it. I'm not going to use sports categories as an argument in favour of restrictive social prescriptions. It's a total non-issue in the broad scheme of the world.

Then why are we supposed to talk about "pregnant person" instead of "pregnant woman"?
Because it's more accurate. Both a man and a woman can be pregnant. You can still refer to a pregnant woman as a pregnant woman, and a pregnant man as a pregnant man. It's just that, broadly, to describe ALL pregnant people as "women" is inaccurate, for the same reason that describing the partners of ALL married men as "wives" is not accurate.

I'm sure some will and others won't. I don't really see how it matters to the point made in the hypothetical though.
Because your hypothetical doesn't take any ounce of reality into account. It's not really worth discussing because it's incapable of being mapped onto reality in any meaningful way. And, boiled down to it, your argument just seems to be "some men might be upset about being attracted to or forming relationships with trans women". Which just seems like a THEM problem, to be honest.

I don't think that's a possibility.
The turn-off here is not a sociological thing. It's a biological thing.
Then they can just be men who are not attracted to biological males. Where's the problem? I mean, clearly your hypothetical discounts that already considering they've already had sex, so I think it's safe to assume the individual in you hypothetical was NOT put off by their partner's biology, but by the DESIGNATION of them being trans. That's why it's absurd.

I'm not talking about gender. I'm talking about biology. Male / female. Man / woman.
I'm fine with the "gender" transwoman. Why must we redefine terms?
We aren't redefining them. They've always been social labels. They have never exclusively been used to refer to biology. You're the one making the confusion by insisting on hypotheticals in which a trans woman is somehow convinced that they have a womb. They don't tend to do that. Believe it or not, people who have penises tend to be aware that they have a penis.

I disagree. So do the biological facts.
There is no "biological facts" that ascribe the social category of "woman".

If 200 years of now, the bones of this "woman" are dug up and tested, the conclusion will be "this was a man".
What an absurd argument. They could dig up the bones and just say "this person was biologically male/female". Why should that imply a social prescription?

That's a false equivalence imo.
For this analogy to work, you would have to demand that a black person is called a white person instead.
No, now you're confused. The analogy is of YOUR rhetoric. It was a simple question about the implications of YOUR rhetoric.

When talking about specific things that are unique to black people (and I can't really think of anything in particular btw), why would you not specify "black"?
Why would you refuse to call a black person a person, and instead only ever refer to them as a "black person"?

What reason could you possibly have, pray tell?

Depends on context. But without further specifics, I'ld say no.
Then you'd be extremely silly. It's fairly obvious what the implication of the refusal to call a category of people "people" means.

Disagree.
Disagree all you want. You're the one pretending.

So where do you draw the line?
We have to pretend in one area but not another?
Pretend what? What are you pretending? What's the pretense?

Is it? I disagree.
It clearly is. Even your hypotheticals seem to imply that you believe trans people are engaging in either deception, pretence or some kind of mental illness/delusion.

If that's what you believe, then you are the problem. The vast majority of trans people are perfectly reasonable, healthy people.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Forcibly trying to bend reality to avoid possible negative connotations is dishonest, and does more harm than good.
We'd be better off if people play word police and fight against language changing and insist their limited and narrow understanding of things is the proper way to be would stop.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
How does anyone still believe that enough to puke it up when we factually know there are numerous variations?
If'n it ain't in the Bible, it ain't fact.
God said it. I believe it.

Can you believe that I'm actually quoting
something I've read on another forum?
No wonder Hubert Farnsworth doesn't
want to live on this planet anymore.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Nope.

I have no issues at all with trans people, homosexual people, etc.
Then perhaps adjust your perspective somewhat, because your posts are definitely contra-indicative.

What I have problems with is how people these days demand society to walk on eggshells to cater to their emotional sensitivities.
Again, you don't have to walk on eggshells. You just have to understand and acknowledge what medicine has understood and acknolwedged for decades. The fact that you seem to think a serious concern for trans issues being raised is trans women mistakenly believing they're having a miscarriage and clogging up hospitals really speaks to the fact that you haven't exactly made an effort to understand the facts of the issue.

Where I apparantly am an "offensive immoral douche" because I call a transwoman a transwoman instead of a woman and don't agree that a transwoman is an actual woman.
Except, what you define as an "actual woman" makes no sense, because you previously said that they had to have wombs and then acknowledged that they actually don't. It's almost as if you're using this "actual woman" category in the same way my analogy about "black people" uses the term "actual person". It's just an exclusionary category, used to deny other people access.

I get tired of all this bs where the entire world and their mothers feel offended by mere facts.
You haven't stated any facts. Your hypotheticals were laughable.

Grow some thicker skin and leave me the f alone.
Wow.

Well, we all can see who has the thick skin, here.
 

Secret Chief

Degrow!
This identifying malarkey has even crept into the church!

20231030_125718.jpg
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Can you believe that I'm actually quoting
something I've read on another forum?
I'm not sure if this is doing you one better or doing you one worse. I just don't find that easily believable, that's where I'm coming frim and partly why I call it a cult.
Here I've read a member sharing a former belief of mine, which is that it's wrong to know multiple languages because god doesn't want us communicating with others like that because he confused the languages as a punishment (Tower if Babel) so we shouldn't undue that punishment and go against it.
Glaubst es oder nicht.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I'm not sure if this is doing you one better or doing you one worse. I just don't find that easily believable, that's where I'm coming frim and partly why I call it a cult.
Here I've read a member sharing a former belief of mine, which is that it's wrong to know multiple languages because god doesn't want us communicating with others like that because he confused the languages as a punishment (Tower if Babel) so we shouldn't undue that punishment and go against it.
Glaubst es oder nicht.
It fits right in with other things
I've heard from fundies.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I suggest honestly trying to understand
people who are different from you.
I suggest you stick to the point - and stop with your sneaky, trying-to-get-in-thru-the-side-door insults.

I suggest that YOU try to empathize with women who have every right to be spared the sight of male genetalia when they're in spaces designed to be safe and private for women.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I fail to see this as a serious issue worthy of broad social prescription to fix.
Tell that to women in sports. This sort of self-centered, virtue signalling response is really beyond the pale.

"Those women, who do they think they are!" - ugh, you should be ashamed of yourself.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Some women are born without them:

And yet you call them women anyway.

I don't think the exceptions and genetic syndroms / deformities / anomalies change the overall facts.

In this case, it's safe to say that something went wrong.
Why would we define the general facts in terms of the exceptions where things go "wrong"?

Biology can be messy.

Indeed. For example. Humans have 46 chromosomes. This is a general fact.
Someone with down syndrom however has 47. That doesn't make them non-human. Nore should we alter the general facts regarding chromosomes in humans due to the genetic anomaly of down syndrom.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Your absurdity is an invented one.
Something that doesn't happen isn't
worth addressing in public policy.

It's still rare, but it is happening - you ought to broaden your information gathering process a bit.

So, once you see that it IS happening (and no, I'm not your news source), then you'll probably say - "well, it's rare, it's okay if it only happens a little".

So then my question will be to you: What's your cutoff point? At what point does it become too frequent?
 
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