Being part of a group.

[BucephalusBB]

I was wondering how you look at your religion. Is it more that you give your faith a name close to what you believe so that others know what you are talking about? Or is it more that you join a group and follow their rules completelly?

e.g. for myself I call myself an atheist because I do not believe in God. And there isn't really an atheist-book to follow :bonk: , but if something would happen to make me start believing in God, i'd rather not be part of a group as I would get the feeling that I'm not following my own thoughts, but the thoughts of another. I find it strange sometimes, that opinions are asked and that members reply with:"I'll look it up for you". As if their thoughts are written by another.

And on the other hand I can understand you like to be united and that a believe in the book is a possibillity as well ofcourse.

 

[jeffrey]

I call myself a Christian because I follow Christ, were my wife, who very much believes in Christ, refuses to call herself a Christian because of the way some Christians act. Full of hate, think they and their religion is better then you, look down their nose at you, call you names, the opposite of what Christ taught. She believes that alot of Atheists are more Christ like then alot of Christians.

 

[Pardus]

...the way some Christians act. Full of hate, think they and their religion is better then you, look down their nose at you, call you names, the opposite of what Christ taught.

Say hello to the reason i became atheist and why i'll never ever become christian again.

And anyone out there who prays for me to "find my way back to the lord", keep those annoying little angels to yourself, for their own good.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Say hello to the reason i became atheist and why i'll never ever become christian again.

And anyone out there who prays for me to "find my way back to the lord", keep those annoying little angels to yourself, for their own good.

So you stopped being theistic because a group wich you called your own didn't do the things within your morals??
That's exactly what I mean, it seems to me now that you stopped believing over what a group of people did.. How can that be?

 

[Mike182]

I was wondering how you look at your religion. Is it more that you give your faith a name close to what you believe so that others know what you are talking about? Or is it more that you join a group and follow their rules completelly?

i give my faith and practices the name of "christian wicca" so that people can get some idea about my religion without asking

 

[YmirGF]

I find it strange sometimes, that opinions are asked and that members reply with:"I'll look it up for you". As if their thoughts are written by another.

I feel that many people stoop to quotes from their scriptures, rather than wow me with their intellectual grasp of a given topic. I am always a bit disappointed when people fling scripture at me. I can read, after all. This got so bad on Islam.com that I finally insisted that Muslims NOT use quotations from the Qur'an to make their point. Quess what happened. They stopped talking to me.

At first I was confused by this, but slowly it dawned on me that I had crippled their ability to argue. Without the Qur'an to back up what they stated, they were dead in the water. It was almost sad. Only one person engaged me from then on, and even then, I could tell that they were ill at ease doing so. They even complained about my insistance about "No Quotes", saying that it was unfair. Strangely, they never did seem to appreciate that all I wanted to know was what they thought.

Pity so many, do not try to understand their own religions and rely on faith where their brain leaves off.

 

[Pardus]

So you stopped being theistic because a group wich you called your own didn't do the things within your morals??
That's exactly what I mean, it seems to me now that you stopped believing over what a group of people did.. How can that be?

No within their own morals, say one thing do another, this was during my teens i should add, tho my reasons for going started with "humans are above animals" when i could clearly see there was no difference from an extremely young age.

The point is i could not be part of a group who i consider two-faced hypocrytes.

I still hold the essence of what i believed, "be a good person".

 

[BucephalusBB]

I still hold the essence of what i believed, "be a good person".

Now that I understand

 

[s2a]

Bouncing_Ball inquired:

I was wondering how you look at your religion. Is it more that you give your faith a name close to what you believe so that others know what you are talking about? Or is it more that you join a group and follow their rules completelly?

As Thomas Edison once succinctly observed, I too consider the supernaturalistic claims of religion as "bunk".

e.g. for myself I call myself an atheist because I do not believe in God. And there isn't really an atheist-book to follow , but if something would happen to make me start believing in God, i'd rather not be part of a group as I would get the feeling that I'm not following my own thoughts, but the thoughts of another. I find it strange sometimes, that opinions are asked and that members reply with:"I'll look it up for you". As if their thoughts are written by another.

I'm not one to define/quantify others as to their beliefs or disbeliefs, but know that an "atheist" (by definition) finds no credible evidence to support belief of (or adherence to) supernatural/divine cause/effect explanations.

Freethought (or freethinking) is the most rebellious (singular or group) aspect of any prospective cultural society. The very notion that humans can (and/or should) think and reason for themselves - beyond any proscribed/assigned/mandated/dictated sets of "moral/ethical" parameters - is anathema to any group that wishes to assert authority/control over others.

The entire underlying purpose of any organized religion is to assert (or proclaim) some "ultimate" (or definitive) rules/guidelines/explanation(s) of human/self-aware existence itself (not only the "how", but even the "why").

