Belief in God but not Jesus?

[cfer]

Just out of interest, is this a 'gut' instinct that makes you feel this way ? - or is there something deeper ? (just out of interest)

It's more of a 'gut' instinct than anything else. I don't know how to describe it. I can't get my heart and my head to agree, and that constant clash between the two is causing me considerable grief and stress.

It's weird. It's Christmas time now and when I listen to Christmas carols and hymns, I often get choked up. Same with attending a church service and hearing of the love Jesus had for us and the sacrifice he made. That really gets to me. But it's a fleeting thing. Any good story, when told with solemnity and emotion, can do that.

But the miracles, the turning of water into wine, the healing of lepers, making a blind man see....I just can't believe that stuff actually happened. It's not logical and consistent with what I've observed and experienced in my 31 years on Earth.

I want to believe. I just can't. I don't feel it truly deep down inside. Everytime I try, there's always that skeptical voice inside me that raises doubt and won't go away. I can't ignore that voice.

I think it's partly because I've always been wanting to experience the mystical, but have never seen any proof of it -- if that makes any sense. I want to experience the miracles, the magic -- not the parlor tricks but the real deal.

I get the feeling that this is just something I'll be debating and going back and forth on for my whole life.

Thanks for all your responses and suggestions!

 

[cfer]

Cfer,

Why not go to http://www.beliefnet.com and take their test to see which group you best fit with? Up at the top left of the page you'll see a link for 'Belief-o-matic'. That's the one. It will give you some idea of where you might fit. If you do take it, let us know how you made out.

I just took the test. I don't know how accurate it could be, though, because some of them I just picked the closest answer to what I felt. That's the problem with tests like those. They're good to get you thinking about some things, but not every thought, feeling or belief can be covered. However, it was still somewhat useful.

As Maize has suggested, I scored a 100% hit on UU. But after reading the little description of it, it doesn't feel quite right.

I also got a hit of 94% on Neo-Pagan, and the description of that seemed closer to my beliefs.

However, I decided I'm not going to classify myself at this time (or anytime soon) and just do a lot of research, finding things that work and those that don't.

 

[maggie2]

Cfer,

I think that is the wisest decision. Give yourself time to explore and question. Eventually it will fall into place. Good luck on your journey.

 

[GuentherBacon]

I wouldn't consider myself Jewish because I don't believe that God is vengeful and that strict, either.

I don't to come off as rude, but have you read the Bible? God is all sorts of vengeful and strict, and not just in the first five books that the Jewish have adopted as the Torah.

 

[soma]

You seem very sincere and I think you are being guided. Christian men and women without a spiritual experience just give us words, it is Christ consciousness that purifies the image of God in our minds, cures our spiritual blindness and opens our consciousness to the unity of all things. It takes possession of our wills so we no longer remain captive to our desires, passions and compulsions. Christ consciousness makes us capable of acting in the productive tranquility of love and spiritual freedom. By teaching us love Jesus perfects our minds in the likeness of pure consciousness by conforming us to Christ consciousness. This is more than the imitation of his virtues, but a union of consciousness that makes us the individuals, God intends us to be. To enter into this consciousness we must identify with Christ, the Father and all of his creation in one pure consciousness. You tears show you are tasting Christ consciousness enjoy the spiritual experience.

http://thinkunity.com

 

[Avi]

Cfer:
If you believe in the G-d of Israel, but do not believe in Jesus of Nazereth to be the Meshiach, or Muhammad as the last prophet of G-d, then you may consider yourself a Noachide, or Child of Noah.

According to many rabbinical and talmudic laws, G-d laid down 2 sets of laws for man to follow. We all know the commandments at Sinai, right? We usually associate them with the Jewish mitzvot (613 in all, according to the Talmud)? Well, many people have asked me what if you believed in the G-d of Israel, but not Jesus of Nazereth? I simply answer: You are a child of Noah; a Noachide. You see, as G-d commanded the Children of Israel, He also commanded all men not decendant of Avraham--i.e. decendant of Noach (children of Noah; Noachide). He commanded 7 laws, guaranteeing if a Noachide (a non-Jew. In other words everybody who isn't Jewish) were to follow these 7, he would be a righteous Gentile and share the Kingdom of Heaven with the Jews, equally.

