nameless
The Creator
'Bhagvad Gita' faces 'extremist' branding, legal ban in Russia - Indiatimes.com
way to go. Russia ...
way to go. Russia ...
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Bhagvad Gita faces legal ban in Russia
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Gaura Priya
IRL
This is not merely the Bhagavad Gita, but rather the 'Bhagavad-Gita As It Is' by Srila Prabhupada - the Russian translation with Srila Prabhupada's Gaudiya Vaishnava commentaries.
Which is silly, because the Russian government allows the Bible and the Qur'an to exist in that country, and are way more violent, bloodthirsty, etc. than Srila Prabhupada's commentary. Really, the most discriminatory thing in there is how he hates atheism, and that is pretty much it.
The silliest thing I've read in that article is that ISKCON preaches hatred of other religious groups, and I know as a person who is outside of ISKCON yet participates in the temple activities, dated an ISKCON member, and had good and bad experiences with the organisation in my locality, and read most of Srila Prabhupada's books, have yet to encounter religious discrimination.
The only thing that ISKCON as a Western Gaudiya Vaishnava organisation, is its unanimous stance towards atheism as a negative parasitical belief system and 'demoniac' mentality.
I just think this whole thing is rather silly, but it would be sad if the Russians did this. Gaudiya Vaishnava groups in Russia and the rest of Eastern Europe is flourishing quite steadily and are rapidly growing in numbers, just like in many countries in the Southern and Central Americas.
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Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Gaura Priya
IRL
>__> May as very well be. Many speculate that the Orthodox Church is behind this whole thing.
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
It saddens me to say this, but I wouldn't doubt it. This is just terrible. I really can't believe, or rather, don't want to believe, that Russia would ban the Bhagavad Gita As-It-Is. Russia allows so many other religions, that it boggles the mind to try and figure out why they would do this. What's weird about the possibility of the Orthodox church having something to do with this is, is that every single Russian Orthodox Christian I have ever know, has always had a much bigger problem with other Orthodox Christians (Greek, Antiochian, OCA, Eastern European churches) than Christians of other denominations and other religions.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
I'd hate to think this is the case. Hopefully it's not.
Andal
resident hypnotist
I read a really great write up about this over the summer (can't remember now) From everything I've heard, the Orthodox church is indeed behind it. The allegations that it was extremist were first made by an Orthodox priest and university professor. The Gita then was examined by "scholars" aka Orthodox theologians to determine if it preached an extremist theology to which they said it did. I think it was a panel of three "scholars" or something. I can't remember all of the details.
It will be a huge step backwards for Russia if they go through with this.
Aum Hari Aum!
It will be a huge step backwards for Russia if they go through with this.
Aum Hari Aum!
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
Well, I can say this, when it comes to Christian fundamentalism, the Russian Orthodox church takes the cake. Leave it to them to come up with something this outlandish and ignorant.
The Russian Orthodox Church is behind everything evil. Evidently the late-not-so-great Patriarch Alexy's legacy and spirit lives on... like Sauron in the Third Age. Patriarch Alexy was one of the most narrow-minded, hateful clerics ever to oversee any national church or diocese. The late-not-so-great Archbishop Christodoulos of Greece was another hate-monger. The scandals that rocked both of their careers would make your hair curl.
The Russian Orthodox Church refuses to have dialogue with the Roman Catholic Church, though the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartolomeos has con-celebrated prayer services with Pope Benedict XVI. Now, Bartolomeos seems like a stand-up Joe. Every Ecumenical Patriarch from the time of Pope Paul VI has had dialogue. But the Ecumenical Patriarch is primus inter pares... first among equals and has no jurisdiction over any other bishop, archbishop or patriarch's rule. He can only spiritually guide.
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
The Russian Orthodox church won't even have cordial relations with the greater Orthodox world. Most believe the Greeks caved in to Roman practices in the 17th century, and when the Russian Patriarch tried to conform to the Greek ways, the Russian church split, causing the formation of the Old Believers, the most absolute fundamentalist Christian church on the planet. Even in organizations that the greater Orthodox world takes part in, or at least acts in an observer status, the Russians refuse to take part. The Russian Orthodox churches is one of those "true believer" churches, even at the expense of the rest of the Orthodox world.
Are they banning the Gita, or just one translated version of it? (I guess I need to do some research.)
In India, in some states the distribution of religious literature (mainly the Christian Bible) is banned under anti-proseltysing laws. But existing ones I'm sure are allowed to be kept.
I find the whole area to be vague. Maybe its more a reaction to evangelical efforts by our ISKCON friends, than a banning of the Gita per se.
In India, in some states the distribution of religious literature (mainly the Christian Bible) is banned under anti-proseltysing laws. But existing ones I'm sure are allowed to be kept.
I find the whole area to be vague. Maybe its more a reaction to evangelical efforts by our ISKCON friends, than a banning of the Gita per se.