Atheists commit the unpardonable sin of thinking for themselves; not only as to explanations of the "how" of [a] personalized existence...but as to the very "unanswerable" aspects of "why" itself. Is it hubris to assert personal authority and accountability for oneself, or is it something else?

There is no "rulebook", nor house of worship, for atheists to congregate within - for every freethinking individual is ultimately accountable for their own choices in manifestly resultant cause/effect outcomes/consequences.

No "gods" to praise/thank, yet no "demons" to blame/curse.

This presents a particularly high (and for many, uncomfortable) burden of accountability to accept for oneself, and many would prefer to defray such outcomes to "fate", or (supernaturalistic) predisposition(s). If you choose to believe that "things happen" for some otherwise inexplicable/undefined/cruel "reason", then you are likely to embrace (and perhaps espouse) that religiously-based "understanding" with others.

Misery loves company, and no company embraces misery more than organized religion. When a collective mass of like-minded folks can blame someone/something else as root cause of their collectively-embraced misery, then they can exert/assert a collective/controlling power of influence over others that (may) simply observe that consequence is result of neither reward nor punishment...but an inevitable result of both controllable and incontrollable circumstances.

Odd, ain't it, that history records no such qualified atheist as persuant of cultural power or domination? What prospective power of rule or domination is derived in the notion that everyone not only can, but must be accountable for their own controllable personalized choices/views? What imposed controlling powers would ignorance, fear, or superstition retain in such a climate of acutely personal accountability?

"Here...let me help you choose what's 'best' for you. Relax...take it easy...I'll tell you what to think/believe/embrace/espouse. I care about you more than you care for yourself. Trust me to save you from your own craven self...because you know you can't trust yourself."

"And on the other hand I can understand you like to be united and that a believe in the book is a possibillity as well ofcourse."

A book is...a book. There are lots of books. No one book should therefore a religion make, nor should one book be supposed as an entirety/repository of wisdom to supplant all others.

Atheists read books. No one book could ever serve as "ultimate authority" for any atheist.

If you doubt that, then you're a long way from being an atheist.

 

[BucephalusBB]

A book is...a book. There are lots of books. No one book should therefore a religion make, nor should one book be supposed as an entirety/repository of wisdom to supplant all others.

What I meant is not the believe in the book itself, but the believe that the book was written "by God" and therefor the ultimate referenceguide.

Atheists read books. No one book could ever serve as "ultimate authority" for any atheist.

We don't "see" an ultimate being able to write such a book.

If you doubt that, then you're a long way from being an atheist.

Who was doubting that? I said I can understand, doesn't mean I follow it..
Besides, I don't need to be part of atheists, It happens to be that way :biglaugh:

 

[Evenstar]

The point is i could not be part of a group who i consider two-faced hypocrytes.

I still hold the essence of what i believed, "be a good person".

This is the reason I refuse to go to Church.... Well said Pardus Karma to you!

 

[Smoke]

I call myself a Christian because I follow Christ, were my wife, who very much believes in Christ, refuses to call herself a Christian because of the way some Christians act. Full of hate, think they and their religion is better then you, look down their nose at you, call you names, the opposite of what Christ taught. She believes that alot of Atheists are more Christ like then alot of Christians.

It sounds like your wife and I are on the same page.

 

[michel]

It sounds like your wife and I are on the same page.

I wouldn't say the reason I don't call myself a "Christian" is because I don't want to be associated with Christianity; it is more that I am much more than a Christian. Besides, for every 'bad' Christian, I dare say there's a couple of good ones. You just never get to hear about them.

And there is no group for me, because I am the only one of me!:biglaugh:

 

[Smoke]

I wouldn't say the reason I don't call myself a "Christian" is because I don't want to be associated with Christianity; it is more that I am much more than a Christian. Besides, for every 'bad' Christian, I dare say there's a couple of good ones. You just never get to hear about them.

I was unable to find a Christian church that (a) does not discriminate against women, (b) does not discriminate against LGBTs, (c) repudiates war and violence, and (d) does not demand adherence to a Creed or Statement of Belief.

The United Church of Christ came closest; we were considering joining until we learned that there is an active anti-homosexual backlash in some congregations and that the Association of Western North Carolina does not ordain homosexuals. We were very impressed with the UCC congregation in Charlotte, but we were unable to be members of an organization (the UCC) that considers homophobia a valid option.

What happens, when you're looking for a religious congregation that is non-violent, non-creedal, and truly inclusive, is that you quickly find you're no longer looking at Christian churches.

 

[Green Gaia]

I was wondering how you look at your religion. Is it more that you give your faith a name close to what you believe so that others know what you are talking about?

No, not really. But I did intentionally seek out a community that held and affirmed values similar to mine.

Or is it more that you join a group and follow their rules completelly?

That would be hard for a UU to do...

 

[Aqualung]

I'm part of a group, and then I follow their rules. Since I believe to be part of the one true religion, any picking and choosing would be making what I'm following less than true.