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Bernie Sanders Running for US President

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I don't know, any searching seems to yield no results to accurate studies detailing all the different factors between then and now. How do you know they were lower? Perhaps that maybe the source I'm looking for.
I have no source. I only recall reading about the complex methods of avoidance, eg, trusts, charitable donations which gave greater deductions than actual cost, evasion. But even I recall how real estate investment was so different back in the days of accelerated depreciation. Investors looking to shelter income would buy properties, get huge deductions, & then when mostly depreciated, sell them to buy replacements. The trick was that upon sale, the profit (price minus basis) was taxed at a much lower capital gains rate. This resulted in high price inflation, which encouraged more real estate investment. It bubblized the market because one didn't need to make a real profit to make real money.
Probably not. So, oh no, Sanders has fallen into the category as being a flawed human being like all the other presidential candidates. I wonder where in Rand Paul's dealings with running an eye clinic as a professional clinic first turned into accurate sentiments about the state of national economics. The economy probably does work like a human eye, come to think of it. I mean maintaining a staff of 20 people must be a real enlightening process to the realm of banking, finance, manufacturing, etc.
i actually don't know much about Rand Paul.
http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/fed_individual_rate_history_adjusted.pdf
According to the tax-foundation, the rate of 48% applied to incomes at 103k, and 91% to income 1.4 million and above, generally in the years of the eighties. Just to clarify, that's not "nearly all." It's a lot yeah. I don't know what those comes out to if you applied all deductions taken.
It would be nearly all for high earners. But of course, most would game the tax code to avoid it...which harms the economy by making investments more about tax avoidance than productivity, & by imposing inefficiencies, eg, high planning costs, inflexibility (illiquidity) of investments.
As far as off-shoring money, I would expect nothing less from a business owner. They are generally the worst people I've ever met in my life, so to see one act selflessly instead in the interests in the nation they so often proclaim to love would not be surprising to me for a bit.
They're doing what government incentivizes. Tis no worse than ordinary folk who buy a home
as an inflation hedge & to get tax deductable living expenses (mortgage interest, property taxes.
Neither act in the "country's best interest", if that means they arrange their affairs to legally pay less tax.
Hellfire & damnation!....I'd off-shore my money if it worked for me.....the fed doesn't deserve my tax money.
I'd lift me kilt, & show'm what a Scot wears & how seldom he bathes!
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I have no source. I only recall reading about the complex methods of avoidance, eg, trusts, charitable donations which gave greater deductions than actual cost, evasion. But even I recall how real estate investment was so different back in the days of accelerated depreciation. Investors looking to shelter income would buy properties, get huge deductions, & then when mostly depreciated, sell them to buy replacements. The trick was that upon sale, the profit (price minus basis) was taxed at a much lower capital gains rate. This resulted in high price inflation, which encouraged more real estate investment. It bubblized the market because one didn't need to make a real profit to make real money.

i actually don't know much about Rand Paul.

Neither do I, other than him being an ophthalmologist. That's one right one, right? Eye doctor. I actually like Rand Paul better than establishment GOP candidates, and Tea-Party. Hell, the right would probably have a fighting chance at winning elections again if it wasn't so pushing trying to push religion, end abortion, end gay marriage, and even more trigger happy foreign policy than a typical democrat, a lack of government transparency, willing to walk all over the Bill of Rights, etc.

It would be nearly all for high earners. But of course, most would game the tax code to avoid it...which harms the economy by making investments more about tax avoidance than productivity, & by imposing inefficiencies, eg, high planning costs, inflexibility (illiquidity) of investments.

Personally, I'm not really concerned about people who pull in a seven figure income, as much as I am 8 and 9 figures.

They're doing what government incentivizes. Tis no worse than ordinary folk who buy a home
as an inflation hedge & to get tax deductable living expenses (mortgage interest, property taxes.
Neither act in the "country's best interest", if that means they arrange their affairs to legally pay less tax.
Hellfire & damnation!....I'd off-shore my money if it worked for me.....the fed doesn't deserve my tax money.
I'd lift me kilt, & show'm what a Scot wears & how seldom he bathes!

I just said that to try and bother you. The owners of businesses I've worked under have ranged form nice and capable to benevolent and incompetent. As far as incentives go, there are often incentives in life to do unethical things. Heck, I'd make a lot more money selling cocaine than working for the **** bags I do.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Personally, I'm not really concerned about people who pull in a seven figure income, as much as I am 8 and 9 figures.
I'm concerned about all.
High earners have great value to us, & to discourage investment & productivity harms us all.
I just said that to try and bother you. The owners of businesses I've worked under have ranged form nice and capable to benevolent and incompetent. As far as incentives go, there are often incentives in life to do unethical things. Heck, I'd make a lot more money selling cocaine than working for the **** bags I do.
I say tax avoidance is ethical.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I'm concerned about all.
High earners have great value to us, & to discourage investment & productivity harms us all.

