Behold I Stand At The Door And Knock

[OtherSheep]

The Pharisees wanted Jesus to tell them they were virtuous, the Jews suffering under Rome thought Jesus was going to topple political authorities, everyone had expectations of Jesus contrary to who he actually was.

John 11:48 If we let Him thus alone, all [men] will believe on Him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
John 19:15 Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Were they really suffering under Rome? Pilate called Jesus a just man and wanted nothing to do with the murder of Jesus... which truly is what it was, because Jesus was judged innocent by the representative of Rome. People seem to forget this fact, when they blame Rome for the murder of Jesus. Rome seems to have been under the sway of the Chief Priests and Pharisees. Or Pilate didn't want to be dragged off by the mob that had gathered and were screaming for Jesus's blood.

Paul had been given the authority to travel to other countries to kill the Disciples of Jesus... was he also suffering under Rome?

We must read the Bible just as we would any other book.

 

[Father Heathen]

And you STILL think you have the right to tell God what to do.

Why aren't you doing something to stop wars, Heathen?

If I had the powers of a god, I would.

It is, after all, being done by unbelievers like you.

War has little to do with religion nowadays, but you would be an absolute fool to pretend that the hands of religion aren't stained with blood.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

John 11:48 If we let Him thus alone, all [men] will believe on Him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
John 19:15 Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Were they really suffering under Rome? Pilate called Jesus a just man and wanted nothing to do with the murder of Jesus... which truly is what it was, because Jesus was judged innocent by the representative of Rome. People seem to forget this fact, when they blame Rome for the murder of Jesus. Rome seems to have been under the sway of the Chief Priests and Pharisees. Or Pilate didn't want to be dragged off by the mob that had gathered and were screaming for Jesus's blood.

Paul had been given the authority to travel to other countries to kill the Disciples of Jesus... was he also suffering under Rome?

We must read the Bible just as we would any other book.

Well, let me rephrase this.

The Jews had a very complicated relationship with the Roman state.

Remember that question of Jesus whether it's lawful to pay taxes to Caesar? Well, there happens to be a lot of subcontext to it that is never overtly written in the text.

1. The Jews had a leprosy problem as a result of their walled cities. That they had been invaded many times provided a purpose for these walls, but they were doing more harm than good. The priests, rather than being in the frontlines risking their health, behaved much like the people in the Good Samaritan story, walking on the other side of the street when they heard someone shout "unclean." This is why Jesus healing others was so prominent. Because there were a lot of of people not being healed by the Pharisees.
   
2. The Jews had to pay two taxes. One was a civil tax to Rome and another was an atonement tax. Suppose you worked on the Sabbath (and there were nitpicky laws on even how much you could carry or whether you could cook, or errands you could run that counted as "work"). You would have to bring a sacrifice animal, and it probably would have some blemish (or imaginary blemish), which meant you would have to buy an animal, and you'd need your money changed. This racket was later why Jesus overturned the tables in the Temple square. But here's the point. If you didn't manage to atone, you were a sinner. And there were lots of sinners. Likewise, if you didn't pay your taxes you were a criminal. So we have a separation of church and state, but both of them were picking on the average Jew.
3. It gets worse. The coin they were supposed to be taxed with? It was a coin that few Jews even had. Only Roman citizens (and those with direct dealings with them) would have been able to show the coin. They would have had to pay a tax with money they had, probably at a poor exchange rate (like 20 shekel to 1 denarii). Jesus is asked is it lawful to pay the Roman tax. Most people think his answer is pretty half-baked but it is actually very edgy. But Jesus really had no stake in politics, which he did care about was injustice and oppression. So we have three things Jesus said: "Show me the coin", "Whose image and inscription is this?" "Render unto Caesar what is his, and render unto God what is God's."
   
4. These comments all reveal a great deal about Jesus that basically nobody understands. And about the priests. You see, Jesus didn't have the coin because he wasn't in the pocket of Rome, but despite the denarius being a profane object that should be inside the Temple area, the Pharisees readily produced one. Hmmmm. Second, the "image" and "inscription" refer to Shema Yisrael (where Jews are instructed to inscribe God's words on their doorposts and bind them on their foreheads) and the Ten Commandments (where they are forbidden from worshiping graven images; btw, this coin actually refers to Caesar as a god). Lastly, it was to understood that everything belongs to God, so this was an answer that satisfied the stupid Romans that might listen, because it had the appearance of consent to taxes. But what this really meant is you can either care about money and the world, or you can care more about God.