What are these 7 laws? Well, here they are:
Avodah Zarah: Prohibition on idolatry.
Birchat HaShem: Prohibition on blasphemy and cursing the Name of G-d.
Shefichat Damim: Prohibition on murder.
Gezel: Prohibition on robbery and theft.
Gilui Arayot: Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations.
Ever Min HaChay: Prohibition on removing and eating a limb from a live animal.
Dinim: Requirement to establish a justice system and courts of law to enforce the other 6 laws.

If you look at my assigned religion, you will see: Noachide. However, I am studying to join the Jewish people. You may ask: Why commit yourself to all 613 mitzvot (commandments), when you are only expected to follow these 7? That is a good question, and I don't know why. I am compelled, which I will explain in a separate thread.

 

[constantine]

and if you have to ask your sister if you can borrow the tooth for a job interview. you might be a redneck.

 

[may]

Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth....John 4;23-24

Is that the kind of person you want to be?

 

[jewscout]

cfer:
as others have pointed out to you, one can not default to being Jewish, being Jewish is a way of life that you must either be born into or convert to.
that being said you can be a perfectly good, G-d believing Gentile and earn a place in the World to Come as easily (if not easier) than a jew.

PS: just a little FYI i do not see the G-d of the Torah as vengeful or cruel or whatever
i consider Him more as a father figure or even a partner.

 

[blueman]

I don't know if you can put a person who has those beliefs in any particular category. They believe in God, but have chosen not to beleive in the deity or divinity of Jesus Christ. On another note, God has not changed from one testament to another, from one generation to another. He is the same Loving, Merciful, Graceful, Forgiving and Just God today as He was from the beginning.

 

[Green Gaia]

I don't know if you can put a person who has those beliefs in any particular category. They believe in God, but have chosen not to beleive in the deity or divinity of Jesus Christ.

Yes you can, but I believe I've already answered that.

 

[mr.guy]

Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth....John 4;23-24

Is that the kind of person you want to be?

This has to be said: Arguments like this do a fantastic job of reducing the perception of christianity to nothing more than the chase for "the big knobby door prize of god!"

 

[DTrent]

Agnostic?? Sounds like it. You're looking, thinking, pondering but you're just not sure...about God - who He is, what kind of worship He wants, His history - and you're just not too sure about how Jesus fits into the picture since there's so much history on him.
The God of the Hebrew Scriptures? The God of the Christian-Greek Scriptures? WHO IS HE?!?? Is He the same God?!??
Good questions all, yes?

The God of the ancient Jews is the SAME GOD as that of the 1st century Christians.
He sent His son to explain Him, to draw the nations to Him since His own people (the Jews) had already rejected Him. They went back & forth with their loyalty. FINALLY, God said "ENOUGH" & rejected THEM becuz of their hard-heartedness. And so, Gentiles were grafted on. Yes, the God of the Jews was a loving peaceful God but so is the God of Christ. Why do I say that? Becuz they are one & the same. The God of the ancient Hebrews (Jews) is the same as the God of 1st century Christians. Psalms 83:18 will tell you His name.

One question to you - Have you already read the WHOLE Bible thru from Genesis to Rev?
It will help you to see the truth & to make a good decision. It's good to pray about it, too. Sincerity gets an answer...

I hope the best for you on your search...

 

[BruceDLimber]

The God of the ancient Jews is the SAME GOD as that of the 1st century Christians.

Wio is also the same as the God of the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Baha'is, the Zoroastrians, and more!

One God, with many names in the various cultures and languages....

Good stuff.

Regards,

Bruce

 

[Deut 13:1]

The God of the ancient Jews is the SAME GOD as that of the 1st century Christians.He sent His son to explain Him, to draw the nations to Him since His own people (the Jews) had already rejected Him. They went back & forth with their loyalty. FINALLY, God said "ENOUGH" & rejected THEM becuz of their hard-heartedness. And so, Gentiles were grafted on. Yes, the God of the Jews was a loving peaceful God but so is the God of Christ. Why do I say that? Becuz they are one & the same. The God of the ancient Hebrews (Jews) is the same as the God of 1st century Christians. Psalms 83:18 will tell you His name.

