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Best Myth Books?

Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
Which are the best researched books of Celtic Myths (and possibly Anglo-Saxon/Norse/Germanic)? I've noticed there seems to be a lot of misinformation in Celtic tarot decks etc. which people complain about in reviews of products, so which is the best source for accurate information? Has to be available in the UK.

Thanks.

@The Hammer @Quintessence
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
As I've dug into this more, there are a couple challenges to keep in mind when looking for anything under the Celtic moniker:
  • What is Celtic, exactly? This is a surprisingly difficult question to answer. The term has been used in many different ways by both scholars and laypersons alike. Do we define it based on a language group? A geographic area? Common elements of an art style? Not even scholars who study the field agree on precisely what it means, but what we do know is that "the Celts" as some sort of common, unified people wasn't really a thing historically - they were distinct groups and tribes that had their own unique traditions.
    • This is important to remember when researching "Celtic myths" because you will often have better luck looking for stories within specific traditions, such as Welsh lore or Irish lore.
  • Weren't Celtic peoples pre-literate? Yes. Yes they were; indigenous Paganisms of Europe were all oral cultures. The implications this has are numerous, but most relevant here is to raise the question - how is it that we have any of these ancient tales today anyway? Who was it wrote them down (because it wasn't the people who told the stories)? Learning about the context through which these stories were passed down to us is important to understanding their context.
    • Celtic lore in particular was subjected to some whimsical and creative scholarship in the early days of anthropology. That's a polite way of saying that scholars basically made stuff up. Modern Druidry itself draws inspiration from the spurious scholarship of Edward Williams (better known as Iolo Morganwg). Even today it can be difficult to parse what was fabricated from what was genuine.
  • Is this Celtic stuff a fad? As if these two issues didn't complicate things enough, all things Celtic has enjoyed popularity today and modern people enjoy creative license with what material is available. Is this a bad thing? A good thing? It depends on your point of view and what you are looking for. The perspective of the Druid order I belong to tends to respect the flow of creative inspiration while also keeping us mindful of sourcing.
    • What this means is that the question of whether or not something is "authentic" to some constructed standard is less relevant than if it authentically inspires joy and happiness in your life. Most of us aren't scholars - we don't need to be concerned with pedantry and living religion evolves and changes over time.
The long and the short of it, because the original tellers of these tales weren't the ones who wrote them down, and the diversity of Celtic groups, it's difficult if not impossible to know anything for sure (at least in an academic sense) about these tales and cultures. But we can take what we do have and just let it inspire us as it wills. A lot of the old tales can be challenging to parse if not told by a modern bard. I've read through the Mabinogion for example, but it sucks compared to having a bard tell or sing it. There's reams of medieval manuscripts from Ireland and Wales in particular that, while heavily Christianized, provide glimpses into indigenous Pagan traditions in those areas. I haven't gotten as deep into it as some do, but I enjoy the OBOD podcasts and Mt. Haemus lectures that cover the subject.
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
Quintessence said:
What is Celtic, exactly? This is a surprisingly difficult question to answer. The term has been used in many different ways by both scholars and laypersons alike. Do we define it based on a language group? A geographic area? Common elements of an art style? Not even scholars who study the field agree on precisely what it means, but what we do know is that "the Celts" as some sort of common, unified people wasn't really a thing historically - they were distinct groups and tribes that had their own unique traditions.
  • This is important to remember when researching "Celtic myths" because you will often have better luck looking for stories within specific traditions, such as Welsh lore or Irish lore.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is very true. I'd be interested in both Irish and Welsh. As someone who is linguistically inclined, I divide by language group; so, as Irish comes from Goidelic and Welsh comes from Common Brittonic that would be a starting point for me to distinguish them. We also know that many of the so-called Celtic worship sites in the British Isles were created by pre-Celtic peoples and thus repurposed - looking for any original meaning in these structures thus seems pointless.

Quintessence said:
Weren't Celtic peoples pre-literate? Yes. Yes they were; indigenous Paganisms of Europe were all oral cultures. The implications this has are numerous, but most relevant here is to raise the question - how is it that we have any of these ancient tales today anyway? Who was it wrote them down (because it wasn't the people who told the stories)? Learning about the context through which these stories were passed down to us is important to understanding their context.
  • Celtic lore in particular was subjected to some whimsical and creative scholarship in the early days of anthropology. That's a polite way of saying that scholars basically made stuff up. Modern Druidry itself draws inspiration from the spurious scholarship of Edward Williams (better known as Iolo Morganwg). Even today it can be difficult to parse what was fabricated from what was genuine.
Click to expand...
Indeed, one of the differentiating factors between North-Central European and Mediterranean religious cultures is that the latter favoured more writing, so we can 'reconstruct' Classical Mediterranean beliefs/practices better than North-Central European ones. This has led to a lot of mythmaking, especially by Early Modern and Victorian romanticists. The idea of 'fairies' is a god example of this, I think. It also goes with the Noble Savage idea. I don't see this as being as much of a problem as it may otherwise be though, as 'Paganism' (however ill-defined) is not book-led and can thus change much easier according to time and place. I see no issue with such change.