So why did they say they have no king but Caesar? (1) Because they damned well couldn't say otherwise in front of a bunch of Roman officials and soldiers crucifying someone. What if they decided to string a couple of them up next? In Ben Hur and Spartacus, we see how common this sort of thing is, the latter showing a road full of them. (2) Because Jesus had let them down. Jesus wasn't their king, they decided. #NotOurMessiah (3) Because they worship the world, and not God. They meant it. It wasn't just Judas or Peter who betrayed Jesus. Most of the crowd did too.

Watch people closely. How the church leaders turn their back on Christ, and say basically the same. They've taken the Roman denarius.

That said, I like most of your answers. I'm just explaining that sometimes it's like that. People can suffer under something, yet still agree to go along with it. Like people who snitch or assist dragoons. Saul is a good example. He was a Jewish leader that sold himself out to be made a citizen of Rome, then persecuted Christians.

If I had the powers of a god, I would.

No you wouldn't. Whatever you are unwilling to stand against as a human, you are unwilling to stand against as God.

I've made it pretty clear what I stand for. But what do you really stand for? You've got to stand for something.

Also, I have a feeling you need to watch better shows.

 

[Father Heathen]

That's exactly what sick people say. The most sick of Jesus's day were the Pharisees, but you'll notice Jesus was utterly unable to treat them. He said "those who are well have no need of a healer" but it was clear from his comparison of them to whitewashed tombs and talk about how the robbers and murderers would enter heaven before them that Jesus understood that their declaration that they were without sin that kept Grace from them. "If you say you are without sin, you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you but if you confess your sins, you will be forgiven" and "All have sinned all have fallen short." Coronavirus is a universal, like sin. All of us have strains of it (just maybe not the "novel" one), just as all of us have flu strains. These are called endemic diseases. Whether we test positive for it or not depends on whether we have allowed ourselves to become run down and overwhelmed by it (i.e. more cells are Coronavirus-infected than healthy).

So it's not viral, but a magical curse that requires an ancient blood ritual to lift it? Got it.

The fact that you don't put "disease" in quotations means you are unwilling to even CONSIDER you might be wrong. That is a lot of confidence there. It also means if you do turn out to be wrong, you're responsible for a lot of things wrong (food shortages, lost jobs, suicides, obesity). Sorry but while I may in fact be wrong, I've done risk assessment, and I'm pretty certain there is little risk of making anyone sick (I'm a shut-in even before this). The risk of me making people sick, or the risk of us following the advice of people like you? Which is a greater disaster? You may want to think harder on that.

Obviously I'm going to trust the international scientific and medical community (you know, the educated experts) over a bunch of dopey yokel kooks spinning convoluted, nonsensical, scientifically illiterate conspiracy theories. Also, the negative impacts have a lot to do with the failed response to the pandemic at the beginning. Thank your orange god king for that.

Wait, did I mention anime? If Jesus were alive today, he would recommend you watch this anime movie. Despite it being a Buddhist cult movie. It's about the problem of fear and people being driven into hysterias.

Again with the hyperbolic straw man. Misrepresenting my point of view isn't how you present a persuasive argument. I don't fear covid. I wear a mask out of courtesy and decency; the masks help prevent the wearer from spreading it, not form contracting it. My father is elderly and ailing, so I would prefer he not get sick. It's common sense when you look at the death toll.

I do take showers. When I feel really sweaty or gross, or have someone I want to be around, or a job to go to; otherwise there's no point. When I had a steady job, this was closer to every day. But now that everyone is declared "nonessential" many people, not just myself, have basically ****ed off hygiene. So on behalf of everyone, thank you for giving me nowhere to go, and no reason to clean myself. My tangled messy hair, and my gaining five lb thanks you too.

Thanks to....me? I'm not the president who failed to take steps to contain the outbreak.

Doubtful. As I said before, the people who most need healing are those who don't even understand what they need most.