Considering that the 99% of the new wealth generated between 09-12 went to the top 1 percent, while the top 10 percent complains about paying 67 percent of the total tax burden, I don't see the system as is as contributing significantly to American productivity and certainly even less to wages, and the economic system as is certainly has discouraged me investing anything in really any American business, or actually contributing meaningfully to the country. So, ebb and flow, I suppose.

I say tax avoidance is ethical.

This is peculiar considering most on the economic right generally are very concerned about the fact %50 of the nation are paying no, or close to no taxes, especially as an indication of laziness, etc.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Considering that the 99% of the new wealth generated between 09-12 went to the top 1 percent, while the top 10 percent complains about paying 67 percent of the total tax burden, I don't see the system as is as contributing significantly to American productivity and certainly even less to wages, and the economic system as is certainly has discouraged me investing anything in really any American business, or actually contributing meaningfully to the country. So, ebb and flow, I suppose.
I see 2 big issues:
1) Total tax burden upon an individual
2) How that burden is applied
Issue #1 is that we're over-taxed because our money is wasted on unproductive endeavors ("endeavour" for Canuckistanians), eg, wars, foreign aid.
But for purposes of this discussion, let's presume we want to get the same amount of revenue, & address how to get it.....which is issue #2.

There are many ways to tax us....high marginal rates with lots'o deductions, low marginal rates with few deductions, VAT taxes, etc. I oppose the high marginal rate approach. It reduces the incentive to be productive. And historically, they've been offset by intentional legal tax dodge schemes. (Kennedys gotta stay wealthy, you know.) A better way is to have low marginal rates, especially for low income people, without extensive tax deductions. This results in a greater incentive to produce & invest, while reducing the overhead of complex avoidance strategies. We also have more efficient markets because of less distortion.

An example:
Some businesses erect buildings which are designed to be disassembled once per year for better tax treatment (both fed & local). This yearly disassembly is expensive & serves no purpose other than a reduced tax bill. But it reduces actual income, & wastes effort.
It's much like ancient taxes on windows & roofs....people just had smaller & fewer windows, & made removable roofs.

This is peculiar considering most on the economic right generally are very concerned about the fact %50 of the nation are paying no, or close to no taxes, especially as an indication of laziness, etc.
I'll bet that most on the economic right....or better yet, "economic classic liberals" favor a major tax overhaul.
You should all put me in charge to do it.
I'll need dictatorial powers though...Congress is too stupid & corrupt to go along.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Considering that the 99% of the new wealth generated between 09-12 went to the top 1 percent, while the top 10 percent complains about paying 67 percent of the total tax burden, I don't see the system as is as contributing significantly to American productivity and certainly even less to wages, and the economic system as is certainly has discouraged me investing anything in really any American business, or actually contributing meaningfully to the country. So, ebb and flow, I suppose.



This is peculiar considering most on the economic right generally are very concerned about the fact %50 of the nation are paying no, or close to no taxes, especially as an indication of laziness, etc.
Yes, and "trickle down" has only proven to actually be "trickle on". As any honest economist will say, if people at the lower income levels have more money, that is the best stimulus money can buy, largely because they are more apt to spend a higher percent of their income, plus they tend to spend more locally. However, there are a significant number of highly partisan, dishonest right-wing economists who much prefer to push "voodoo economics" than real economics.

If the people spend, the investors will invest-- Economics 101.
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
I see 2 big issues:
1) Total tax burden upon an individual
2) How that burden is applied
Issue #1 is that we're over-taxed because our money is wasted on unproductive endeavors ("endeavour" for Canuckistanians), eg, wars, foreign aid.
But for purposes of this discussion, let's presume we want to get the same amount of revenue, & address how to get it.....which is issue #2.

There are many ways to tax us....high marginal rates with lots'o deductions, low marginal rates with few deductions, VAT taxes, etc. I oppose the high marginal rate approach. It reduces the incentive to be productive. And historically, they've been offset by intentional legal tax dodge schemes. (Kennedys gotta stay wealthy, you know.) A better way is to have low marginal rates, especially for low income people, without extensive tax deductions. This results in a greater incentive to produce & invest, while reducing the overhead of complex avoidance strategies. We also have more efficient markets because of less distortion.

