Best Examples of Near-Death Experiences?

[Magic Man]

I've had a few discussions on the topic of near-death experiences in recent months. I've seen some examples that are supposed to serve as evidence that NDEs are experiences of consciousness leaving the body (and along with that experiences of the afterlife). I've also heard that there are examples whose only possible explanation is consciousness leaving the body - usually, these are veridical experiences.

So, in this thread I'd like to ask for people's best examples, examples that they think don't have any reasonable explanation other than an experience of the afterlife and/or consciousness leaving the body. It would be nearly impossible for me to review all NDEs, so I'd like to at least review some of the best examples out there to inform my views on the subject.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It appears you're still waiting.

 

[YmirGF]

My first experience was when I was in a room with a group of other people. There was something peculiar in the water that night and we were all in good spirits... as it were. Internally I saw myself as an orb of light, like a small sun, while externally I was the same as normal. Then something peculiar happened. There was a psychological explosion, if you will and everyone in the room was startled, having sensed this odd phenomena. I heard a sound like that of a plastic wrap being peeled off a package of cigarettes and then I literally was standing looking down at myself. I remember sitting there, looking up at myself. It is a weird feeling to be aware of being in two places at the same time. It only took a nanosecond for me to realize this second me was invisible to the others in the room, but they certainly seemed to sense it. One of my first thoughts, out of the blue, to this second self was "This is what it must be like when you are dead." Then, in a Monty Pythonesque sense I was aware of my physical self thinking, "But I'm not dead yet."

It was a tremendously enjoyable experience and one that smashed my fear of death to smithereens. Now, I appreciate that, if indeed, it was merely an illusion, it remains a startling, thrilling and wonderful illusion. And to this day, have never looked at death the same way I did prior to the experience.

 

[Magic Man]

It appears you're still waiting.

It appears so. Too bad. I guess I'll have to keep waiting to be shown these wonderfully compelling and accurately verified accounts.

 

[Windwalker]

It appears so. Too bad. I guess I'll have to keep waiting to be shown these wonderfully compelling and accurately verified accounts.

Go have one yourself, and then come back with a different set of questions.

 

[DallasApple]

The only 'near death" experience I have had was when I nearly died. As in if someone hadn't saved me. I "would have" drowned" had I not been saved out of a rip tide.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It appears so. Too bad. I guess I'll have to keep waiting to be shown these wonderfully compelling and accurately verified accounts.

I hear they say that patience is a virtue. Perhaps this is an opportunity to gain ample virtue.

 

[YmirGF]

It appears so. Too bad. I guess I'll have to keep waiting to be shown these wonderfully compelling and accurately verified accounts.

There's the rub though, Not-so Magic Man. It's not like this kind of experience lends itself to verification. Would it make much difference if each of the people present at my own awakening wrote to you and said they may have felt something but couldn't say what that something was? And, of course, that they were quite unaware of the second me? Yeah. That would be compelling, LOL.

 

[Magic Man]

There's the rub though, Not-so Magic Man. It's not like this kind of experience lends itself to verification. Would it make much difference if each of the people present at my own awakening wrote to you and said they may have felt something but couldn't say what that something was? And, of course, that they were quite unaware of the second me? Yeah. That would be compelling, LOL.

My response wasn't directed at you, actually. It's directed at those who claim they believe NDEs are examples of something beyond this world (like an afterlife or consciousness separate from physical bodies) because of an objective review of all the evidence.

 

[YmirGF]

My response wasn't directed at you, actually. It's directed at those who claim they believe NDEs are examples of something beyond this world (like an afterlife or consciousness separate from physical bodies) because of an objective review of all the evidence.

Ah, OK. Sorry to jump on you. My delusional ranting is tempered by two things, considerable experience in the area of discussion and having many years to digest this odd facet of some human animal's reality. I am completely open to the idea that it is a delusional episode, however fascinating and intriguing. For me, at least, it was a real learning experience in how the mind works. I am almost always skeptical when I read the comments of others about these kind of experiences and due to my own extensive experience can spot what seem to me to be projections or distortions created by their foundation class beliefs about reality. The point is that I do not see any ways that these types of experiences could be validated.

 

[Windwalker]

My response wasn't directed at you, actually. It's directed at those who claim they believe NDEs are examples of something beyond this world (like an afterlife or consciousness separate from physical bodies) because of an objective review of all the evidence.

Are you talking about people who have no experience with an NDE, merely reading about other's experiences with them and coming to a logical assumption there must be something more than meets the eye? Or are you talking about those who have first-hand direct experiences who tell you there is something more than meets the eye? There is a difference in the types of responses you will get depending on the person you are asking; those with experiences, versus those with no experience.

 

[Magic Man]

Ah, OK. Sorry to jump on you.

No problem. I realize how my second post could have come off as an indirect response to you.

My delusional ranting is tempered by two things, considerable experience in the area of discussion and having many years to digest this odd facet of some human animal's reality. I am completely open to the idea that it is a delusional episode, however fascinating and intriguing. For me, at least, it was a real learning experience in how the mind works. I am almost always skeptical when I read the comments of others about these kind of experiences and due to my own extensive experience can spot what seem to me to be projections or distortions created by their foundation class beliefs about reality. The point is that I do not see any ways that these types of experiences could be validated.

