Baptism: Symbolic or Transformative?

[Eddi]

This is in Same Faith Debates - so Christians only please!

There is something I've been pondering lately:

Is baptism a symbolic act or a transformative act?

Is it a symbol of one coming to Christ or does it actually somehow make one come to Christ?

I think "in-Christ" is the term...

Or is it somehow both???

I suppose that deciding to get baptised (or considering it as an option) means you've come to Christ???

And that the ceremony is for the benefit of other people?

For me, I consider the date of my baptism to be the date on which I started being a Christian although I identified as such before my baptism

I have no idea at what point God started considering me a Christian

I see baptism as a means of accepting that Jesus died for my sins so that I may be forgiven

But I think that simply saying The Sinners Prayer can make this happen, if you mean it:

Sinner's prayer - Wikipedia

Here is a heavily redacted pic of my own baptism:



I was thinking: perhaps it can be either, depending on how one imagines it?

I see my own baptism as being a public declaration of faith and I certainly had faith before that

So I see it as more of a statement

But to me it was the start of a new chapter in my life

Although along my Christian journey I have had a couple of blips, but have always come back!

 

[Eddi]

I've voted "symbolic" as I believe I was a Christian before then, but not properly Christian!

 

[metis]

Essentially, to put it another way, is the Holy Spirit involved when one gets baptized, yes or no? If the Spirit is, then it's more than just being symbolic.

But since I cannot track the whereabouts of the Spirit, I can't answer the OP question.

 

[Eddi]

Essentially, to put it another way, is the Holy Spirit involved when one gets baptized, yes or no? If the Spirit is, then it's more than just being symbolic.

Good thinking

 

[metis]

Good thinking

Thanks, but enjoy because even a blind chicken like me gets a worm every once in a while.

 

[pearl]

While the elements used have symbolic value as signs, the payers are transformative.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

It is interesting that we get many beliefs and opinions but no one goes to the Bible for answers. Acts 2:30 tells us that one must repent and be baptized for the remission of sin and yu will receive the Holy Spirit. If you did not repent, then it was just a symbol. If you truly repents then you received the Holy Spirit and it was transformative. See how easy when you go to the Bible instead of you own thoughts and ideas.

 

[metis]

It is interesting that we get many beliefs and opinions but no one goes to the Bible for answers. Acts 2:30 tells us that one must repent and be baptized for the remission of sin and yu will receive the Holy Spirit. If you did not repent, then it was just a symbol. If you truly repents then you received the Holy Spirit and it was transformative. See how easy when you go to the Bible instead of you own thoughts and ideas.

My answer was from the Bible even though I didn't feel the need to quote any verse as I felt it should be obvious.

Look at my signature statement at the bottom of my posts and what do you see? What does that stand for?

 

[Kenny]

I

This is in Same Faith Debates - so Christians only please!

There is something I've been pondering lately:

Is baptism a symbolic act or a transformative act?

Is it a symbol of one coming to Christ or does it actually somehow make one come to Christ?

I think "in-Christ" is the term...

Or is it somehow both???

I suppose that deciding to get baptised (or considering it as an option) means you've come to Christ???

And that the ceremony is for the benefit of other people?

For me, I consider the date of my baptism to be the date on which I started being a Christian although I identified as such before my baptism

I have no idea at what point God started considering me a Christian

I see baptism as a means of accepting that Jesus died for my sins so that I may be forgiven

But I think that simply saying The Sinners Prayer can make this happen, if you mean it:

Sinner's prayer - Wikipedia

Here is a heavily redacted pic of my own baptism:

View attachment 54514

I was thinking: perhaps it can be either, depending on how one imagines it?

I see my own baptism as being a public declaration of faith and I certainly had faith before that

So I see it as more of a statement

But to me it was the start of a new chapter in my life

Although along my Christian journey I have had a couple of blips, but have always come back!

I voted for both...

As you said, my own baptism was a public declaration of faith and we certainly had faith before that. I see it more as a statement. And certainly it is a symbol of the old man dying and being raised up as a new creature.

I believe it also has a transformative power because every time we are obedient to what God asks us to do, it transforms us. Faith working in conjunction with the works of "obedience".

However, I believe that it is a separate act from the actual act of having been born-again. Even as you showed us a redacted picture of something that already happen, I see baptism as a visible picture of something that already happened in the spiritual realm. Although it can be at the same moment it doesn't necessarily mean that - it can be two separate events.

It was in my case.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[metis]

I

I voted for both...

As you said, my own baptism was a public declaration of faith and we certainly had faith before that. I see it more as a statement. And certainly it is a symbol of the old man dying and being raised up as a new creature.

I believe it also has a transformative power because every time we are obedient to what God asks us to do, it transforms us. Faith working in conjunction with the works of "obedience".

However, I believe that it is a separate act from the actual act of having been born-again. Even as you showed us a redacted picture of something that already happen, I see baptism as a visible picture of something that already happened in the spiritual realm. Although it can be at the same moment it doesn't necessarily mean that - it can be two separate events.

It was in my case.

Thank you for sharing.

Is it true the minister tried to hold you under?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

My answer was from the Bible even though I didn't feel the need to quote any verse as I felt it should be obvious.

Look at my signature statement at the bottom of my posts and what do you see? What does that stand for?

Thank you metis and I respect your views. I was not posting specifically about anything you said. It was just my opinion about the subject.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

This is in Same Faith Debates - so Christians only please!

There is something I've been pondering lately:

Is baptism a symbolic act or a transformative act?

Is it a symbol of one coming to Christ or does it actually somehow make one come to Christ?

I think "in-Christ" is the term...

Or is it somehow both???

I suppose that deciding to get baptised (or considering it as an option) means you've come to Christ???

And that the ceremony is for the benefit of other people?