Which is precisely why god brought you to me, to cleanse you of the toxic haze over your mind. No need to thank me or him.

I have had plenty of safety all my life. Avoided jobs that were high pressure or high stress, avoiding high drama relationships, avoid high rent apartments in favor of living at home. I'm a loser with few friends, and I know it. But I also know exactly what healing looks like.


This is healing. These people are happy and fulfilled, even if they die tomorrow.

This, on the other hand....


Do any of these people look happy to you? Does this situation look healthy?

Some may be happier wallowing in denial and willful ignorance rather than face reality, but that doesn't make it the more rational, healthy choice.

 

[Father Heathen]

No you wouldn't. Whatever you are unwilling to stand against as a human, you are unwilling to stand against as God.

Okay, can you show me where I've expressed any pro-war sentiments? I stand for or against things the only way that a citizen meaningfully can; by voting.

I've made it pretty clear what I stand for. But what do you really stand for? You've got to stand for something.

I stand for a great many things. Where should I start?

Also, I have a feeling you need to watch better shows.

Better than what? You presume to know what I enjoy, so tell me what you think I watch.

 

[Father Heathen]

@Samantha Rinne
Read this in the news today: Man who believed virus was hoax loses wife to Covid-19

 

[OtherSheep]

War has little to do with religion nowadays, but you would be an absolute fool to pretend that the hands of religion aren't stained with blood.

War has everything to do with religion.

The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in His field: But while men slept, His enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

So the servants of the Householder came and said unto Him, "Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?"

He said unto them, "An enemy hath done this."

The servants said unto Him, "Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?"

But He said, "Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into My barn."
--Matthew 13:-2430

Don't mistake the people who claim religion, and use it as a cloak for vice, for those who follow God. See what they do, research what their religion tells them to do, and make your judgments accordingly.
... The middle part might be a bit tricky, since the tares/cuckoos have been hard at work reordering the contents of the field/nest they occupy.

 

[Father Heathen]

War has everything to do with religion.

The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in His field: But while men slept, His enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

So the servants of the Householder came and said unto Him, "Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?"

He said unto them, "An enemy hath done this."

The servants said unto Him, "Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?"

But He said, "Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into My barn."
--Matthew 13:-2430

Don't mistake the people who claim religion, and use it as a cloak for vice, for those who follow God. See what they do, research what their religion tells them to do, and make your judgments accordingly.
... The middle part might be a bit tricky, since the tares/cuckoos have been hard at work reordering the contents of the field/nest they occupy.

'k.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

@Samantha Rinne
Read this in the news today: Man who believed virus was hoax loses wife to Covid-19

Yes, I've seen this sort of thing.

The average age of death for regular people from COVID? Basically 70+.

And yet, anyone who denies COVID is real? Mysteriously dies as young as 17.

A guy dies after calling stay-at-home orders "bull"
COVID-19 Denier Dies of Coronavirus After Calling Stay-At-Home Orders 'Bulls---t'
A Christian-type musician died after calling it fake news.
I Knew Coronavirus Denier Landon Spradlin. His Death Wasn’t a Punchline.
One priest died just after reopening his church.
Texas church closes after priest dies, members get coronavirus
A girl of 17 (well below the average age of death) dies after attending a church party when it reopens. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article244027067.html
An Ohio man who called it a political ploy mysteriously died later of the same.
Did Ohio Man Who Called COVID-19 a 'Political Ploy' Die from the Disease?

Meanwhile, people in the grocery stores, the abortion clinics, and the Black Lives Matter crowds never seem to get even a hint of a sneeze. Funny how that works.

Almost as if these people are being cursed with death (Revelation 13:15).

The Coronavirus is a Paradigm.

Spoiler: There are several classes of simulacrum (false reality)

1. Illusion - something that is a trick of the light, but can neither be felt nor smelled (like an optical illusion)
2. Glamour - Something that is vaguely real yet feels different from how it looks (a good mundane example is something like contour makeup or spray tan)
3. Distortion - Something is real, but it being messed with in some way (like Photoshopping a picture)
4. Pattern - A complicated and persistent false reality (like your favorite movie stars actually being much different from how they appear on TV/movies, or a cartoon/anime since the voices aren't the real appearance)
5. Delusion - An idea that seems extremely real but has no basis in fact (like climate change or gender theory)
6. Paradigm - An illusion that is as solid as belief in it. A pattern of thought that strengthens the more you allow to affect you (a prime example of this is how weather forecasting works; despite some weather news actually clearly being fake, the fact that it seems real makes it real because of the power of mass belief)
7. The Desire Realm - The simulacrum we call "real life." That which appears to be real in every way. However, the Desire Realm is not real, as we understand when we get rid of all desire, and attain the empty mind Buddha.