An example:
Some businesses erect buildings which are designed to be disassembled once per year for better tax treatment (both fed & local). This yearly disassembly is expensive & serves no purpose other than a reduced tax bill. But it reduces actual income, & wastes effort.
It's much like ancient taxes on windows & roofs....people just had smaller & fewer windows, & made removable roofs.


I'll bet that most on the economic right....or better yet, "economic classic liberals" favor a major tax overhaul.
You should all put me in charge to do it.
I'll need dictatorial powers though...Congress is too stupid & corrupt to go along.
have you seen how much is spent on corporate wellfair?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Ah, ever the benevolent dictator!
I'm eminently qualified to rule you all.....
- I'm practical.
- I'm experienced.
- I don't cheat on Mrs Revolt.....& no one would want me to.
- I don't want fame.
- I don't want power over others.
- I hate war, but I'll provide for defense.
- I have many failures under me belt. That's called "experience".
- I don't like waste. You wouldn't see me jetsetting all over the world on your nickel.
- I'd look fabulous!
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I'm eminently qualified to rule you all.....
- I'm practical.
- I'm experienced.
- I don't cheat on Mrs Revolt.....& no one would want me to.
- I don't want fame.
- I don't want power over others.
- I hate war, but I'll provide for defense.
- I have many failures under me belt. That's called "experience".
- I don't like waste. You wouldn't see me jetsetting all over the world on your nickel.
- I'd look fabulous!

What is Mrs Revoltingest prepared to do as first lady?
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I was going to get to your post, but I've been on break from classes, and I'm actively trying to think about taxes as little as possible for the moment.

I DO HOWEVER HAVE BERNIE NEWS:

"
John Davis remembers a meeting in 1986 when Bernie Sanders, then the mayor of Burlington, Vermont, confronted the owners of the city’s largest affordable-housing complex. The federal program that had subsidized the Northgate Apartments for 20 years had a loophole that allowed the landlords to convert the buildings into market rentals or luxury condos.

“Bernie pounded his fist on the conference table in his office and told the owners, ‘Over my dead body are you going to displace 336 working families. You are not going to convert Northgate into luxury housing,’” recalled Davis, who was Sanders’s key housing aide.

Under Sanders’s leadership, the city adopted a number of laws to stifle the owners’ plans. One ordinance required apartment owners to give residents two years’ notice before a condo conversion. Others gave residents a pre-emptive right to buy the units and prohibited landlords from bulldozing buildings unless they replaced them with the same number of affordable units. (These measures lowered the selling price of the property.) Sanders then worked with the state government and Senator Patrick Leahy to get the $12 million needed to purchase and rehabilitate the buildings. The city allocated funds to help the tenants hire an organizer, form the Northgate Residents Association, and start the process of converting the complex to resident ownership. Today, Northgate Apartments is owned by the tenants and has long-term restrictions to keep the buildings affordable for working families.

The battle over Northgate Apartments illustrates Sanders’s general approach to governing. In addressing this and many other issues, he encouraged grassroots organizing, adopted local laws to protect the vulnerable, challenged the city’s business power brokers, and worked collaboratively with other politicians to create a more livable city.

Now that Sanders is running for president, the eight years he spent as Burlington’s chief executive (1981–89) will be under close scrutiny. Although President Obama recently joked at the White House Correspondents’ Association dinner that Sanders is a “pot-smoking socialist,” he was actually a hardworking, pragmatic, effective mayor who helped transform Vermont’s largest city (population: 38,000) into a thriving town.

Thanks to the enduring influence of the progressive climate that Sanders and his allies helped to create in Burlington, the city’s largest housing development is now resident-owned, its largest supermarket is a consumer-owned cooperative, one of its largest private employers is worker-owned, and most of its people-oriented waterfront is publicly owned. Its publicly owned utility, the Burlington Electric Department, recently announced that Burlington is the first American city of any decent size to run entirely on renewable electricity.

Burlington is now widely heralded as an environmentally friendly, lively, and livable city with a thriving economy, including one of the lowest jobless rates in the country. Burlingtonians give Sanders credit for steering the city in a new direction that, despite early skepticism, proved to be broadly popular with voters.

A growing number of cities—including Seattle, New York, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Newark, and others—are now led by progressive mayors. They are adopting municipal minimum wage laws, requiring developers to build mixed-income housing, strengthening regulations against corporate polluters, and enacting other policies to address the nation’s growing economic inequality and environmental crises.

What they can learn from Sanders is that good ideas are not sufficient. Creating more livable cities requires nurturing a core of activist organizations that can build long-term support for progressive municipal policies."