Quintessence said:
Is this Celtic stuff a fad? As if these two issues didn't complicate things enough, all things Celtic has enjoyed popularity today and modern people enjoy creative license with what material is available. Is this a bad thing? A good thing? It depends on your point of view and what you are looking for. The perspective of the Druid order I belong to tends to respect the flow of creative inspiration while also keeping us mindful of sourcing.
  • What this means is that the question of whether or not something is "authentic" to some constructed standard is less relevant than if it authentically inspires joy and happiness in your life. Most of us aren't scholars - we don't need to be concerned with pedantry and living religion evolves and changes over time.
Click to expand...
As a Brit, I do dislike it when our culture is appropriated by people who don't really know what they're doing with it and start talking nonsense history. I must admit that is annoying. If they want to be Celtic Pagans, go ahead, power to you, but please don't pretend you have historical accuracy when you don't. Same goes for the Bretons, I imagine. I accept intuition, innovation etc., but history=/= religion.
 
The Hammer

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Rival said:
Which are the best researched books of Celtic Myths (and possibly Anglo-Saxon/Norse/Germanic)? I've noticed there seems to be a lot of misinformation in Celtic tarot decks etc. which people complain about in reviews of products, so which is the best source for accurate information? Has to be available in the UK.

Thanks.

@The Hammer @Quintessence
Click to expand...

So @Quintessence handled the nuance of the subject around identifying language and culture families. With that, I've found a good cross myth comparison is a great foundation. I read a text called "Comparative Mythology" by Jaan Puhvel. It's a little older but it is a great discussion on the myths, their characters and how things have shifted over time.



For Norse myths Jackson Crawford has good translations of those Myths and Sagas including a take on Snorri's prose edda. Celtic is less in my wheelhouse at the moment, but will get there.
 
Hildeburh

Hildeburh

Active Member
Rival said:
Which are the best researched books of Celtic Myths (and possibly Anglo-Saxon/Norse/Germanic)? I've noticed there seems to be a lot of misinformation in Celtic tarot decks etc. which people complain about in reviews of products, so which is the best source for accurate information? Has to be available in the UK.

Thanks.

@The Hammer @Quintessence
Click to expand...
Go to the sources:

Norse
Prose Edda
Poetic Edda
The Sagas
Gesta Danorum
Íslendingabók
Heimskringla
Adam of Breman
Ibn Fablan
Place-names
Archeology

Anglo-Saxon
all resources for AS mythology and history:


Also place-name evidence and archeology

Celtic
Lebor na hUidre
Book of Leinster
Yellow Book of Lecan
The Book of Ballymote
The Cycles
Commentarii de bello gallico

Welsh mythology
religion.fandom.com

Welsh mythology

Welsh mythology, the remnants of the mythology of the pre-Christian Britons, has come down to us in much altered form in medieval Welsh manuscripts such as the Red Book of Hergest, the White Book of Rhydderch, the Book of Aneirin and the Book of Taliesin. The prose stories from the White and Red...
religion.fandom.com religion.fandom.com

No such thing a Celtic Tarot.
 
rocala

rocala

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
It's a modern take on an ancient belief system. I think it's fine.
Click to expand...
I have known a few knowledgeable people who were seriously into their cards. My impression is that for many, the underlying principles of the Tarot are not inflexible or written in stone. Variations on the theme are possible and accepted by some practitioners.
 
rocala

rocala

Well-Known Member
I forgot to mention that one book recommended to me a while back was 'The Celtic Myths: A Guide to the Ancient Gods and Legends" by Miranda Aldhouse-Green. I have not yet read it myself.
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
Bought this,

1693750884340.png
 
lewisnotmiller

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Rival said:
As a Brit, I do dislike it when our culture is appropriated by people who don't really know what they're doing with it and start talking nonsense history. I must admit that is annoying.
Click to expand...
I don't mean this to sound trite, but that would include the vast majority of Brits, wouldn't it?
Even drawing a line from ancient cultures through to modern is...well...fraught at best.

I personally find the confusion and lack of firm knowledge interesting, but I think there's a loooooong history of cultural appropriation of 'Celt' culture by various 'English' kingdoms.

Full disclosure, the majority of my study and interest has been historical rather than religious tradition, but trying to pick those apart is pretty much an exercise in futility if you go back far enough.
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
lewisnotmiller said:
I don't mean this to sound trite, but that would include the vast majority of Brits, wouldn't it?
Even drawing a line from ancient cultures through to modern is...well...fraught at best.

I personally find the confusion and lack of firm knowledge interesting, but I think there's a loooooong history of cultural appropriation of 'Celt' culture by various 'English' kingdoms.

Full disclosure, the majority of my study and interest has been historical rather than religious tradition, but trying to pick those apart is pretty much an exercise in futility if you go back far enough.
Click to expand...
I mean more in the 'I'm a two spirit!' kind of way a lot of young people treat Native American religion. They adopt it more as a badge than an actual meaningful lifestyle or spirituality. With Celtic it might be taking on romanticised ideas about what the Celts were and being less than honest about things like human sacrifice and war.

The English and Celts are so intermixed and always were that there is no meaningful difference. Genetically all so-called English women are Celt.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
The Hammer said:
For Norse myths Jackson Crawford has good translations of those Myths and Sagas including a take on Snorri's prose edda. Celtic is less in my wheelhouse at the moment, but will get there.
Click to expand...
Beat me to it. I've had these two on my bookshelf for decades.

The Prose Edda: Sturluson, Snorri: 9781781395172: Books - Amazon.ca

The Prose Edda: Sturluson, Snorri: 9781781395172: Books - Amazon.ca
www.amazon.ca

and

The Poetic Edda by Lee Hollander (my copy is from 1973)

Found a third volume,

The Elder Edda: A selection by Paul Taylor & W.H. Auden (my copy is from 1969) :)
 
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