As you can see, things are generally more real as you go down the list. A Paradigm, or fixed way of thinking appears very real, but it falls apart when we use logic and ask questions. Questions like:
1. If this were a real disease and not a scam, biological weapon, or something else, wouldn't people eventually eventually become immune? "But this works differently than..." than every other disease? Really?!? You're going with that? We have an immune system. Either vaccines work AND natural immunity works, or neither do.
2. Why are world leaders reluctant to test the public early or report recoveries, but in a hurry to report deaths? And why are they reporting as cumulative deaths (the number never goes down)? Why are they doing tests months later, after cases are slowing? Why are they trying to push an untested vaccine designed by a man whose only experience with viruses is the computer kind and who actually made thousand of Indian kids sick with polio with his crackpot vaccine (though "fact checkers" will tell you this isn't so, I could probably call some kids up from India)? Even if the fact checkers were right, why should I trust a rushed-through serum that everyone says I have to take?
3. Why is it that when people take off their mask to eat, they don't immediately get sick... yet you are often told to leave these same restaurants if you enter without a mask? Either the sickness is there, or it isn't.
4. Why is it that government and media types make a great show of wearing masks when they are on camera, but when they are caught off guard... they kinda don't? For that matter, when that lady invited me into her house after telling me to wear a mask and I refused, she didn't observe six-foot distance at all (she was more like 2 ft hovering over me). Why not?
No mask for Gov. Northam
5. Why is it okay to eat outside at a restaurant, but not worship outside of a church, with the exact same number of people and spacing?
6. From other diseases, there have been quicker-killing viruses (the Black Plague), grosser deaths (again, the Black Plague), and more deaths (same deal, plus a number of others). Yet none of these had the state of alarm, including police state action. Why not? Why is this disease that curiously pops up (right before an election and right after an attempted impeachment) worth so much precaution?
7. Why is death under Coronavirus so much worse than just living your life, and taking informed risks? Aren't you dead regardless? Or is Coronavirus death more sinful or something? If you do not believe in an afterlife, like many secular people claim to, then why should being politically incorrect or not "virtuous" even matter? Could it be that secular people actually do believe in some sort of karmic justice, and are just kidding the rest of us?

The only way to defeat the illusions in people's hearts is with the truth. Back to Jesus. Pilate asked after Jesus explained that he came on behalf of the truth, "What is truth?" I don't think much has changed.

 

[OtherSheep]

1. This racket was later why Jesus overturned the tables in the Temple square. But here's the point. If you didn't manage to atone, you were a sinner.
   
2. But Jesus really had no stake in politics
   
3. the stupid Romans

Because they damned well couldn't say otherwise in front of a bunch of Roman officials and soldiers crucifying someone. What if they decided to string a couple of them up next?

People can suffer under something, yet still agree to go along with it. Like people who snitch or assist dragoons. Saul is a good example. He was a Jewish leader that sold himself out to be made a citizen of Rome, then persecuted Christians.

Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican (tax collector).

THIS is the reason Jesus made that whip. And all through the Prophets, we clearly see that God never wanted the sacrificial system. What God wants is clean hearts, not to be offered bribes after the fact. Only the rich could afford to be sinners, in that morally deficient system.

John 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, "Behold your King!" 15 But they cried out, "Away with [Him], away with [Him], crucify Him." Pilate saith unto them, "Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar."

Pilate, not the stupid Roman you think he was, had set a trap: "Shall I crucify your King?" And the problem wasn't "a bunch of Roman officials and soldiers crucifying someone." or "a bunch of Roman officials and soldiers" who "decided to string a couple of them up." Of all the stupid things I've ever heard said about the murder of Jesus, this one takes the cake... and the ice cream, too.