What Kind of Mayor Was Bernie Sanders? | The Nation


Sen. Bernie Sanders is often characterized by the media as an out of the mainstream presidential candidate, but a new CBS/New York Times poll revealed that 80% of Republicans agree with Sanders on the issue of getting money out of politics.

The CBS/NYT poll found that:

– 80% of Republicans believe that money has too much influence in our politics.



– 54% believed that most of the time candidates directly help those who gave money to them.

– 81% of Republicans felt that the campaign finance system needed fundamental changes (45%) or a complete rebuild (36%).

– 64% are pessimistic that changes will be made to reform the campaign finance system.

– 71% want to limit the amount that individuals can give to campaigns.

– 73% felt that super PAC spending should be limited by law.

– 76% thought that superPACs should be required to disclose their donors.
All of these positions are held by Bernie Sanders, and the opinion of the majority on each question is the exact opposite of the reasoning used by the majority of the Supreme Court in the Citizens United decision.


Poll Finds: 80% Of REPUBLICANS Agree With Bernie Sanders On Citizens United


MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — A presidential candidate is scheduled to hold his first rally in Minnesota Sunday morning.

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, an independent politician since 1979, is seeking the democratic nomination, and will likely try to pull support from liberals who are disillusioned with the Clintons.

Sen. Sanders will be hosting a town hall meeting Sunday morning at the Minneapolis American Indian Center on East Franklin Avenue. More than 3,000 people have already registered to attend the event on Sen. Sanders’ campaign website.

Bernie Sanders To Hold Town Hall Meeting In Mpls. « CBS Minnesota

Friday on “The Alan Colmes Show,” Alan welcomed the co-founders of Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream, Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, to talk about why they have thrown their support behind Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and his run for President in 2016.

Cohen and Greenfield, who introduced Sen. Sanders at his campaign kickoff earlier this week and donated ice cream to the crowd, talked about their long association with Sen. Sanders, what a Bernie Sanders-inspired flavored ice cream would taste like, and their commitment to fare wages for employees:

COLMES: Ben, what’s your reaction when people say, and I’m guilty of having said this too, well I’m not sure that he could win. What are the chances he can actually get the nomination and go on and win the Presidency? What’s the purpose of the candidacy? What’s your reaction when you hear that typical argument about Bernie Sanders?

COHEN: He’s a long shot, but so were Ben and Jerry. Every once in a while long shots come in. You know the thing about Bernie is that he’s a populist, and if the policies that he’s supporting, healthcare for all, college for all, putting people back to work, are things that support millions and millions and millions of Americans, the huge majority of Americans. And if they just get behind him, he’ll win.

Ben & Jerry: We Were Long Shots Just Like Bernie Sanders Once | Alan Colmes Radio Show

Joining the ranks of stuffed bears honoring presidential candidates Hillary Clinton, John McCain, and Barack Obama, a Bernie Sanders bear was released last week by the Vermont Teddy Bear company, in an announcement they called a “campaign” that went out on the same day the Vermont senator declared his run for POTUS.

As of Sunday, “several hundred” orders had been placed for the Bernie Sanders bear, according Jason Baer, vice president of sales and marketing for Vermont Teddy Bear.

“We will probably wait until the actual party nominees to make the other candidates,” said Baer. “We could not resist jumping in earlier with Bernie, as it’s not very often a candidate from Vermont runs!”

Hundreds order Bernie Sanders Look-Alike Teddy Bear - VTDigger

Following recent media attention showcasing Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) is adding to his popularity and drawing large crowds during his travels through Iowa, a new study reveals he’s also the only presidential candidate – either Republican or Democrat – to drastically increase his internet presence across multiple media platforms.

“The only announced candidate to improve on his/her net sentiment post-announcement was Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. His formal announcement received virtually no attention, and then he received boosts from appearances on network television talk programs on two successive Sundays –the inspiration behind the title of our report: ‘Media Weekends at Bernie’s (and other highlights of the first wave of presidential candidate announcements),’” noted a press release from SHIFT Communications, Zignal Labs’ public relations agency – the company that conducted the analysis.

The study comes from George Washington University’s Graduate School of Political Management and Zignal Labs, which joined together and launched the Public Echoes Of Rhetoric In America (PEORIA) Project. It examines how American voters have reacted to political messages from formal campaign announcements.

Sanders' Popularity Growing Across the Internet, Study Suggests - Breitbart

A candidate worth listening to

Thanks for your article on Sen. Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign. I hope the Times will tell us more about the achievements of this remarkable man, whom Vice President Joe Biden described as the conscience of the Senate.

