Believers in Hell?

[GreenKepi]

For those who believe in a place called Hell; may I ask you a question?

In Revelation 21:4 where it states: “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away".

All these things are gone”? Does that not appear to be correct?

It doesn't say “but”...not in Hell. All things mean, “all things”.

So then, there cannot be a place as Hell. It does not say, “Except in Hell” there will still be pain. It doesn't say that sorrow and crying will only exist in the “Lake of Fire”.

 

[dannerz]

Humans can make hells. So can spirits.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

For those who believe in a place called Hell; may I ask you a question?

In Revelation 21:4 where it states: “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away".

All these things are gone”? Does that not appear to be correct?

It doesn't say “but”...not in Hell. All things mean, “all things”.

So then, there cannot be a place as Hell. It does not say, “Except in Hell” there will still be pain. It doesn't say that sorrow and crying will only exist in the “Lake of Fire”.

He will wipe every tear from "their" eyes, them being those who reside in the heavenly Jerusalem, the people of God.

Both the ESV and KJV render the end of verse 4 as "the former things have passed away". I don't see how "all things" gets pushed into here. There is no more death or mourning or pain in the new creation, where God's people reside, this is clear from the context of heaven coming down to earth, of God residing with His people.

 

[JayJayDee]

He will wipe every tear from "their" eyes, them being those who reside in the heavenly Jerusalem, the people of God.

Both the ESV and KJV render the end of verse 4 as "the former things have passed away". I don't see how "all things" gets pushed into here. There is no more death or mourning or pain in the new creation, where God's people reside, this is clear from the context of heaven coming down to earth, of God residing with His people.

I am interested in how people envision "heaven coming down to earth"
Where do you get the idea that heaven comes to earth? The two are entirely different realms. One is an invisible place inhabited by spirit creatures and the other is a material world inhabited by beings of flesh and blood.

Where will I find this notion of 'heaven coming to earth' so that earth becomes heaven?

 

[bird]

For those who believe in a place called Hell; may I ask you a question?

In Revelation 21:4 where it states: “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away".

All these things are gone”? Does that not appear to be correct?

It doesn't say “but”...not in Hell. All things mean, “all things”.

So then, there cannot be a place as Hell. It does not say, “Except in Hell” there will still be pain. It doesn't say that sorrow and crying will only exist in the “Lake of Fire”.

I think this is a good point. I see hell and fire in the Bible as simply destruction. You could say that it is permanent only in the sense that destruction would be final for the unsaved with no chance to exist again. The verse above (Rev 21:4) may be speaking about the situation simply for the saved, who no longer have death, or it could be talking about no death anywhere because even the unsaved are gone, destroyed.

 

[bird]

I am interested in how people envision "heaven coming down to earth"
Where do you get the idea that heaven comes to earth? The two are entirely different realms. One is an invisible place inhabited by spirit creatures and the other is a material world inhabited by beings of flesh and blood.

Where will I find this notion of 'heaven coming to earth' so that earth becomes heaven?

I see heaven as being God's throne, since the Bible tells us that "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne" (Isaiah 66:1a). However, God resides in people's hearts: " until the day dawn, and the daystar arise in your hearts:" (2 Peter 1:19b). The daystar is Jesus and Jesus (the lamb) is on the throne (Rev 5). It is not too far of a stretch to say that whenever God is on the throne in people's hearts, that is heaven. This seems to be backed up in scripture that says that God sends out the angels to gather the elect from one end of heaven to the other. "and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Mat 24:31) In this case, the Bible seems to refer to heaven as a word defining the elect (those who are saved). The earth in the Bible is defined as "the dry land" and also as "my footstool". This is a little more tricky to get at, but dry in the Bible usually is talking about the absence of the word of God. A footstool is a place for resting one's feet, in this case God's feet, and feet can be described as carrying the gospel in the Bible (Isa 52:7). During the tribulation period, there is a period of dryness from God's word, perhaps in the congregations. Noah, who name means 'rest' is featured as being a spiritual survivor of a tribulation scenario. The earth is associated with the house of God in scripture. Any ideas relating to this are for you to decide.

 

[rusra02]

For those who believe in a place called Hell; may I ask you a question?

In Revelation 21:4 where it states: “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away".

All these things are gone”? Does that not appear to be correct?

It doesn't say “but”...not in Hell. All things mean, “all things”.

So then, there cannot be a place as Hell. It does not say, “Except in Hell” there will still be pain. It doesn't say that sorrow and crying will only exist in the “Lake of Fire”.

I believe the Bible Hell is mankind's common Grave. As such, it will one day be emptied and done way with. Revelation 20:14,15 says; " And death and the Grave ("hell" AV) were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire."