Because they know not what they do...............

[michel]

I hope you will forgive me Lilithu, if I reproduce something you said on another thread. it is a point I think of often, when thinking of the Christian perspective. It is also a point I find hard to put into practice............

The danger with mixing Judaism and Christianity in UU is that Judaism is based on justice (as is Islam) and Christianity is based on love. We'd like to think those two go hand in hand but sometimes they conflict. When someone does something incredibly unjust and is unrepentant, which one wins out in our UU tradition - justice or love? Even as I type this I am thinking that they both must win, we cannot lose either of them, but I think we have yet to define how they both fit in our system. All talk of heaven asside, I feel that Ballou's treatise erred on the side of love, making it so that no matter what anyone does, everyone is still equal. What I am asking is, how do we justify this line of thinking in light of genocides and outrageous apathy?

When I pray, and meditate, I always make a point of thanking the Good Lord for the 'Daily bread' that he gives us, each day; of course, that is shorthand, for clothing, food, water, wind, sun, rain - every part of the wonderfully intricate and beautiful nature of Mother Earth.

As with Children, I feel we are sometimes too quick to lay blame "Oh why did God let the earthquake in Pakistan happen ? Why Hurricane Katrina ? - and yet, we forget to say 'Thank you God' for all the things that we take for granted, in our everyday lives.

That leads me to the nee to pray for those in peril, for the poor, the hungry, the sick and needy - anyone whose life is an uphill struggle......unfortunately, there are many of those..

Then comes the prayer for God to give wisdom to those who Head nations, to those who dictate the lives of others....which very soon leads to the thought that some for which I am praying are corrupt; they abuse their position and power to bleed their countries dry, while their people struggle in mud............

Which is the point you make Lilithu -

The danger with mixing Judaism and Christianity in UU is that Judaism is based on justice (as is Islam) and Christianity is based on love

How do we treat the Hitlers ? - do we pray for them to receive enlightenment, do we ask for God to forgive them - "because they know not what they do" ? - even if they do know, is that a reason not to pray for them ?:shout

 

[Quiddity]

Left to one's own faculties I find it difficult to see just how one balances this out. Some focus more on Love and others focus more on justice. What you focus on can have detrimental affects on how you see/interpret things around you. Especially the Bible.

To Love is to be just. To be just could mean that you may not agree with God.

~Victor

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Jesus had no problem with Romans or Justice.
The law of the land is administered by Justice. The nazi war criminals were rightly tried in court, as are criminals of all kinds today. This is mans Law in action.

When God's laws seem to be broken. God is the only one competent to Judge.

Like Jesus Said we should love our enemies which is always true. This does not mean lawbreakers should not be punished in human courts.
We should be very careful that we administer mans law, and leave Gods law to God. He needs absolutely no help.

Terry_____________________


Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[michel]

Jesus had no problem with Romans or Justice.
The law of the land is administered by Justice. The nazi war criminals were rightly tried in court, as are criminals of all kinds today. This is mans Law in action.

When God's laws seem to be broken. God is the only one competent to Judge.

Like Jesus Said we should love our enemies which is always true. This does not mean lawbreakers should not be punished in human courts.
We should be very careful that we administer mans law, and leave Gods law to God. He needs absolutely no help.

Terry_____________________


Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

So where does man's justice end, and God's begin ?

 

[Darkdale]

So where does man's justice end, and God's begin ?

I don't really know, but I guess once god sends your butt to hell to suffer fire and misery for all of eternity, that's where his justice is truly felt.

 

[ChrisP]

Man's justice should end where he does (individually). Judgement outside of your own lives requires imposition of our own standards. In some cases where there are clear breaches of other peoples right to live/worship as they choose, intervention is unfortunately necessary to maintain spiritual rights.

I'm sure most here will agree the spirit to be the most important part of man, it's a shame our laws only reflect this as a right to worship as we choose.

God's Judgement begins anywhere you choose. He oversees all.