Based on the premise that thoughts are spirit not substance

[Gjallarhorn]

This is reasonable. Thanks for sharing. See how at the molecular level "small groups bond together, which then bond together some more". People cannot do that yet. I have a feeling they don't even care to try.

Of course they do. No group is isolated (unless physically). What do you think the internet is?

 

[savagewind]

Of course they do. No group is isolated (unless physically). What do you think the internet is?

OK. The internet is a start. But remember we are talking about bonds. I have found more bashing (not on this forum) on the internet than anything resembling bonds of peace. Cells get along in some type of peaceful arrangement and work together for the wellness of the organism. Let's call people cells and Earth organism. It is not happening, is it? There are signs of it. Yes. But that means there is more than one. Some cells for peace dwelling with cells that are for destruction. I do not think that black against white which cannot make grey is working. People tend to disagree much more than agree. That is a fact. But the smallest particles that have no mind tend to agree. I am not talking about cancer.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

People tend to disagree much more than agree. That is a fact.

Facts are supported by evidence. You're giving me a sermon.

But the smallest particles that have no mind tend to agree. I am not talking about cancer.

Actually, you are. You're talking about the interplay of cells and molecules, ultimately involving cancer.

 

[savagewind]

Facts are supported by evidence. You're giving me a sermon.

I have no idea what this means.

The smallest bits of matter are attracted to each other.
People are repelled by each other. I cannot believe someone who will say "prove it" has any business arguing anything. I do not have to prove that a fussy person is repelled by a dirty one. Or that a rich person is repelled by a poor one. Or that a white one is repelled by a black one. Or that a fundamental Christian is repelled by a practicer of magic. Or that a good looking person is repelled by an ugly one. People do not have a natural affinity for other people like the affinity that exists in the elementary level.

 

[idav]

I have no idea what this means.

The smallest bits of matter are attracted to each other.
People are repelled by each other. I cannot believe someone who will say "prove it" has any business arguing anything. I do not have to prove that a fussy person is repelled by a dirty one. Or that a rich person is repelled by a poor one. Or that a white one is repelled by a black one. Or that a fundamental Christian is repelled by a practicer of magic. Or that a good looking person is repelled by an ugly one. People do not have a natural affinity for other people like the affinity that exists in the elementary level.

Cells are mindless for the most part. Animals get along when it suits them. Few animals can actually handle being alone.

 

[savagewind]

Cells are mindless for the most part. Animals get along when it suits them. Few animals can actually handle being alone.

Thanks for answering. What you say is true imo.

I am reminded to answer their criticism that I am comparing two things with nothing in common. But the mind (which I agree for now need a brain in humans) and cells do have something in common. Life. How small do we have to look before life becomes non life? I think we don't know. Life of the smallest scale is "smarter" than life of the largest scale, which is us.

 

[Anatta]

Thanks for answering. What you say is true imo.

I am reminded to answer their criticism that I am comparing two things with nothing in common. But the mind (which I agree for now need a brain in humans) and cells do have something in common. Life. How small do we have to look before life becomes non life? I think we don't know. Life of the smallest scale is "smarter" than life of the largest scale, which is us.

Before I answer, I would just like to say that this thread has been a truly fascinating read.

savagewind, you seem to be trying to say that the natural arrangement of the universe is somehow more rational and productive than human thought and behavior. As has been pointed out, you are comparing apples to oranges. At quantum and molecular levels, things are arranged according to probability, which is mathematical. Human thoughts and actions are not like that, they rely on complex symbolic structures like language which are always adapting to changing conditions, like what we might consider "smart" at the moment.

It seems very strange to me to try to use a word like "smart" to compare these, because I don't understand how strands of protein can be "smart". If they malfunction, causing disease, does that make them dumb? If they cause a beneficial mutation which better adapts an animal to its world, are they smart? I just don't get how you'd apply the term.

I also don't understand your assertion that world peace would be the human-behavior equivalent of the harmony you see in nature. First, where is the harmony in nature? The fuel in your car is a result of natural disasters which wiped out life on a grand, cataclysmic scale. Secondly, how do you know that a perpetual state of war is not the natural way for humans to be?

 

[Ouroboros]

The smallest bits of matter are attracted to each other.

Except for the small bits of matter that do the opposite (same charge), or the ones that annihilate each other into pure energy (antimatter).

Lesson of life. There exist all kinds.