Acts 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints
did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests;
and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against [them].
11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled [them] to blaspheme;
and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted [them] even unto strange cities.

How did the Jews get the right to Jail, Torture, Murder and Kidnap people who lived in the Roman Empire?

Paul said they did all of that. Under whose authority? By some agreement with Rome.
Pilate knew they'd been killing people. Why didn't they "See ye to it", this time?

Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but [that] rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed [his] hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye [to it].

If you wanted to kidnap someone, torture them enough to get them to blaspheme their God, and then put them to death, would your "stupid government" let you do it?
... Nope, not unless you had that same kind of special relationship the Jews had over Rome.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

I don't disagree with you there.

We see several scriptures talking about "I desire not burnt offerings." Even if God was okay with forgiving sins, he was like the precursor of PETA and way less of a hypocrite than them. In the story of Jonah he mentions cattle and such. God even cares for sparrows. Animal sacrifice continued foe years and years, and there was a sort of blood debt from all these animals offered for sins.
To be fair, the Gentiles were offering their own children as blood sacrifice (the story of Isaac is really a treatise against that nonsense). But although this is better, this is definitely NOT what God wants.

Jesus's stake in politics was almost libertarian (it would be a mistake to call him that, just as it's a mistake to call him white, black, capitalist, communist, etc but his major stake in politics was not becoming a target for Rome like Barabbas; even so Jesus taught that at any time, his followers might be called to account for their actions. Jesus was not apolitical, but his mission was his kingdom, but the potentially corrupt kingdoms of this world. There would always be Herods, but he cared about his followers being better than the laws of the land)

I'm not sure how I meant the Romans were stupid. Except that they probably didn't have insight into the way the Jewish mind works, so some of his comments went over their heads, while they definitely made the Jewish officials look corrupt. Which is why Jesus had to die. Jesus had a mixed relationship with Rome. He healed this guy at a command of a centurion, he associated with tax collectors, but neither was he in favor of secular authorities being in league with the priests. Jesus was a religious Jews, as evidenced by his observation of Jewish customs. He loved what Judaism could be, but was disgusted by what he actually saw (stubborn legalism, for example).

And yes, you are correct that the Romans knew that the Jews often put down their prophets. Pilate understood that if he acted directly when there was poor evidence for Jesus's guilt, there might be a revolt in Judea. And they kinda mentioned that his wife had a dream that he should not kill this Jesus guy. I imagine he thought that she meant that Rome might hold him responsible for setting off a riot, and that things were fine as long as he personally wasn't involved, but it was deeper than that. Jesus's death started a MOVEMENT.

Rome later did become the enemy of the Followers of the Way, as the early church became known, resulting in a number of martyrs. But Jesus was relatively amicable to the Romans as people, while being against their rule as a principle. This is what I mean by him not being political. He didn't riot, he didn't join anti-Roman protest groups, he wasn't a thug like Barabbas. He had strong opinions to be sure but he wasn't going to lead Jews in a war against Rome, like some Messianic types thought he should. In fact, this was one of the things responsible for his death, people felt that he had failed as a Messiah.

 

[OtherSheep]

Acts 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints
did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests;
and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against [them].
11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled [them] to blaspheme;
and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted [them] even unto strange cities.

How did the Jews get the right to Jail, Torture, Murder and Kidnap people who lived in the Roman Empire?

Paul said they did all of that. Under whose authority? By some agreement with Rome.
Pilate knew they'd been killing people. Why didn't they "See ye to it", this time?

Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but [that] rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed [his] hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye [to it].

If you wanted to kidnap someone, torture them enough to get them to blaspheme their God, and then put them to death, would your "stupid government" let you do it?
... Nope, not unless you had that same kind of special relationship the Jews had over Rome.

I don't disagree with you there.

offering their own children as blood sacrifice (the story of Isaac is really a treatise against that nonsense).

I don't believe that for a minute. "Hast not spared thy beloved son" means obedience without question. Fully prepared to do whatever is asked, for God's sake.

Genesis 22:12 And He said, Lay not thine hand upon the child, neither do anything to him, for now I know that thou fearest God, and for My sake thou hast not spared thy beloved son.