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Andal
resident hypnotist
It's quite sad. I always thought Orthodox Christianity had a lot of beauty to it but then when I hear about the ecumenical nightmares that have come out of there, it definitely loses its luster. Orthodoxy in Russia specifically has taken on a very hardlined stance on most things. I can understand some of it as a knee jerk reaction to the years of tyranny under the Communist regime. The thing is though, Russia is so incredibly diverse religiously and this feels like the Church couldn't go after the Catholics b/c they share the same book. They couldn't go after the Muslims because they are a big the politics surrounding it would have hellish ramifications. The Buddhists are pretty safe since Russia has a centuries of Buddhist history and culture. So the O.C. went after what could be seen as the weakest religion. ISKCON is young so there are still a large number of converts compared to members by birth. They are also politically safe to go after. This is religious imperialism and jealousy.
Ok my rant's over...
Man, have you nailed it! The only other church the ROC will have relations with is the OCA, Orthodox Church in America. The OCA, until 1970-72, was under the Moscow Patriarchate, which granted autocephaly to the OCA. Ironically the Ecumenical Patriarchate sees the OCA as autonomous of the ROC but not as an autocephalous church. Even amongst themselves they bicker.
The EOC is no different than any other Christian church. I thought I found a home there when I left the RCC, but I was wrong. The EOC is just as stuck in the Middle Ages as the RCC and Arab world are. Enormous strides were made by all three up until that time, but then it all went out with a whimper.
The Moscow Patriarchate is particularly "perturbed" (the other "p" word gets censored
) by the RCC establishing dioceses in Russia. Paranoia runs rampant in the ROC, methinks. Maybe not unjustified, because many older clerics lived through the Soviet era. The religious intolerance shown by the ROC is truly sad.
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
Man, have you nailed it! The only other church the ROC will have relations with is the OCA, Orthodox Church in America. The OCA, until 1970-72, was under the Moscow Patriarchate, which granted autocephaly to the OCA. Ironically the Ecumenical Patriarchate sees the OCA as autonomous of the ROC but not as an autocephalous church. Even amongst themselves they bicker.
None of the other Orthodox patriarchs recognize the OCA as autocehpalous, just Moscow.
When I was Orthodox, I started in the Greek church, and that was a horrible experience. I've never had anything but trouble with the Greeks. So I switched to the Antiochian, which was a whole different world. And I wondered how two different churches, who were supposed to be part of the same communion, could act so differently to converts. I never tried the Russian or OCA, but, I had two friends who were Russian, one an Old Believer, and one ROCA (if you know about the dozen splinter groups of the Russian church).
Which is completely different in Egypt. The Catholic Copts and the Orthodox Copts get along just fine. Same in Antioch. Every place that has historically been Orthodox, where the Catholic church began establishing churches back in the 1800's, has gotten along fine, EXCEPT Russia.The Moscow Patriarchate is particularly "perturbed" (the other "p" word gets censored
Edit: Scratch that, I forgot about another Russian friend, who was ROCIE.
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You'r right, come to think of it.
Greeks are strange, in my experience. No offense to any Greeks here. Strange in that they either love you or are condescending. The Greeks I know from the restaurant are extremely affectionate. I can't go in there without being grabbed and hugged by any of them. Then there were the Greeks at the churches who barely looked at you knowing you weren't Greek. How could you be Orthodox if you weren't Greek!?
OCA is primarily converts, American born, and "refugees" from other Orthodox churches. It's not really bad, but 40 years later it's still going through growing pains and has its share of scandals. Several archbishops and two metropolitans have been on the verge of de-frocking and forced into retirement.
Egyptians just plain love everyone. I never met an Egyptian that wasn't friendly and affectionate. The irony of Russia is that all the Russians I've ever known are cheek-pinchers and huggers too. The people are great... it's their government and church that sucks.
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
Greeks are strange, in my experience. No offense to any Greeks here. Strange in that they either love you or are condescending. The Greeks I know from the restaurant are extremely affectionate. I can't go in there without being grabbed and hugged by any of them. Then there were the Greeks at the churches who barely looked at you knowing you weren't Greek. How could you be Orthodox if you weren't Greek!?
I attended two different Greek churches, and had pretty much the same experience. If you weren't Greek, or married into Greek, then you couldn't fit in at a Greek Orthodox church. However, at the first Greek church I attended, the priest and his son were great. Everyone else, though, I can't say the same for.
I never attended an OCA church. After my wife's and my experience at the second Greek church, we found an Antiochian church that we loved. The Antiochian church is made up of quite a bit of converts as well. Probably because all the other ethnic Orthodox churches tend to shun 'outsiders'.
I found the answer to my own question.
But a spokesman for the Tomsk diocese, who only identified himself as Father Viktor, said church officials had nothing to do with the legal efforts.
He was also quick to point out that the case involved the newer Bhagavad Gita as It Is, and not the ancient Bhagavad Gita, but did not comment on the prosecution citing the original Hindu text, and not the 20th-century commentary, in their complaint.
Read more: Krishna Holy Book Faces Ban in Tomsk | News | The Moscow Times
The Moscow Times
True, as they say, you only get one chance to make a first impression. And many churches, regardless of denomination fail abyssmally. They can be nationalistic for the "old country", even in the US, and insular. The problem I see with any church that is liberal and welcoming, is that they are usually too small a group to be taken seriously, either in their respective communions, or outside by other churches on the whole.