Bar Mitzvahs Requiring Second Mortgages and other blowouts

[jbg]

I know, I know I make a big deal about people that criticize consumption and having fun, this is over the line, see It’s a Toddler’s Party. How About a $75,000 Budget? Same with over-the-top weddings and Bar/Bat Mitzvahs, some requiring second mortgages. I'll admit to being a bit of a hypocrit; our older son's Bar Mitzvah wasn't a blowout but i wasn't totally frugal.

I think many of these events are designed to "keep up with the Joneses" or the Kardashians. This article, in this morning's paper did set me off. How does a six-year old even appreciate this?

Now granted, this is not solely an upper-class or upper middle class problem. About twelve or so years ago, in late November, I was in a Walmart in White Plains picking up a birthday gift for my wife. There was a woman pushing a cart heaping with gifts, surrounded by a number of children. I could sense that she could not afford what she was buying.

While my specialty in law was corporate and not personal bankruptcy I know that many people spend three or more years paying for one holiday season and the seasons keep on coming. People should really think twice before destroying any chance at solvency or advancement by buying gifts that will be used, maybe, for the balance of the Christmas vacation.

I do not think people should ruin their finances for one day of "fun."

 

[MikeF]

I know, I know I make a big deal about people that criticize consumption and having fun, this is over the line, see It’s a Toddler’s Party. How About a $75,000 Budget? Same with over-the-top weddings and Bar/Bat Mitzvahs, some requiring second mortgages. I'll admit to being a bit of a hypocrit; our older son's Bar Mitzvah wasn't a blowout but i wasn't totally frugal.

I think many of these events are designed to "keep up with the Joneses" or the Kardashians. This article, in this morning's paper did set me off. How does a six-year old even appreciate this?

Now granted, this is not solely an upper-class or upper middle class problem. About twelve or so years ago, in late November, I was in a Walmart in White Plains picking up a birthday gift for my wife. There was a woman pushing a cart heaping with gifts, surrounded by a number of children. I could sense that she could not afford what she was buying.

While my specialty in law was corporate and not personal bankruptcy I know that many people spend three or more years paying for one holiday season and the seasons keep on coming. People should really think twice before destroying any chance at solvency or advancement by buying gifts that will be used, maybe, for the balance of the Christmas vacation.

I do not think people should ruin their finances for one day of "fun."

I think "Should people ruin their lives by going into large debt to have one day of fun?", is a different question than, "Should people spend a ton of money on a party?"

If your question is solely the first, then I would say no, people shouldn't spend irresponsibly, in whatever form. However, I don't think we should legislate what an appropriate cost should be for a party.

If your intent in the OP is to suggest no one should be permitted to spend lavishly on a party, even if they can afford it, then I would disagree and say folks can do whatever they want with their money. Do you find this a concern because you fear it creates social pressure for people to spend lavishly against their better judgment or personal preference?

 

[Brickjectivity]

I do not think people should ruin their finances for one day of "fun."

My reason for voting "Let the good times roll" is first of all that parties serve a function that nothing else can, and secondly they tend to be self regulating in my experience. That may not be true in some places where there is social, family, business or even government pressure to blow away lots of money. In some places perhaps people are expected to take out a mortgage for a wedding reception, and if that is common then I can understand government wanting to step in. I don't think its ideal for government to get involved, but if people are shopping off their own feet then I can understand government getting involved.

But suppose that government involvement came in a different form such as providing venues for such occasions? What about government photographers?

 

[jbg]

I think "Should people ruin their lives by going into large debt to have one day of fun?", is a different question than, "Should people spend a ton of money on a party?"

If your question is solely the first, then I would say no, people shouldn't spend irresponsibly, in whatever form. However, I don't think we should legislate what an appropriate cost should be for a party.

If your intent in the OP is to suggest no one should be permitted to spend lavishly on a party, even if they can afford it, then I would disagree and say folks can do whatever they want with their money. Do you find this a concern because you fear it creates social pressure for people to spend lavishly against their better judgment or personal preference?

My thinking is that schools or religious institutions that sponsor the underlying event should raise the issue of social pressure.

 

[MikeF]

My thinking is that schools or religious institutions that sponsor the underlying event should raise the issue of social pressure.

I suppose it's within the purview of a religious institution. There is some expectation that they will weigh in on how one is to go about their business. I wouldn't think the same applies to schools.

 

[JustGeorge]

What other people spend on their parties is none of my business. However, I reserve the right to shake my head somewhere in the background.

Now granted, this is not solely an upper-class or upper middle class problem. About twelve or so years ago, in late November, I was in a Walmart in White Plains picking up a birthday gift for my wife. There was a woman pushing a cart heaping with gifts, surrounded by a number of children. I could sense that she could not afford what she was buying.

I can relate. Last Christmas, we decided our family was opting out of gifts. We're not wealthy, we don't even observe Christmas, and life is crazy in our household, making shopping on a normal day unpleasant, let alone extra. Figured we'd just bring our potluck dish and enjoy the company.

We were not allowed not to bring gifts. Other people offered to give us money so we could purchase gifts, even. Rude comments were made towards a few of those who wanted to opt out in the future(the discussion came up). Not blowing money on the Winter Holidays in my family is simply not allowed, apparently.

I really, really hate it. Yes, its a pressure to 'keep up with the Jones's' and to have beautiful picture to share on social media of all the hundreds of gifts.

 

[jbg]

I can relate. Last Christmas, we decided our family was opting out of gifts. We're not wealthy, we don't even observe Christmas, and life is crazy in our household, making shopping on a normal day unpleasant, let alone extra. Figured we'd just bring our potluck dish and enjoy the company.

We were not allowed not to bring gifts. Other people offered to give us money so we could purchase gifts, even. Rude comments were made towards a few of those who wanted to opt out in the future(the discussion came up). Not blowing money on the Winter Holidays in my family is simply not allowed, apparently.

The bolded is really really rude.

I really, really hate it. Yes, its a pressure to 'keep up with the Jones's' and to have beautiful picture to share on social media of all the hundreds of gifts.

Also a lot of gifts are impractical and unused. OTOH I have on my shelf a record album, Anticipation by Carly Simon and another one Concert for BanglaDesh, both of which I got in holiday season 1971. I still listen to both. We gave our older son a bicycle after he returned from Europe in August 2012. He's 27 now and still uses it, as does his 25 year old brother.

 

[JustGeorge]

The bolded is really really rude.

It was.

Also a lot of gifts are impractical and unused. OTOH I have on my shelf a record album, Anticipation by Carly Simon and another one Concert for BanglaDesh, both of which I got in holiday season 1971. I still listen to both. We gave our older son a bicycle after he returned from Europe in August 2012. He's 27 now and still uses it, as does his 25 year old brother.

I agree. That was another reason I wanted to withdraw from the gifts. My kids might get 15 presents, and use 4 past the first week they get them. It just seems like a terrible waste.