Bible Alone.. For Catholic's

[Dogknox20]

The historic Jesus isn’t particularly in doubt. But the mythic Jesus has no real evidence to support his existence. If you have some, I’d love to see it.

How about the Many "Miracles" over the past 2000 years! Can't deny them because that is what the word means..

Dictionary dot com
Miracle
NOUN

1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.
   "the miracle of rising from the grave"
   synonyms:
   supernatural phenomenon · mystery · prodigy · sign
   • a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences.
     "it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"
   • an amazing product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something.
     "a machine which was a miracle of design" ·
     wonder · marvel · sensation · phenomenon · astonishing feat · amazing
   • ................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[sojourner]

How about the Many "Miracles" over the past 2000 years! Can't deny them because that is what the word means..

Dictionary dot com
Miracle
NOUN

1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.
   "the miracle of rising from the grave"
   synonyms:
   supernatural phenomenon · mystery · prodigy · sign
   • a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences.
     "it was a miracle that more people hadn't been killed or injured"
   • an amazing product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something.
     "a machine which was a miracle of design" ·
     wonder · marvel · sensation · phenomenon · astonishing feat · amazing
   • ................................................................................................................................................................................................

Show me hard and fast evidence for the miracles of Jesus.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You've got to be kidding!!! Here, maybe do some reading: What Does the Bible Say About Judgment Day? (openbible.info)

Here is just one sample: Matthew25[31-34] 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34Some people will be judged prior to judgement day, but the scriptures over and over again states that there will eventually be an overall judgement day for most others...

I never denied that there will be a final judgment.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Show me hard and fast evidence for the miracles of Jesus.

Where is your faith?

 

[metis]

I never denied that there will be a final judgment.

Oh really? Well let's look back at what you posted:

We go to heaven or hell when we die.

It's what scripture teaches. I gave you scripture showing that we go to heaven or hell immediately after death.

I'm done with your dishonesty as you can't even keep your lies straight.

 

[Dogknox20]

Show me hard and fast evidence for the miracles of Jesus.

You will have to "Google" to get the rest of the stories! I posted the first paragraph of each.. To help you find them!
7 Modern Miracles That Science Can't Explain
A "mysterious voice" led rescuers to find child who survived for 14 hours in submerged car.
In March 2015, Lynn Jennifer Groesbeck, 25, lost control of her car and landed in the icy Spanish Fork River in Utah.

A woman who came back to life after having no pulse for 45 minutes.
Ruby Graupera-Cassimiro, 40, fell unconscious from a rare amniotic fluid embolism during a cesarean section in September 2014 at the Boca Raton Regional Hospital in Florida.

A boy who fell into an icy stream was resuscitated after nearly two hours of CPR.
Gardell Martin, 22-months-old, was playing with his siblings outside his parents’ home in Mifflinburg, PN, in March 2015 when he fell into a gushing creek with 34-degree water.

The power of community prayer sparked a healing miracle that doctors can’t explain.
The end of Grayson Kirby seemed inevitable when he was thrown from a demolition derby car at the Mid-Atlantic Power Festival in Ruckersville, VA, in June 2014.

Vatican confirms Colorado boy was healed by nun from the beyond the grave.
The Roman Catholic Church has a rigid, formalized vetting process when evaluating miracles, which are defined as divine events that have no natural or scientific explanation. Investigating a single miracle could take years.


God shows man the power of marriage during life-threatening hold up.
We’ve all heard that married people live longer. But for one man, marriage literally saved his life.

Pope Francis performs a rare blood miracle.
Pope Francis is often called the pope of surprises. Could he also be the pope of miracles?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Oh really? Well let's look back at what you posted:





I'm done with your dishonesty as you can't even keep your lies straight.

I don't think you are paying attention. It's not either/ or, it's both. We go to heaven or hell and later there's a final judgment. Some conclude that the souls without Christ cease to exist after hades is thrown into the lake of fire.

This is basic Catholic doctrine BTW, except they propose a mythical place called purgatory for some souls:

"Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven—through a purification or immediately—or immediate and everlasting damnation."

"We must also acknowledge as Catholics that there will be what the Church refers to as the final judgment at the end of time, in which all will be judged corporately and publicly. According to Sacred Scripture this is clearly separate and distinct from the particular judgment, as CCC 1038 declares:

The resurrection of all the dead, “of both the just and the unjust” (Acts 24:15), will precede the Last Judgment. This will be “the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man’s] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment” (John 5:28-29). Then Christ will come “in his glory, and all the angels with him. . . . Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. . . . And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life” (Matt. 25:31, 32, 46) ."

So if you are Catholic you should already know there's two judgements.

 

[sojourner]

Where is your faith?

That’s what I’ve been pushing all along! Some here keep saying that God’s existence is a “fact.” Jesus’ divinity is a “fact.” Salvation is a “fact.” But none of this is fact — none of this is even about fact. It’s about belief. Belief in something doesn’t turn that something into fact just because one believes it.

I have faith in God’s existence. But I don’t have evidence as to God’s existence. Such evidence doesn’t exist.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That’s what I’ve been pushing all along! Some here keep saying that God’s existence is a “fact.” Jesus’ divinity is a “fact.” Salvation is a “fact.” But none of this is fact — none of this is even about fact. It’s about belief. Belief in something doesn’t turn that something into fact just because one believes it.

