Believers and Disbelievers

[Rajina]

No it says verse like it, that is all. You are extrapolating beyond the challenge by claiming it must be Arabic while it never says that. Beside the challenge itself is based on a fallacy thus God has fallacious reasoning.

Say: "If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another." [Qur'an 17:88]

And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'an) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful.[Qur'an 2:23]

And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allah (Lord of the heavens and the earth), but it is a confirmation of (the revelation) which was before it [i.e. the Taurat (Torah), and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.], and a full explanation of the Book (i.e. laws and orders, etc, decreed for mankind) - wherein there is no doubt from the the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns,and all that exists).

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it?" Say: "Bring then a surah (chapter) like unto it, and call upon whomsoever you can, besides Allah, if you are truthful!" [Qur'an 10:37-38]

Or they say, "He (Prophet Muhammad(P)) forged it (the Qur'an)." Say: "Bring you then ten forged surah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allah (to your help), if you speak the truth!" [Qur'an 11:13]

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it (this Qur'an)?" Nay! They believe not! Let them then produce a recital like unto it (the Qur'an) if they are truthful. [Qur'an 52:33-34]

 

[muhammad_isa]

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it (this Qur'an)?" Nay! They believe not! Let them then produce a recital like unto it (the Qur'an) if they are truthful. [Qur'an 52:33-34]

Well, I haven't seen a copy of this 'forged Qur'an' .. the real one is OK for me, anyhow

 

[YmirGF]

Sadly, I could not vote in your poll.

I have no doubt whatsoever that god exists in the minds of believers, however I don't put much credence into their perceptions.

 

[Shad]

Say: "If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another." [Qur'an 17:88]

And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'an) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful.[Qur'an 2:23]

And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allah (Lord of the heavens and the earth), but it is a confirmation of (the revelation) which was before it [i.e. the Taurat (Torah), and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.], and a full explanation of the Book (i.e. laws and orders, etc, decreed for mankind) - wherein there is no doubt from the the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns,and all that exists).

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it?" Say: "Bring then a surah (chapter) like unto it, and call upon whomsoever you can, besides Allah, if you are truthful!" [Qur'an 10:37-38]

Or they say, "He (Prophet Muhammad(P)) forged it (the Qur'an)." Say: "Bring you then ten forged surah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allah (to your help), if you speak the truth!" [Qur'an 11:13]

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it (this Qur'an)?" Nay! They believe not! Let them then produce a recital like unto it (the Qur'an) if they are truthful. [Qur'an 52:33-34]

Still shifting burden of proof. It is makes an argument from ignorance in which the presupposition is accepted as fact without showing it is then challenging people to show that it isn't. Allah is fallacious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
http://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialscien...ER_5_ARGUMENTS_EXPERIENCE/Burden-of-Proof.htm

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Men in general can take decisions without being emotionally affected that much while women in general take into consideration other factors that are related to emotions that most men overlook.

HAHAHAHA!

This is not what I say, but this is what the psychologists say. Please do some reading on this.

How old are your sources?

To see the real subjugation and oppression of women, you just have to open your eyes and look around our modern society were women are commoditized and objectified and the value of a women is measured based on her sex appeal, figure, the harmful cosmetics that she apply and the costly accessories that she hang on herself.

Men experience that too, though.

There are roles assigned to females by their nature that cannot be undertaken by males.

Such as? If you're discussing pregnancy, it hasn't been for lack of trying. We women have more of a chance having babies without men, but with the right technical prowess, men can also have babies, but that is still an unavailable option (unless you're a trans guy).

And you didn't answer my question, can equality be achieved by forcing women to work the same way as men when women already faces a lot of stress and difficulties that men do not face?

We're not as fragile as you think we are.

A small correction: I am not 'he'.. I am 'she'

It always bothers me to see chicks with patriarchal BS jammed into their heads.

 

[FearGod]

HAHAHAHA!


How old are your sources?


Men experience that too, though.


Such as? If you're discussing pregnancy, it hasn't been for lack of trying. We women have more of a chance having babies without men, but with the right technical prowess, men can also have babies, but that is still an unavailable option (unless you're a trans guy).


We're not as fragile as you think we are.


It always bothers me to see chicks with patriarchal BS jammed into their heads.

Which do you think is a better animal, the human or the donkey ?

 

[Rajina]

Still shifting burden of proof. It is makes an argument from ignorance in which the presupposition is accepted as fact without showing it is then challenging people to show that it isn't. Allah is fallacious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
http://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialscien...ER_5_ARGUMENTS_EXPERIENCE/Burden-of-Proof.htm

An argument from ignorance is such an argument that asserts a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false. Does the Quran make this kind of argument? Not at all. Quran provides us a very simple way to disprove its divinity. The Quran actually simplifies the job of those who were and are desperately trying to prove Islam to be false. To disprove Quran's divinity they just have to produce three simple sentences like that of the smallest chapter in Qur'an.

Something which you are ignoring or you are ignorant of is the fact that there is no burden of proof on Qur'an. From the time Qur'an was revealed until now, Islam is growing at a very fast rate and lot of people are coming to Islam day by day. On the other hand,from the time Qur'an was revealed until now, there had been and still there are some elite classes of people who have an alarming need to stop the spread of Islam, because Islam is against their big businesses and their business tactics. They seeked all sorts of ways to destroy Islam, when all that they had to do was just produce three verses.

