Beef and Hinduism

[bhaktajan]

Why not look into it

THIS IS A VERY BENEFICIAL TOPIC.

I am upto here with Historical Facts that substantiate the lessons of the Human Condition.

I can be charitable while demanding a standard of excellence to.

Official Hinduism is surrounded by billions of National patriots ---they aint all high class anything.

If the OP was Health and Alchoholism.

The purpose would be to speak to the problems caused by drinking.
Any exception to the rule is simply a diversion from the beneficial topic

 

[Don Penguinoini]

What about bread you get in the store. There are many things that have hidden eggs in them. After I got married and had a kid I now also eat hidden eggs. It is just in so many things. If you buy a sandwich at a shop you are eating eggs. All baked goods like cookies, breads, cakes, many types of fake meats have eggs in them. You must buy your baked goods and pastas at a health food store to get away from eggs.

I get my food from a supermarket, and I thoroughly check all the ingredients before I eat.

I do eat cookies. I am not that fun.

 

[Jacksnyte]

THIS IS A VERY BENEFICIAL TOPIC.

I am upto here with Historical Facts that substantiate the lessons of the Human Condition.

I can be charitable while demanding a standard of excellence to.

Official Hinduism is surrounded by billions of National patriots ---they aint all high class anything.

If the OP was Health and Alchoholism.

The purpose would be to speak to the problems caused by drinking.
Any exception to the rule is simply a diversion from the beneficial topic

Not all that much of an exception to the rule. More of just one example. I could find others, but so could you if you bothered to look. My point was that exclusion of beef from ones diet isn't necessarily included in the path of all Hindus, and this does not invalidate that path.
Oh, and by the way, what exactly is "official" Hinduism?

 

[zenzero]

Friend satsangi,

Kindly explain if eating beef makes a human, some other form??
besides every human is a follower of dharma that is eternal or the laws of existence.
Existence is all about ONE energy which is sub-divided into so many forms and no-forms which too are nothing but energy.
Eating is nothing but transformation of energy. The net result remains the same except change in form.
A cow was not a cow in his last birth and may not be born a cow in his next. A human was not human in his last birth and may not be a human in his next.
Evolution is the change of forms of that one energy.

Love & rgds

 

[Satsangi]

Friend satsangi,

Kindly explain if eating beef makes a human, some other form??
besides every human is a follower of dharma that is eternal or the laws of existence.
Existence is all about ONE energy which is sub-divided into so many forms and no-forms which too are nothing but energy.
Eating is nothing but transformation of energy. The net result remains the same except change in form.
A cow was not a cow in his last birth and may not be born a cow in his next. A human was not human in his last birth and may not be a human in his next.
Evolution is the change of forms of that one energy.

Love & rgds

Friend Zenzero,

Kindly show me one human who consumes alcohol and/or cocaine and the mind does not get affected by it. Each and every thing that one consumes through any Indriyas (eyes, mouth, nose, skin, ears) has an effect on the gunas in the body because each and every "food" has its own inherent qualities.

Consuming meat which is considered a rajasic food due to all the hormones realeased in the blood and tissues when the animal is killed is more than likely to have an effect on the one who consumes it. It does not make them "not human" but it definitely makes them rajasic and tamasic.

If everything is about "energy", then why don't we consume stones and mud? What you are talking is about a person who has become that energy himself and not an aspirant who is affected by the gunas.

Regards,

 

[zenzero]

Friend Satsangi,

Yes, now each form being energy does not mean they are easily interchangeable or harmonies easily and food of different classes are nothing but harmonizing aspect of energy.

Love & rgds

 

[bhaktajan]

My point was that exclusion of beef from ones diet isn't necessarily included in the path of all Hindus, and this does not invalidate that path.

My point was that beef & meat eating IS NOT included in the path of Hinduism,
and this DOES INVALIDATES their path ---funky Karma is never promoted for those seeking moksha.

Just because someone lives and prays in India along with its environs doesn't make them emblematic of anything nor any organised system of anything.

Specificity informs enquiring minds of axiomatic truths.

When one comes from a bonefide institution then they can relate to us traditional "recipes" that work everytime, since time-immemorial, and, serve up truth that cannot be refuted by whimiscal fancies.