Please don't spout out such ignorance. The perverted idea of the gods of Christianity and the G-d of the Jews are not the same. Maybe from yer perspective they are, but to anyone with a minimal amount of knowledge of Judaism wouldn't say that.

Now addressing Psalm 83:18, יֵבֹשׁוּ וְיִבָּהֲלוּ עֲדֵי-עַד; וְיַחְפְּרוּ וְיֹאבֵדוּ
G-d's name is no where in there, I don't know what horrendous translation you're reading, but it's not there.

One question to you - Have you already read the WHOLE Bible thru from Genesis to Rev?
It will help you to see the truth & to make a good decision. It's good to pray about it, too. Sincerity gets an answer...

Why would I want to encourage people to waste time w/ what is seen by me as the NT fairy tale?

 

[jewscout]

He sent His son to explain Him, to draw the nations to Him since His own people (the Jews) had already rejected Him. They went back & forth with their loyalty. FINALLY, God said "ENOUGH" & rejected THEM becuz of their hard-heartedness.

i don't think G-d rejected the Nation of Israel. He made a covenant w/ the Patriarchs, one that was promised to their descendants and tho the jewish people may falter, He shall never forget them or the covenant and the promised redemption.

 

[JonM]

Forgive me for not having read the entire thread, but I have an opinion concerning this question:

Would you classify that as Jewish?

I don't think that belief in God, meaning the Abrahamic God, but not in Jesus as savior makes you Jewish by default. Though the Christian and Jewish Gods are, of course, textually linked, I think that God concepts, meaning the narrative explanations we offer for a wordless, non-dual, ultimate Reality, are cultural products, and therefore the Christian and Jewish Gods are not the same. In order to be Jewish, you must live Jewishly, and Jewishness is far from a purely metaphysical quality; it involves culture, ritual, and history that is unique. However, as a Reconstructionist, I do believe that one can become culturally Jewish if God calls one to do so, but if you don't think you're Jewish, you're definitely not. If you're moved to become Jewish, explore that, but otherwise I would look into more progressive Christian faiths like Quakerism or Unitarianism and see if those appeal to you.

As for this part:

I wouldn't consider myself Jewish because I don't believe that God is vengeful and that strict, either. (emphasis added)

Don't let that be the reason Judaism isn't for you. There is nothing intrinsic to Judaism that requires you to interpret the Torah that way.

 

[cfer]

I am really sorry. I didn't mean to come across as saying that Judaism is the default of Christianity, although when I reread my original question I realize that's how it came across to me.

I am deeply sorry if any of you got the impression that I thought Judaism is somehow less of a religion than Christianity or any other. I think they all have their merits as well as their shortcomings.

If I have offended you or your beliefs, please accept my heartfelt apologies.

 

[JonM]

I am really sorry. I didn't mean to come across as saying that Judaism is the default of Christianity, although when I reread my original question I realize that's how it came across to me.

I am deeply sorry if any of you got the impression that I thought Judaism is somehow less of a religion than Christianity or any other. I think they all have their merits as well as their shortcomings.

If I have offended you or your beliefs, please accept my heartfelt apologies.

Whoa whoa whoa, no offense taken whatsoever! Just answering the question, which I thought was an honest one with pretty reasonable grounds for asking. The second bit about the wrathful God of the Old Testament is something I'm more serious about, but it doesn't bother me that you understand the Torah that way. I just want to debunk the myth that the Jewish God is always stern and wrathful. I think of the Torah as a poem to be interpreted rather than an objective account to be followed to the letter, and for those of us (like me) who want a peaceful, loving God, there is plenty to take from the Torah to reinforce that belief as well.

 

[DTrent]

Wio is also the same as the God of the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Baha'is, the Zoroastrians, and more!

One God, with many names in the various cultures and languages....

Good stuff.

Regards,

Bruce

Uh..how is that?? Since the Hindus, etc. do not worship the God of the Bible and have many gods, HOW could the God of the Bible be the same god as of those other faiths?? The God of the Bible doesn't tolerate interfaith. Never has. Never will.
Have you perhaps read something different?

Peace -