 

[savagewind]

Before I answer, I would just like to say that this thread has been a truly fascinating read.

savagewind, you seem to be trying to say that the natural arrangement of the universe is somehow more rational and productive than human thought and behavior. As has been pointed out, you are comparing apples to oranges. At quantum and molecular levels, things are arranged according to probability, which is mathematical. Human thoughts and actions are not like that, they rely on complex symbolic structures like language which are always adapting to changing conditions, like what we might consider "smart" at the moment.

It seems very strange to me to try to use a word like "smart" to compare these, because I don't understand how strands of protein can be "smart". If they malfunction, causing disease, does that make them dumb? If they cause a beneficial mutation which better adapts an animal to its world, are they smart? I just don't get how you'd apply the term.

I also don't understand your assertion that world peace would be the human-behavior equivalent of the harmony you see in nature. First, where is the harmony in nature? The fuel in your car is a result of natural disasters which wiped out life on a grand, cataclysmic scale. Secondly, how do you know that a perpetual state of war is not the natural way for humans to be?

A perpetual state of war has proved to be the natural way of humans. BUT it is not "smart" as the Earth WILL rebel because it is able. Humans have proved unable. Matter is proving able. I just think it is amazing. It is amazing that dumb matter is more able than smart matter.

And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you Leviticus 18:28

Now sir, THAT is preaching.

 

[savagewind]

I'm not talking to you

 

[Ouroboros]

I'm not talking to you

Was that directed to me?

 

[savagewind]

Was that directed to me?

LOL.. I think so.

Thanks for the extra oxygen. It is much appreciated!

Good night and God bless!

 

[Ouroboros]

LOL.. I think so.

Yeah. I'm not much to talk to anyway.

Good night and God bless!

Good night to you too, even though it's morning here now.

 

[idav]

A perpetual state of war has proved to be the natural way of humans. BUT it is not "smart" as the Earth WILL rebel because it is able. Humans have proved unable. Matter is proving able. I just think it is amazing. It is amazing that dumb matter is more able than smart matter.

And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you Leviticus 18:28

Now sir, THAT is preaching.

War is the natural state of life as well as matter. With life it fights to survive as life perpetually feeds on life. "Dumb" matter does the same in the form of energy power struggles throughout the universe. The distinction is illusory as life is made up of matter and energy and matter/energy doesn't have intent as far as we can tell.

 

[Me Myself]

Please give me a definition of program that does not require a "plan of action".
Thoughts are not planned. They spring up with no plan at all.

You dont now if. They were planned. Maybe God olanned them all before they appeared.

In any case, thougths are the way we percieve the chemical reacitons on our brains.

 

[savagewind]

You dont now if. They were planned. Maybe God olanned them all before they appeared.

In any case, thougths are the way we percieve the chemical reacitons on our brains.

LOL. Maybe some thoughts are planned by God. OK. I am sure as can be not ALL thoughts are planned by God. Saying so is saying it is God who thinks up terror.

 

[Me Myself]

LOL. Maybe some thoughts are planned by God. OK. I am sure as can be not ALL thoughts are planned by God. Saying so is saying it is God who thinks up terror.

If god is omnipotent, then definetely all that happens was made to be so by him.

 

[savagewind]

If god is omnipotent, then definetely all that happens was made to be so by him.

That is blasphemy.

Mark 3:22 "He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons." ..... Was it God who put it in their minds to call 'Jesus' Beelzebub?

Luke 11:29 As the crowds increased, Jesus said, "This is a wicked generation. It asks for a sign".... Was it God who put it in their head to look for a sign?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

That is blasphemy.

Mark 3:22 "He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons." ..... Was it God who put it in their minds to call 'Jesus' Beelzebub?

Luke 11:29 As the crowds increased, Jesus said, "This is a wicked generation. It asks for a sign".... Was it God who put it in their head to look for a sign?

"But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses."

 

[Me Myself]

That is blasphemy.

Mark 3:22 "He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons." ..... Was it God who put it in their minds to call 'Jesus' Beelzebub?

Luke 11:29 As the crowds increased, Jesus said, "This is a wicked generation. It asks for a sign".... Was it God who put it in their head to look for a sign?

Hey, its cool, if you dont want to think of him as omnipotent, that is you.

Either he wanted our behaviour to be how it is or didnt want it but couldnt help the mistake.

I can quote you God lying the bible though.