Truth is dharma and dharma is truth anything else is adharma or lies.

By helping something that is not righteous, even if you think you are correct, you never are, because the definition of truth itself is righteousness personified.

each form being energy does not mean they are easily interchangeable or harmonies easily and food of different classes are nothing but harmonizing aspect of energy.

I regret that it may be disheartening to be informed that it is taboo to issue maxims of Hindu orthodoxy without citing Vedic pramanas.
If one does so, they are considered, self-declared Gurus. Self-declared Gurus, in India, are a botheration, as popular as "Life of Brian" and NOT illegal.
When guessing or putting forth one's opinion about Hindu Doctrin or even, dogma one must cite Vedic pramanas, or else be considered a self-promoting Svegali.

I do not yet think that Svegali-ism is a work here, nor even worse motives . . .

......................................................................................
There's a billion of them born everyday --Bartum or Bailey?

 

[kaisersose]

My point was that beef & meat eating IS NOT included in the path of Hinduism,
and this DOES INVALIDATES their path ---funky Karma is never promoted for those seeking moksha.

Seeing you conveniently avoided my request for evidence, I will ask again. Where is the evidence that all Hindus are not to eat meat?

 

[Jacksnyte]

"Just because someone lives and prays in India along with its environs doesn't make them emblematic of anything nor any organised system of anything."

My point exactly! There are "Real Hindus(tm)" who reject the Vedas and cling to other Hindu scripture. This does not make them any less Hindu than anyone else.

Are you affiliated with ISKON? If not, your posts here are reflective of their rather (for want of a nicer way of putting it) fundamentalist one-true-wayism.

 

[bhaktajan]

Where is the evidence that all Hindus are not to eat meat?

Classical notions [actually maxims] such as:
Good karma,
Bad Karma,
samsara,
Favorable re-incarnation,
un-Favorable re-incarnation,
Aboslute Moksha,
No Moska,
Transcendence,
Non-transcendence,
Mahatma,
Guru,
santa,
Rishi,
paramahansa,
bhagavata,
svami,
Mudha,
Deva,
anubrahma,
Bhagavan,
Asura

are become nullified by eating sub-species and thus make all such items above just non-specific mumbo-jumbo.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Similarly, all the educational training a person may have earned ---is nullified by that citisen as soon as they lose control of themselves and performs anti-social behavior ---especially the type that witnesses say, "He was like an animal" or "They should treat him like an animal, for what he did" or "I wouldn't do to an animal, what he did"

After it all, IT IS AN AXIOMATIC FACT OF LIFE ---THAT CANNOT BE SEEN BY BEASTS.

 

[kaisersose]

I asked for evidence showing that "all HIndus should not eat meat" and you posted this.

Classical notions [actually maxims] such as:
Good karma,
Bad Karma,
samsara,
Favorable re-incarnation,
un-Favorable re-incarnation,
Aboslute Moksha,
No Moska,
Transcendence,
Non-transcendence,
Mahatma,
Guru,
santa,
Rishi,
paramahansa,
bhagavata,
svami,
Mudha,
Deva,
anubrahma,
Bhagavan,
Asura

are become nullified by eating sub-species and thus make all such items above just non-specific mumbo-jumbo.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Similarly, all the educational training a person may have earned ---is nullified by that citisen as soon as they lose control of themselves and performs anti-social behavior ---especially the type that witnesses say, "He was like an animal" or "They should treat him like an animal, for what he did" or "I wouldn't do to an animal, what he did"

After it all, IT IS AN AXIOMATIC FACT OF LIFE ---THAT CANNOT BE SEEN BY BEASTS.

I will take this as an admission that you do not have any evidence to support your claims. And yet surprisingly, you were admonishing someone for not posting Pramanas in support of his position.

 

[bhaktajan]

"Just because someone lives and prays in India along with its environs doesn't make them emblematic of anything nor any organised system of anything."

My point exactly! There are "Real Hindus(tm)" who reject the Vedas and cling to other Hindu scripture. This does not make them any less Hindu than anyone else.

Are you affiliated with ISKON? If not, your posts here are reflective of their rather (for want of a nicer way of putting it) fundamentalist one-true-wayism.

WHAT POINT????????????

There are "Real Hindus(tm)" who reject the Vedas

WHAT POINT????????????

