PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
For a religious person, does the path to having a benevolent spirit entail giving up materialism? To what extent?
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Benevolence and materialism
- Thread starter PoetPhilosopher
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PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
Or to word it in another way, does Right Hand Path eventually lead to one feeling the need to give up many of their material belongings?
Renunciation has no hard and fast, and would look different to each person. And not all who are very religious are renouncers. Look at Evangelical Prosperity Gospel for instance.
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PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
I see. I'm familiar with what you mentioned.
Hedonism - Wikipedia
IMO, hedonism embraces materialism.
Still it cautions wisdom in the pursuit of pleasure. In some cases the pursuit of material pleasure can cause pain which is to be avoided.
I consider benevolence and materialism sperate issues but related in our nature as humans. Humans are materialist in a fundamental way to a degree for survival humans, and a hierarchy in communities and tribes are often separated by a degree of materialism and pf course, nature is materialist in a material world. Also human nature is to a degree benevolent as part of the cooperation for the sense of community for the survival of the family, community and tribe,
There is significant evidence that benevolence has been a part of human nature going back to the Neolithic where the remains of individuals with handicaps illness and the elderly were cared for unitl they naturally passed.
Benevolence can be materialist when someone donates large amounts of money and receives some sort of recognition for their efforts.
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vulcanlogician
Well-Known Member
I liked this answer. Even materialists endorse renunciation sometimes.
I'm reminded of a YouTube vid I saw a month or so ago that discussed a Satanic approach to alcoholics anonymous. The Satanists in the video talked about rejecting the idea that one is powerless to deal with addiction... stuff like that. I thought it was worth mentioning since the term "right hand path" was used. Even the left hand path has a need to pursue renunciation.
I would consider hedonism to be a separate issue than materialism. Some =one can be materialist and reject hedonism and visa versa.
PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
I've tried to experience the left and right hand path before. Not Satanism, though.
To use an analogy, I consider the left hand path like standing on one leg instead of two - it'll cripple you yet give you brand new balance, the harder of the two paths.
Just pointing it out as an philosophy, not as a catch all.
vulcanlogician
Well-Known Member
That's true. Hedonism and materialism are not related. (One is metaphysics, the other is ethics.)
But at the same time, a hedonist can be a materialist. There is no conflict between the two ways of thinking. A materialist can think that the pursuit of pleasure is good and that pain is to be avoided (hedonism). And, as Nakosis pointed out, hedonists are aware that some pleasure pursuits result in more pain than they're worth. Therefore, materialism can lead to concern about benevolence and renunciation via hedonism.
Hedonism isn't the only way. But all we need is one way in order to demonstrate that materialism is not at odds with benevolence or renunciation.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Give up attachment is the key
Renunciation of the world with its material entanglements is considered a key virtue in both Hindu, Jain and Buddhist praxis. Though the focus is more on the renunciation of attachment rather than physical renunciation. While many would consider that both physical and mental renunciation to go hand in hand, this may not be the case. For example, one exemplar of mental rather than formal renunciation is the concept of a sage-king, a king who lives in an austere manner renouncing personal luxuries but still governs the country and its wealth on behalf of the citizens. That path is difficult, but is considered highly advanced and virtuous, if walked.
Gandhi came very close to this ideal, in my opinion.
I have difficulty with belief systems or philosophies that promote views 'Renunciation of the world with its material; entanglements as a virtue, or even 'renunciation of attachment, because the various forms the renunciation of physical things or attachments to whatever is a form of reverse materialism gives recognition and partitioning in the illusion that the nature of our existence whether physical or spiritual can be divided or artificially separated from our nature.
The reality is we are what we are an indivisible part of all of our existence.
How about the giving up illusion of being able to renounce nor separate anything from the nature of our existence which is inherently cannot be separated from our human nature.
I believe asceticism is a form of reverse materialism that there is an illusion of separation from our natural human nature,
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Well, middle of the road is boring, but tends to work in long run. At least for me.
Well, middle of the road is boring, but tends to work in long run. At least for me.
Boring?!?!? Like;y not boring nor boring.
I believe it is a matter of reality perspective of both knowns and unknowns. I consider it the Buddhist Middle Way, and the rejection of both efforts at attachments and the asceticism of rejection of attachments. Simply accepting the world and ourselves as it is going from there,
stvdv
Veteran Member
That is the next step, but only after you managed the first step
e.g.:
Alcoholic or drugs addict claiming "It's an illusion to renounce, come let us endulge"...makes no sense, does it?
i do not believe there are steps nor a process. It is simply the view of the 'Middle Way.' The symbol of the 'Middle Way' is the Chinese symbol of mountain called 'shan.' Simply climbing the middle mountain you can see both mountains.
Mot a good example.