I'm with you, and I don't blame people for believing in this kind of stuff, especially when they've had such an experience. I just find the idea of believing in the phenomenon because of a supposed objective review of the evidence.

As for validation, generally the evidence used is details the person couldn't possibly know from during their NDE, like what a doctor says or the weird tool he uses. The idea being, the only way they could know the details is by having an experience where their consciousness leaves their body and observes things while they're pretty much "dead". So far, I haven't found any episodes that hold up to questioning, though.

 

[Magic Man]

Are you talking about people who have no experience with an NDE, merely reading about other's experiences with them and coming to a logical assumption there must be something more than meets the eye? Or are you talking about those who have first-hand direct experiences who tell you there is something more than meets the eye? There is a difference in the types of responses you will get depending on the person you are asking; those with experiences, versus those with no experience.

I'm talking about both. I have no problem with people who have had such an experience and relate to others' experiences.

 

[George-ananda]

I've had a few discussions on the topic of near-death experiences in recent months. I've seen some examples that are supposed to serve as evidence that NDEs are experiences of consciousness leaving the body (and along with that experiences of the afterlife). I've also heard that there are examples whose only possible explanation is consciousness leaving the body - usually, these are veridical experiences.

So, in this thread I'd like to ask for people's best examples, examples that they think don't have any reasonable explanation other than an experience of the afterlife and/or consciousness leaving the body. It would be nearly impossible for me to review all NDEs, so I'd like to at least review some of the best examples out there to inform my views on the subject.

It sounds like the only type of evidence you’re concerned with is ‘veridical’ evidence. Often we find experiencers are much more interested in talking about their grand subjective experience. So the experiencers interests in this subject are often different from yours.


That being said, all you can expect to receive on this thread are synopses of veridical stories people experienced themselves and heard/read from others where veridical details were later verified. This would not be satisfactory to you as we know by now. If you want to go deeper than synopses you are just going to have to take on a self-research project. And seriously you should, as this issue seems to interest you greatly.

I’ve seen books over the years and do place some confidence in the professionalism of researchers in this field. My confidence in the overall professionalism of the many researchers in this field (along with the quantity and quality of the evidence) is such that I am not motivated at this time to take on a self-research project to find things like who interviewed who and when on individual cases.



Edit: I forgot your issue with reliability of memory. You may be asking for the impossible.

 

[Windwalker]

I want to cut through some things here. Why is it you are looking for concrete evidence of something like the afterlife, or mind beyond matter? Is this something you are trying to prove to yourself, or to disprove to others who feel there are reasons to embrace this?

I think that whether there is or is not an afterlife is completely besides the point. What is the point is that what it opens up in people is overwhelming positive. It changes them for the better. Is that something you need empirical evidence for in order to step through that door? You think the mind of reason will deliver it for you?

If you want solid research into the brain and mystical experience, watch this video by this neuroscientist. It's rather long, but well worth you looking into. His point in this, as he says at the outset is not to prove or disprove God, but to look at the commonality of these experiences, and what goes on in the brain. It matters not one tick that this happens in the brain. What matters, is what happens. And he himself says at one point, whether it proves an afterlife or a God is not as important as what happens to them. He then says, he wish it would happen to all of us, because it has such powerful, life-changing effects. Why you need this to be "true" in your terms, to me seems a curious request. So let's get to the real point here and talk about why.

[youtube]Eid6fiAj8WY[/youtube]
1 God and the Brain - The Persinger 'God Helmet', The Brain, and visions of God. - YouTube

 

[George-ananda]

I think that whether there is or is not an afterlife is completely besides the point. What is the point is that what it opens up in people is overwhelming positive.

The positive experience is the important point to you. Whether or not it is evidence of consciousness existing beyond the brain is the important point to Magic Man and me.

We're all interested for different reasons.

 

[Windwalker]

The positive experience is the important point to you. Whether or not it is evidence of consciousness existing beyond the brain is the important point to Magic Man and me.

We're all interested for different reasons.

Why? I believe that is my point. What are you looking for?

 

[George-ananda]

Why? I believe that is my point. What are you looking for?

I thought I made that clear when I said "Whether or not it is evidence of consciousness existing beyond the brain is the important point to Magic Man and me."

I certainly don't see that point to be of trivial importance in my understanding of this universe.

 

[Windwalker]

I thought I made that clear when I said "Whether or not it is evidence of consciousness existing beyond the brain is the important point to Magic Man and me."

I certainly don't see that point to be of trivial importance in my understanding of this universe.

I'm sure it's not trivial. But my question is not answered in restating yours, or his. Exactly what importance is it? Why does citing evidence to prove some afterlife matter, and in what ways? If this evidence exists, exactly in what ways does this affect someone? What is being sought after in this question, that you have said and he has shown is not trivial?

I'm trying to lead the thinking to a greater point in getting you and him to look at the question itself.

 

[Magic Man]

I'm sure it's not trivial. But my question is not answered in restating yours, or his. Exactly what importance is it? Why does citing evidence to prove some afterlife matter, and in what ways? If this evidence exists, exactly in what ways does this affect someone? What is being sought after in this question, that you have said and he has shown is not trivial?

I'm trying to lead the thinking to a greater point in getting you and him to look at the question itself.

I don't understand the questions. What do you mean what importance is the question of whether consciousness is separate from the body or there's an afterlife? It seems pretty obviously important to me. Does answering that question not seem important to you?