"Real Hindus(tm)" NEVER reject the Vedas.

YES, I am an (Iskcon) "Who is Krishna?" Propagator!

Iskcon is Ultra-Orthodox.

Now, you are saying Ultra-Orthodox Hindu Scripture ---is equally represented by those that are un-orthodox Indian denisens?

Even during Rama's pastimes their were Forest native tribes [in India's Jungles/Forests] that were autonomously self-ruling & respected ---but they were not considered Hindu [as per the Vedas].

It seem you are using the term 'Hindu' to refer to any & all denisens of SouthAsia ---that would be incorrect.

Buddhist, Jain, Christian, Muslim, Jews, Zorothastrians etc all live in Hindu India their population statistics is alone enough to explain away the so-called inconsitancies of provincial differences.

 

[bhaktajan]

I will take this as an admission that you do not have any evidence to support your claims. And yet surprisingly, you were admonishing someone for not posting Pramanas in support of his position.

WOW! Now I know how it feels ---when I had many time asked you to do the same thing.

"Pramanas" ---Yes! tell me about it!

"all HIndus should not eat meat"

Thank you for the urging Mr K.,

Indeed, since I am not just some polititian, my opinion is of great verasity and because I am the servant of many a Brahmacari, Brahmacarini, Sannyasi, Sannyasini, Ashram Abbot, and internet forum reader ---I can be trusted with . . . relating Verbatim the Spirit of the Writ without equivocation.

Take my word for it!

If you doubt it, you will be mis-guided.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Okay, remind me later to look up what the Guru(s) say, and I will provide you with their graceful words.

I'm up to here with "Pramanas". It's not what the world is asking for, esp not at the markets.

axiomatically yours,
Bhaktajan

 

[Jacksnyte]

What it boils down to is that, as with any religion, it depends on which denomination you are talking to. Fundamentalist Christians claim that Catholics aren't "True Christians(tm)", etc., etc. Some see Hinduism as an umbrella term that encompases a myriad of paths that originate from a particular culture, some see only a few fitting under a much smaller umbrella. Potayto, potahto.

 

[Atman]

""He who wishes that a son should be born to him and that he should be a reputed
scholar, who will be frequenting the assemblies of learned scholars, who would
be speaking delightful and worth hearing words, who will be a master of all the
Vedas and who will attain a full term of life should have rice cooked with the
meat of a young bull or of a bull advanced in years and he and his wife should
eat with clarified butter, then they will be able to produce such a son"

This is from the 6th Adhyaya of the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 4th Brahmana 18th verse (Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 6.4.18). In ancient Vedic times though the cow was protected (as numerous verses from the Vedas show) the bull was still eaten ritually, and according to some dharma shastras barren cows could also be sacrificed and eaten in a humane manner (I forget which shastras mention this, but once I figure this out I will post which ones and the exact verses). Though in modern Hinduism eating beef is extremely taboo it certainly took place in Vedic times.

 

[kaisersose]

""He who wishes that a son should be born to him and that he should be a reputed
scholar, who will be frequenting the assemblies of learned scholars, who would
be speaking delightful and worth hearing words, who will be a master of all the
Vedas and who will attain a full term of life should have rice cooked with the
meat of a young bull or of a bull advanced in years and he and his wife should
eat with clarified butter, then they will be able to produce such a son" This is from the 6th Adhyaya of the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 4th Brahmana 18th verse (Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 6.4.18). In ancient Vedic times though the cow was protected (as numerous verses from the Vedas show) the bull was still eaten ritually, and according to some dharma shastras barren cows could also be sacrificed and eaten in a humane manner (I forget which shastras mention this, but once I figure this out I will post which ones and the exact verses). Though in modern Hinduism eating beef is extremely taboo it certainly took place in Vedic times.

Yes. It is common knowledge that Beef eating was prevalent during the time of the Yajur Veda and earlier. The tradition position is meat eating is prohibited for Kali-yuga and the academic view is meat-eating became taboo during the rise of Jainism and Buddhism.

The story of the butcher from the Mahabharata and tons of other evidence are compiled in "The Myth of the Holy Cow". I wil try and post some of these verses over the weekend.