 

[Rajina]

How old are your sources?

Here is a two weeks old research paper published in international journal of psychology:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijop.12265/abstract

Some other sources:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/apps.12040/abstract

Men experience that too, though.

Men experience that.. But far far lesser compared to that experienced by women and its effects on them are also different.

Such as? If you're discussing pregnancy, it hasn't been for lack of trying. We women have more of a chance having babies without men, but with the right technical prowess, men can also have babies, but that is still an unavailable option (unless you're a trans guy).

I agree with you. And there was a lady who became pregnant and gave birth to a baby without any male intervention and without the help of any technology.

But however the role of women as a mother cannot be transferred to men. That's what I meant by saying ' roles assigned to females by their nature that cannot be undertaken by males.'

We're not as fragile as you think we are.

Yes.. We are not fragile. We are strong enough and patient enough to bare all our stresses and difficulties and we have become used to it. That's why most of us don't recognize the inequality .

 

[firedragon]

Which do you think is a better animal, the human or the donkey ?

Donkey. They dont kiss ***.

 

[FearGod]

Donkey. They dont kiss ***.

The creator for both (humans and donkeys) is one.

 

[McBell]

An argument from ignorance is such an argument that asserts a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false. Does the Quran make this kind of argument? Not at all. Quran provides us a very simple way to disprove its divinity. The Quran actually simplifies the job of those who were and are desperately trying to prove Islam to be false. To disprove Quran's divinity they just have to produce three simple sentences like that of the smallest chapter in Qur'an.

Something which you are ignoring or you are ignorant of is the fact that there is no burden of proof on Qur'an. From the time Qur'an was revealed until now, Islam is growing at a very fast rate and lot of people are coming to Islam day by day. On the other hand,from the time Qur'an was revealed until now, there had been and still there are some elite classes of people who have an alarming need to stop the spread of Islam, because Islam is against their big businesses and their business tactics. They seeked all sorts of ways to destroy Islam, when all that they had to do was just produce three verses.

Kent Hovind Challenges only serve to show how desperate the challenger is.

 

[Rajina]

Kent Hovind Challenges only serve to show how desperate the challenger is.

What does Kent Hovind Challenge have to do with the challenge of Quran?

 

[YmirGF]

What does Kent Hovind Challenge have to do with the challenge of Quran?

The challenge is meaningless because no self-respecting Muslim would EVER admit that anything put forward was superior to the Qur'an.

 

[McBell]

What does Kent Hovind Challenge have to do with the challenge of Quran?

They are both empty, meaningless, challenges that serve no purpose other than to make the challenger feel better about their beliefs.
Well, that is not exactly true.
I mean, they do also reveal the bias, prejudice, irrationality, and desperation of the challenger.

 

[Shad]

An argument from ignorance is such an argument that asserts a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false. Does the Quran make this kind of argument?

The challenge is just such a fallacy as it makes a claim that the text is from Allah and to show it is not other people must demonstrate it isn't. This is just a shifting burden of proof.

Not at all. Quran provides us a very simple way to disprove its divinity. The Quran actually simplifies the job of those who were and are desperately trying to prove Islam to be false. To disprove Quran's divinity they just have to produce three simple sentences like that of the smallest chapter in Qur'an.

Which is just such a fallacy as the divinity of it has not be shown to be true but merely claimed.

Something which you are ignoring or you are ignorant of is the fact that there is no burden of proof on Qur'an.

Nonsense. The Quran makes claims thus is subject to the burden of proof.

From the time Qur'an was revealed until now, Islam is growing at a very fast rate and lot of people are coming to Islam day by day.

Ad populum fallacy

On the other hand,from the time Qur'an was revealed until now, there had been and still there are some elite classes of people who have an alarming need to stop the spread of Islam, because Islam is against their big businesses and their business tactics.

Baseless assertion.

They seeked all sorts of ways to destroy Islam, when all that they had to do was just produce three verses.

Tinfoil hat speculation and repeating the fallacy again.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Nonsense. The Quran makes claims thus is subject to the burden of proof.

Almighty God has no reason to prove anything. If He had, He could 'shout from the sky' and destroy nations etc.
Simply, the Qur'an is claimed to be a revelation. You may believe it or not as you like, for whatever reason(s). Almighty God knows what is in our hearts/minds. Those who are sincere have nothing to fear

 

[McBell]

Almighty God has no reason to prove anything.

Then there is no reason to take him seriously.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Then there is no reason to take him seriously.

The reason comes from within..
If you have no reason, then you would either be agnostic or atheist

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The reason comes from within..
If you have no reason, then you would either be agnostic or atheist

Or you believe in other gods.

 

[Shad]

Almighty God has no reason to prove anything.

Your presupposition is not a fact and does nothing to remove the burden of proof on the claim. If God does not care enough about evidence then God's judgement of people is frivolous as is Islam

Simply, the Qur'an is claimed to be a revelation.

Claims require justification which you have failed to supply.

You may believe it or not as you like, for whatever reason(s).

Again your presupposition, it isn't true until demonstrated which you have yet to do without using a fallacy

Almighty God knows what is in our hearts/minds. Those who are sincere have nothing to fear

I have nothing to fear from a book that uses fallacious arguments as a human would make such a mistake not a God. A God that understands logic would agree with my points.