I have faith in God’s existence. But I don’t have evidence as to God’s existence. Such evidence doesn’t exist.

If you experience salvation, how can you say it's not a fact? It's either real or not. Faith is a requirement but the reality is a work of God. Anything can be doubted. I sometimes doubt I exist. That doesn't make it less of a fact.

 

[sojourner]

You will have to "Google" to get the rest of the stories! I posted the first paragraph of each.. To help you find them!
7 Modern Miracles That Science Can't Explain
A "mysterious voice" led rescuers to find child who survived for 14 hours in submerged car.
In March 2015, Lynn Jennifer Groesbeck, 25, lost control of her car and landed in the icy Spanish Fork River in Utah.

A woman who came back to life after having no pulse for 45 minutes.
Ruby Graupera-Cassimiro, 40, fell unconscious from a rare amniotic fluid embolism during a cesarean section in September 2014 at the Boca Raton Regional Hospital in Florida.

A boy who fell into an icy stream was resuscitated after nearly two hours of CPR.
Gardell Martin, 22-months-old, was playing with his siblings outside his parents’ home in Mifflinburg, PN, in March 2015 when he fell into a gushing creek with 34-degree water.

The power of community prayer sparked a healing miracle that doctors can’t explain.
The end of Grayson Kirby seemed inevitable when he was thrown from a demolition derby car at the Mid-Atlantic Power Festival in Ruckersville, VA, in June 2014.

Vatican confirms Colorado boy was healed by nun from the beyond the grave.
The Roman Catholic Church has a rigid, formalized vetting process when evaluating miracles, which are defined as divine events that have no natural or scientific explanation. Investigating a single miracle could take years.


God shows man the power of marriage during life-threatening hold up.
We’ve all heard that married people live longer. But for one man, marriage literally saved his life.

Pope Francis performs a rare blood miracle.
Pope Francis is often called the pope of surprises. Could he also be the pope of miracles?

This is all anecdotal. No specific correlation to divine origin, no hard evidence.

 

[sojourner]

If you experience salvation, how can you say it's not a fact? It's either real or not. Faith is a requirement but the reality is a work of God. Anything can be doubted. I sometimes doubt I exist. That doesn't make it less of a fact.

The fact that you exist is not because you think you do, but because you have measurable mass, you take up measurable space, your constituent parts can be quantified.
“Reality” and “fact” are two different things. I experience love, but that’s not a fact, because there’s no way to quantify it.

I didn’t say that God isn’t real. I said that God’s existence isn’t factual.

 

[metis]

This is basic Catholic doctrine BTW, except they propose a mythical place called purgatory for some souls:

And again, you are showing your ignorance on the subject since there's simply no way to disprove it, plus the issue of "sheol" at the least makes it logically possibly.

You state your belief as if it is fact, which is a theological no-no, whereas I've stated that I simply don't know if it exists or not, nor do I lose any sleep over not knowing.

So if you are Catholic you should already know there's two judgements.

That is not what you said as I clearly pointed out by quoting you in my last post, so you are again being all too disingenuous.

I'll be gone for the rest of the weekend, and when I get back maybe on Monday, I will not be resuming any discussion of this with you.

Vaya con Dios.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That is not what you said as I clearly pointed out by quoting you in my last post, so you are again being all too disingenuous.

It's exactly what I said. We go to heaven or hell after death and there's also a final judgment.

 

[Dogknox20]

What you say here is not accurate. The apostles used the Hebrew scriptures to convince Jews that Jesus was the Christ.

The Holy Spirit, which works in tandem with scripture, acts as a rain to water the word. Without the Holy Spirit the word is not brought to life, or even understood.

The NT scriptures became necessary when the eyewitnesses to Christ, the apostles, were no longer around to give testimony or leadership.

The written word reveals the living word, just as the living word reveals the written word.

.
Redemptionsong There was NO bible until the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church made it she put it together It is her book! There were many letters kicking around many were NOT inspired words of God.. It got to a point where no one knew what was real inspired word of God and what was not! The Catholic Church took on the job of deciding what was real inspired word of God and what was not!

The Holy Spirit helped her in the job DON'T.....

Redemptionsong don't you think the Holy Spirit would not also stick around and help her interpret the same scriptures!?
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

 

[Dogknox20]

Just so folks know, we can all access the Vatican website. It is extensive and certainly includes the teaching of the Church.

The monastic community has long recognized that the authority of man and the institution of the Church is not the same as the will of Jesus.

Both St. Francis of Assisi and St. John of the Cross, were, for a time, considered heretics.

Meaning, of course, that the existing authority of the day, judged them as the complete opposite of what they were.

Human beings run institutions. Human beings are flawed.

But, we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater. We take the general teaching and thrust of religious teaching and try to understand its intent and how it is meant for our lives. That is all we can do. Religion is a lot more than just following a bunch of rules laid down by authoritarian people. They are not the Church. Jesus is the Church. His love is the Church, His compassion is the Church.

JonSL I hope all is well...
What you say is just your Opinion!

FACT: Jesus established a CHURCH before he left us.. It has AUTHORITY to teach all nations! It has the Authority of God to immerse people into the Body of Jesus .. His One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church!
The Church Jesus established has a foundation of ROCK not of sand.. The ONLY Church Jesus established will not fall it cannot fail! To think otherwise is to think Jesus is a fool!

Matthew 7:25
The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”