Doesn't it bother you at all? that the same Canaanites who spoke Hebrew before Abram came there, had Molech as a god.

I'm not sure how I meant the Romans were stupid. Except that they probably didn't have insight into the way the Jewish mind works, so some of his comments went over their heads, while they definitely made the Jewish officials look corrupt. Which is why Jesus had to die. Jesus had a mixed relationship with Rome. He healed this guy at a command of a centurion, he associated with tax collectors, but neither was he in favor of secular authorities being in league with the priests. Jesus was a religious Jews, as evidenced by his observation of Jewish customs. He loved what Judaism could be, but was disgusted by what he actually saw (stubborn legalism, for example).

The word Jew is the Greek Judaea, the country. Jesus wasn't a Judaean. Judaism is what Jesus called their traditions [unwritten talmud]. "But I say unto you" came between the Traditions and the Commandments of God as given by Jesus. At least one of those traditions is what Jesus openly called 'what Moses allowed' because of the 'hardness of their hearts'. What we see as Judaism is some mixture of all three: From the Beginning, what Moses allowed, and Talmud... the last taking center stage.

And yes, you are correct that the Romans knew that the Jews often put down their prophets. Pilate understood that if he acted directly when there was poor evidence for Jesus's guilt, there might be a revolt in Judea. And they kinda mentioned that his wife had a dream that he should not kill this Jesus guy. I imagine he thought that she meant that Rome might hold him responsible for setting off a riot, and that things were fine as long as he personally wasn't involved, but it was deeper than that.
Jesus's death started a MOVEMENT.

If by "put down", you mean like a dog is put down, then yes, they murdered the prophets.
"Poor evidence for Jesus's guilt"... His guilt of what, pray tell?
Pilate tried to find out what the Jews were murdering Jesus for... he never did. Under Roman law, Jesus was guilt-free. Pilate mocked their obsessive hand washing ritual, and gave the murder to them and their conscience. Apparently the Jews had some sort of vice-grip on the Roman Empire, which may have had something to do with their history of tax collection wherever they went.
...
But Jesus LIFE started a movement: His death gave life to that movement.

Rome later did become the enemy of the Followers of the Way, as the early church became known, resulting in a number of martyrs. But Jesus was relatively amicable to the Romans as people, while being against their rule as a principle. This is what I mean by him not being political. He didn't riot, he didn't join anti-Roman protest groups, he wasn't a thug like Barabbas. He had strong opinions to be sure but he wasn't going to lead Jews in a war against Rome, like some Messianic types thought he should. In fact, this was one of the things responsible for his death, people felt that he had failed as a Messiah.

And yet Jesus says NOT ROMANS, but PHARISEES would be guilty of the murder of Jesus' Disciples and Prophets and Wise Men and Scribes. So the Pharisees must have become Popes early on, by the time of the persecuting Popes.

In fact, this is precisely what Revelation says.

2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; 9 I know thy works, and tribulation,* and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan. 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
(The [are] was added and so are commas... may be all the difference in the world.)

And they will be in that same position again... if not still... when time runs out on the world.

3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

John 8 tells us that if they'd been Abram's children, they'd have known who Jesus was. Who the heck are these people? They were never in bondage, according to them, v.33...

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted,* and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.

____________
* Greek, thlipsis... persecution, anguish. Torture? Like Pharisee Paul admitted to doing. In other words, the Matt.13 seed on the stones had this same word done to him, and it caused him to skandalizo-- apostacize. Jesus said He would send Jerusalem His Prophets, as a witness against them... because He knows they can't resist being what they are... for "the works of their father they will do". This means Babylon where our Lord was murdered, (Rev.11:8) will also kill the witnesses.

People want to sugar coat this issue or pass it by altogether. But the day will come when what is happening will not be able to be overlooked. And the world will rejoice and send each other presents, at this May Day or Purim. -- and yet, there are brave tigers among them, who hate what their eyes are seeing, and try to police their own. God bless them for their courageous hearts.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Well, yes. Abraham was fully prepared to do as God asked. But the actual point of this passage was (1) it wad a test to see whether he was prepared to do as God asked, (2) God was not prepared to let him go through with that, (3) and we kniw this because there are laws in either Deuteronomy or Leviticus (I never keep those straight, but I think it's the first) specifically speaking against child sacrifice ( "abortion" by any other name).