For me, I consider the date of my baptism to be the date on which I started being a Christian although I identified as such before my baptism

I have no idea at what point God started considering me a Christian

I see baptism as a means of accepting that Jesus died for my sins so that I may be forgiven

But I think that simply saying The Sinners Prayer can make this happen, if you mean it:

Sinner's prayer - Wikipedia

Here is a heavily redacted pic of my own baptism:

View attachment 54514

I was thinking: perhaps it can be either, depending on how one imagines it?

I see my own baptism as being a public declaration of faith and I certainly had faith before that

So I see it as more of a statement

But to me it was the start of a new chapter in my life

Although along my Christian journey I have had a couple of blips, but have always come back!

Don’t take my comment too seriously, but I kinda disagree with your take.

 

[Kenny]

Is it true the minister tried to hold you under?

LOL... I told him that my wallet needed to be baptized into a new creature... needed some life in it.

 

[metis]

Thank you metis and I respect your views. I was not posting specifically about anything you said. It was just my opinion about the subject.

No worries, so thanks for the above.

 

[metis]

LOL... I told him that my wallet needed to be baptized into a new creature... needed some life in it.

I've heard that your wife says you need some new life into one of your body parts but I can't remember which one?

 

[e.r.m.]

This is in Same Faith Debates - so Christians only please!

There is something I've been pondering lately:

Is baptism a symbolic act or a transformative act?

Is it a symbol of one coming to Christ or does it actually somehow make one come to Christ?

I think "in-Christ" is the term...

Or is it somehow both???

I suppose that deciding to get baptised (or considering it as an option) means you've come to Christ???

And that the ceremony is for the benefit of other people?

For me, I consider the date of my baptism to be the date on which I started being a Christian although I identified as such before my baptism

I have no idea at what point God started considering me a Christian

I see baptism as a means of accepting that Jesus died for my sins so that I may be forgiven

But I think that simply saying The Sinners Prayer can make this happen, if you mean it:

Sinner's prayer - Wikipedia

Here is a heavily redacted pic of my own baptism:

View attachment 54514

I was thinking: perhaps it can be either, depending on how one imagines it?

I see my own baptism as being a public declaration of faith and I certainly had faith before that

So I see it as more of a statement

But to me it was the start of a new chapter in my life

Although along my Christian journey I have had a couple of blips, but have always come back!

To find this answer, one looks in the Bible
"I see baptism as a means of accepting that Jesus died for my sins so that I may be forgiven"
There are verses for that statement.

Acts 2:38-39 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [39] For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

Romans 6:5-7 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, [6] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; [7] for he who has died is freed from sin.

1 Peter 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


"I see my own baptism as being a public declaration of faith"

There are no verses in the Bible that speak of baptism as being a public declaration of faith and there is a passage that speaks against it

Acts 9:18-21 And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized; [19] and he took food and was strengthened. Now for several days he was with the disciples who were at Damascus, [20] and immediately he began to proclaim Jesus in the synagogues, saying, "He is the Son of God." [21] All those hearing him continued to be amazed, and were saying, "Is this not he who in Jerusalem destroyed those who called on this name, and who had come here for the purpose of bringing them bound before the chief priests?"

The people found out about Saul's conversion through his preaching, not his baptism.
Baptism's purpose was not a declaration in the Bible.

In addition, the idea of a person doing something to symbolize their salvation after they're saved is non-existent in the Bible. People in the Bible went straight from being saved to preaching and living the life, with nothing in between.

The ideas of baptism done as a declaration or as merely a symbolic gesture, began later as man-made traditions. They have nothing to do with "Biblical" Christianity. If a church teaches people to be baptized for the purpose of a declaration, they have turned their back on the Bible and are giving their own teaching.


"and I certainly had faith before that"

One is not expected to baptize someone who doesn't first believe in Jesus
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Acts 8:36-38 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?" [37] [And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."] [38] And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

It is interesting that we get many beliefs and opinions but no one goes to the Bible for answers. Acts 2:30 tells us that one must repent and be baptized for the remission of sin and yu will receive the Holy Spirit. If you did not repent, then it was just a symbol. If you truly repents then you received the Holy Spirit and it was transformative. See how easy when you go to the Bible instead of you own thoughts and ideas.

Acts 2:38 lets us know that when we are baptized in the name of the one who shed the blood, it's purpose is for the forgiveness of sins. (see also Acts 22:16) Water baptism in the name is how the blood is applied. But receiving the Holy Spirit is a different baptism. As can be seen from passages like Acts 8:12-16 and Acts 10:43-48 and Acts 19:5-6

 

[Bree]

This is in Same Faith Debates - so Christians only please!

There is something I've been pondering lately:

Is baptism a symbolic act or a transformative act?

Is it a symbol of one coming to Christ or does it actually somehow make one come to Christ?

I think "in-Christ" is the term...

Or is it somehow both???

I suppose that deciding to get baptised (or considering it as an option) means you've come to Christ???

And that the ceremony is for the benefit of other people?

For me, I consider the date of my baptism to be the date on which I started being a Christian although I identified as such before my baptism

I have no idea at what point God started considering me a Christian

I see baptism as a means of accepting that Jesus died for my sins so that I may be forgiven

But I think that simply saying The Sinners Prayer can make this happen, if you mean it:

Sinner's prayer - Wikipedia

Here is a heavily redacted pic of my own baptism:

View attachment 54514

I was thinking: perhaps it can be either, depending on how one imagines it?

I see my own baptism as being a public declaration of faith and I certainly had faith before that

So I see it as more of a statement

But to me it was the start of a new chapter in my life

Although along my Christian journey I have had a couple of blips, but have always come back!

Baptism should be a symbol the transformation you've ALREADY made in your life.

Repentence comes before baptism. Repentence is a turning away from wrongdoing.