This does not go well with people who like to think India was cool once upon a time where everyone was vegetarian, life was all perfect and the Mahabharata is 5000 years old.

 

[bhaktajan]

Let me bring in a word:
"Provenance"

The maxim is:
"If you want to know who your real father is ask your mother"

Don't have a Mum to ask? ---then that is called bad-karma for you.

One must cite "Pramanas".

Believe this maxim:
"One gets the Guru they deserve".

The citations are absolutely flawed because it's Provenance is not cited first and foremost!

ie:
Hi, I am a millionaire, I made my money from . . . SVJHSJQWBS. Impressed?

Hi, I am very handsome. Oh, Never mind the bag on my head. So I was saying . . .

Why cite an "authority" without citing by which "authority"?
Surely it makes you feel authoritative ---but we need to know from whom are you quoting a Western English rendering of a ancient dead language.

Even if you name names ---they are still mysterious persons from who-knows-where.

Scholarly work is predicated on this.

Want to know what real Muslims Think? Ask a real muslim.
Want to know what real Hindu Think? Ask a real Hindu.
Want to know what real Jew Think? Ask a real Jew.

Take it to the leaders for answering questions ---do not rely on other, Tourists except within the safe-zones.

Let us wait to see what authority is quoted. And probably, we will be made to wonder, "Who is translator? What is their credentials for translating sanskrit? What is their credentials for translating ancient religious scripts?" ---Ya see? Just a little protocol is all I ask.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Friend Satsangi had posed the following query:

then why don't we consume stones and mud?

To verify kindly go through this to understand that one can even live on such things mentioned, here the item mentioned is SAND.
Woman Who Eats Sand
video file of the above:Sand-eating Woman - Video

Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

It is silly to ask as to who is the father as it makes no difference even if it is X,Y or Z as they are all MIND matters.
It is understood that we are all parts of the *whole* and each is a form has a function and each form has to harmonise itself with the *whole* and that in truth there is no ownership one at best is just instrumental in giving birth.
They are all questions related to limitations created by the MINDS and transcending them is the way to harmony.
Those whose minds are making them run here and there still holding on to parents for support are free to do so. When one evolves through understanding such queries drop off.
Eyes that see is where the mind lies and that is science and when the same eyes look inwards is what religion is about. Looking inwards is introspection to start with and then slowly understanding develops and then ways that suits the individual and ten practice of the suitable way finally it is doing nothing eating when hungry and sleeping when sleepy.

Each individual are in different stages of evolution and those who are least evolved or least harmonious in a sangha [environment] will emit most noises and those in harmony churns beautiful songs and music or poetry or some may just do nothing!

Love & rgds

 

[Milind2469]

Can one still practice Hinduism and be a consumer of beef, and to what level one should or should not eat it? For example, can one eat beef freely, but not cook it, or can they eat gelatin, but not beef, etc?

Hello xkatz,
Namaste!
Please do let me know if you are satisfied with my reply!

One of the unique characteristic of Hinduism (which is more of a local culture than a so called religion --- my views) is to be appreciative of and grateful to the helper.
The way of showing grattitude is very piculiar! We consider him a God (not to be mistaken with the creator of the universe), praise him (called a prayer), offer gifts (prashadam), bow to him (namashkar).

The examples include kings, sun, trees, snake, cow, wind, fire, money, guests, mother, father, teachers, weapons, tools, bulls, knowledge, priests,stones...the list is long!
There are specific days when these entities are worshipped more specifically with special rituals.

Earlier in the history of Hindus, a cow was the most important domesticated animal. Their wealth depended upon her. She gave milk like a mother feeds her infants, her milk products, dung and urine was used as medicine, after her natural death her skin was used for many purposes, even her bones were used in natural medicines. Bulls were heavily used in agriculture and pulling carts. So cow was very precious to us. She was traded as exchange. Having cows was a prestige point. Gifting cows would definitely win you hearts! Hindus could not live and prosper without cows!

The rishis (Hindu spiritual leaders) recognised this and identified her as God so that she will be preserved and will not become extinct like any other animals which are hunted.

As she became a God, it is natural that we bow to her, consider her holy and naturally refrain from killing her.

I am a just a reader of spiritual/ phylosophical books and not an authority on religion. So I will not comment about the relevance of this practice in today's times.