This is largely how Jews (and Christians) were known to be falling away from their teachings, they did as the unbelievers did, and have child sacrifice to Moloch. And yes, it bothers me. This was firstly what God wanted to stop, and the cure to that was animal sacrifice. God intervened by having a ram was it (doing this from memory) get caught in the thicket nearby. But animal sacrifice was just a quick patch, God says later "I do not delight in burnt offerings, a broken and contrite heart..." You get the idea. Actually feeling sorry and upset about what you did was what God wanted. But most of them were convinced they were right!

Jesus respected the holidays and customs of Judaism. That is to say, he celebrated the holy days of the calendar, Matthew traces his genealogy back not to David but to Adam (showing his connection not merely to Judaism but to all mankind), he was born in Bethlehem and moved to Nazareth, he attended and even gave a sermon at a synagogue (it didn't go over real well...), he was called a Rabbi and in fact probably was one (though NOT a Pharisee), and he died in the middle of Passover as a blood sacrifice (the very sacrifice it clear he hated most, he was willing to do with his own Son). I'm not sure where Judea comprises but he was in fact a citizen of the Jewish nation.
But you are correct in saying that he defied most of the written Talmud in favor of revised or unwritten Talmud.
https://www.chosenpeople.com/site/did-jesus-celebrate-the-jewish-holidays/

Yeah, as I say, Jesus didn't have hard feelings towards the Romans. The thing about Revelation is that it depicts a very creepy state though. Where plague, war, famine, and death is going on and nothing is done. Where people are branded with some sort of Mark and obviously the state supports this. If you troll through the internet, many people believe that the "vaccine" to COVID-19 will involve some sort of marker so that people can tell who is "safe" to buy and sell, and who is not. Also, there's the whole notion of mandatory vaccination being a gross abuse of state authority.
But this is precisely what is meant by Pharisees though. Jesus spoke out about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, quenching the thirsty, and welcoming the stranger. By the way, this is what any store should do, just with the exchange of money. But the exact issue of the Mark is that it invalidates the social contract (breaches it, in fact). The Pharisees in the parable of the Good Samaritan, and in fact in most of the actual Gospel were those who were taught the Bible of their time, yet didn't understand mercy. They only understood laws. Many Christians believe "If I'm good enough, I'll go to Heaven." No, the point is mercy. Something that both the church and the state has failed at lately.

The Jews which are synagogue of Satan are a very specific sort of Jews, btw. Like the Jews that Jesus pointed out had the Roman coin, these are Jews in league with the state. They are Jews that reject the notion that Jews should be in Israel and have taken to meddling in world affairs. These are also Jews that keep moving the goalposts as to why Jesus can't be the Messiah. The actual Jews that God wants are those who follow his real Law (to do justice, to love mercy, and walk humbly with God), not human laws. The actual Christians that God wants are those who agree to be his Bride.

We see these fake Jews today, some of which don't even identify as Jews but as Christians. Yet they act exactly like Jews. "Don't get closer than 6 feet from me! Wash your hands! Wear a mask! Don't come into my house." These Jews are not being welcoming, not feeding the hungry/thirsty. And worse, they spread their fear with them. That's why they are called a synagogue of Satan, because they teach and convert others to their fear. And preach isolation to others.

Ah! I skipped a paragraph. During the "trial" of Jesus, he basically defends himself not at all. Other "witnesses" say they saw him do or say things, but they can't agree on the facts. Pilate is no idiot. He knows that the Pharisees have it in for Jesus. He's not sure why though, so he sends this guy to Herod. Herod wants to condemn him as a threat to his power so he asks him to perform miracles, but Jesus isn't and doesn't. By little, I mean practically none (except creating a nuisance to the Pharisees by challenging their authority, but that isn't something the Romans have anything to do with). Oddly, rather than securing a guilty sentence, Jesus helps them patch up their relationship.

(I always find it entertaining that they tell about a Passover sacrifice being spotless and without blemish, and here is Jesus who the priests have rejected yet Pilate says "I find no fault with this man")

Oh that's what Pilate was doing by washing his hands? I never understood that part.

And yes, I did mean put down like a dog.