Representing a small state, he has worked tirelessly for the rights of our veterans, has fought for better wages and working conditions, and works to bring jobs back from overseas.

He also is a dedicated advocate for seniors and has submitted a bill to extend Medicare to cover dental care, pointing out that about 25 percent of all Americans over 65 have no teeth — and this in the world's richest country.

He will have a great deal to say in the coming months about our country and its problems, and much of it will probably be very different from what other candidates say. I hope to see more in the Times.

Wednesday's letters: Sanders a candidate worth listening to | Tampa Bay Times

clintoninvite.png


Hillary Clinton is Charging $1,000 to Join Her ‘Grassroots’ Campaign
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I want a celebrity death match between Bernie & Hillary.
She might be the war mongerer, but I'll wager Bernie could clean her clock!
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Yet the bill's Senate sponsor is Vermont's Bernie Sanders. That matters quite a lot in June 2015. On Thursday morning, Sanders joined Conyers on a visit to the H.O.P.E. Project in southeast Washington. The presidential candidate toured a small but busy office, located above a strip mall, that had successfully trained 375 people in the IT field, and seen 315 of those people get jobs that paid an average of $42,000—far above the median income locally. Ninety-three percent of graduates were African-American, and when Sanders entered a computer room—pausing to greet every student—the only white faces belonged to journalists and staffers. The room was crowded with TV cameras and iPhones, some pointed at four words on the wall: "HARVARD OF THE HOOD."

"In America now we spend nearly $200 billion on public safety, including $70 billion on correctional facilities each and every year," said Sanders from the front of the room. "So, let me be very clear: in my view it makes a lot more sense to invest in jobs, in job training, and in education than spending incredible amounts of money on jails and law enforcement."

Sanders got darker, decrying the size of America's prison population, imagining a world in which people got jobs instead of jail sentences." According to the NAACP, from 1980 to 2008, the number of people incarcerated in America quadrupled from roughly 500,000 to 2.3 million people," he said. "If current trends continue, one in three black males born today can expect to spend time in prison during his lifetime. This is an unspeakable tragedy."

Bernie Sanders: Let's Spend $5.5 Billion to Employ 1 Million Young People - Bloomberg Politics

In an interview on “The Rachel Maddow Show,” Senator Bernie Sanders, Democratic presidential candidate, declared that he wanted to debate the Republican presidential candidates right now so he can expose their “reactionary agenda.” Sanders believes that debating these candidates on the presidential issues instead of allowing the media to focus on polling and fundraising will expose their policies that favor the wealthy.

Traditionally, the presidential primary candidates only face each other. Republican presidential candidates debate among themselves as do Democratic presidential candidates. But never before in modern years have the individual presidential candidates within each party debated across party lines. Before candidates Stephen Douglas and Abraham Lincoln, presidential debates weren’t even an aspect of the elections. That only happened because Lincoln kept following Douglas on his campaign trail, goading him into arguments. So is that same pattern of events going to be set in stone by Sanders?

Bernie Sanders' Call for an Early Debate: Could it Work? - Law Street (TM)

"Sanders is the rival-in-chief to Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton. He has seen his support triple with Iowa likely caucusgoers in the last four months, according to the new Des Moines Register/Bloomberg Politics poll. But he's the first choice of only 16 percent of Democratic likely caucusgoers, 41 points down from Clinton, who is currently the first choice for 57 percent.

During his speeches in Iowa, Sanders calls for guaranteed sick leave and vacation for workers, more cushion from Social Security for retirees, a reduction in unemployment, a minimum wage increase, free public college, free preschool to help reduce the need for expensive child care, government-run health care that covers the entire population, and other changes.

Weaver, Sanders' campaign manager, is in Iowa this week to sign a lease for a Des Moines campaign office and bring on more staff to help Sanders' Iowa director, Pete D'Alessandro, who has been almost single-handedly dealing with swarms of Iowans who want to connect with the campaign.

This is the first early state where Sanders has opened a headquarters; New Hampshire is next, Weaver told the Register.

"Iowa's a very important state to us. We're going to be competing here very aggressively. We won't have what she has," Weaver said, referring to the big staff and nine offices Clinton already has in Iowa, "but we'll be competing very aggressively."

On the same day Sanders drew 700 in Davenport, Ron Paul's son Rand Paul, who is running for president in the 2016 race, drew about 100 in Davenport. Politics watchers on Twitter argued that Sanders was offering "free money" while Paul was promoting hard work."

Bernie Sanders scrambles to build Iowa team to meet popular demand
 
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