Bible Alone.. For Catholic's

[Dogknox20]

A better translation:

In the beginning was the Word, the word was with his exalted ones, and the word was the exalted ones. It was with the exalted ones in the beginning. Through it all things were made, without it nothing was made that has been made. In it was life and that life was the light of all humanity.


This about the tree of life who were the tree of knowledge, the exalted ones Adam (a) wanted to be of. And God's Name/word was with them and they were God's Name from another sense.

And he created everything from this light, all beings are created from the light.

This is about Mohammad (s) and his family (a), and that reality of God's light was then vested in all his chosen ones, from Adam (a) to Jesus (a), they were entrusted with the word of God, the light of God in Mohammad (s) and his family (a).

Jesus (a) was instance of God's Name like Samuel (a), and hence the word of God brought to life in him, but he is not the only one.

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Link Right off... For 600 years Christians have believed and taught "Jesus is God"!
The scriptures were used to teach; Jesus is God!
For 600 years the scriptures said.. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
The scriptures said for 600 years... .. 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The scriptures said for six hundred years.. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

THEN after 600 years Mohammad comes along and tells you "NOPE The Christians have had it wrong for 600 years.. God is NOT merciful he is not LOVE!"
Mohammad teaches after 600 years of Christians teaching "Jesus is God and Jesus died and rose from the dead to save man" that Jesus did not rise from the dead!
Mohammad taught opposite to what Christians believe!

Mohammad taught "God is NOT merciful God wants; An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth!
Link Mohammad twisted the Christian scriptures to say what he wanted God to have said! Satan also rejects Jesus as God.. Satan also rejects Love and Mercy!
Satan and Mohammod are in the same camp! Satan is Anti-Christian and so was Mohammod!
Mohammod came long after Jesus and Christians! Mohammad rejected Christians just as the "Anti-Christ!"

 

[Dogknox20]

None of that's in scripture. Peter isn't that rock, his confession of faith is the rock and cornerstone.

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Wildswanderer I said .. "Jesus built his Church ON ROCK!" Jesus did not build on sand! Fools build on sand! To think the Church Jesus built on ROCK failed is to say "Jesus is a fool!"
Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

Wildswanderer Jesus DID NOT BUILD ON SAND!

Wildswanderer Is Jesus a fool? Did the Church Jesus built on ROCK fall?!
Did Jesus abandon his Christians followers and his One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church?
Matthew 28:20
and teach them to do everything I have told you. I will be with you always, even until the end of the world.

Wildswanderer Did Jesus lie? If Jesus is always with his One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church AND If the One Church Jesus established before he ascended into heaven cannot fail then why are you saying; God failed and why do you say that the Church did fall and why say that Jesus could NOT have remained to the end of the world with the Church he built on ROCK!

Jesus started with Christians called Apostles these Apostles appointed others as the need arose! Today they are called Bishops!
Acts 1:20
For it is written in the book of Psalms: ‘Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein’; and, ‘His bishopric let another take.’

You are forced to believe God failed and that he needed Man to come to his rescue and BUILD BACK the Church Jesus lost! AS IF...

Wildswanderer as if "Satan somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan TOOK the body of Jesus from Jesus!"! NOT logical and not scriptural but this is what the thousands of man made churches teach!

 

[Dogknox20]

Just what Jesus established is not at all clear. The success of the early Christian church is down to Paul in particular, but Paul (like the rest of the NT authors) never met an historical Jesus and states frankly in Galatians 1:11-12 that everything he tells you about Jesus comes out of his own head. In particular, he had very little interest in what the earthly Jesus did (given an historical Jesus at all), and accordingly you can fit his bio of Jesus into a couple of lines.
The original purported bio of Jesus is the one by Mark. The authors of Matthew and of Luke, and more remotely of John, use it as a template but alter, delete from or add to it as each thinks best suits the story.
I take it you say that having carefully studied the doctrines of each of them?

blü 2 you have opinions; The scriptures tell you "Jesus built his Church on ROCK not on sand"!
Scriptures also tell you "Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church until the end of time/world!" Always with means; Jesus is STILL with his Christians Followers to this very day! Not with Protestants because LOGIC ALONE SAYS: Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church that he built on ROCK not on sand!

Paul was also a Catholic does it matter if he met Jesus? NO! Paul was important in teaching the world the truth about Jesus!

 

[blü 2]

blü 2 you have opinions; The scriptures tell you "Jesus built his Church on ROCK not on sand"!

That's the pun on Peter / Kephas. On this question I'd rather look at the facts than the slogans.

Scriptures also tell you "Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church until the end of time/world!"

You mean Matthew 28:20? But Matthew is one of the three gospels in which Jesus promises that God's Kingdom will be established on earth within the lifetime of some of Jesus' audience (Mark 9:1, Mark 13:28, Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:32, Luke 9:27) and even with a margin of error of two thousand years or so, that didn't happen. So again I suggest we go with the facts in preference to the slogans.

Always with means; Jesus is STILL with his Christians Followers to this very day!

Only as an idea, like a statue of Zeus or a picture of a four-leaf clover. If it were otherwise, you could show me a recent photo.

Not with Protestants because LOGIC ALONE SAYS: Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church that he built on ROCK not on sand!

My understanding is that a Christian is anyone who accepts Jesus as her or his savior.

How do you define "Christian"?

Paul was also a Catholic does it matter if he met Jesus? NO! Paul was important in teaching the world the truth about Jesus!

Paul's bio of the earthly Jesus would fit into a couple of lines. The rest is simply what appealed to Paul, as he admits in that reference I gave you. Since so little of it is about reality, there isn't much that can be true or false ─ not that this rather obvious point seems to matter to people of faith, and if their faith helps to make them decent people, good luck to them!

 

[Dogknox20]

Ok, so, when I trust to the Bible, I do right thing and Bible is correct? Then there shouldn’t be any problem. But this leads to the question…
…why should it be interpreted? Is there any other reason that the reader doesn’t like the truthful message?

I think interpretations are the sand.

Only if “the church” is sent by God and speaks words of God. I think that is unfortunately not always true.

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1213 A very good question you asked... …why should it be interpreted? Is there any other reason that the reader doesn’t like the truthful message?
Look around your city I bet there are Protestant Churches on every block! All claiming to believe in "Scriptures Alone" but not even two of these thousands believe the same things!
Example..
Communion with God in the bread
Bread and Communion is only symbolic flesh

Church failed
Church built on Rock cannot fall

Church can teach
Only scriptures teach

Faith ALONE saves
Faith ALONE cannot save

Scriptures ALONE is found in the bible
Scriptures ALONE are NOT biblical

Church is invisible
Church is visible
Church is both

Peter was Chief Apostle
Peter was NOT chief Apostle

Early Church Fathers have no voice
Early Church Fathers teach with authority

No footnotes in the bible
Footnotes are useful in the bible

Woman are saved by childbirth!
Only faith saves!

Put on the whole armor of God
Can't put on the Armor with ONLY faith, the armor requires Love and Hope!

Baptize Infants
Don't baptize infants!

Baptism saves
Baptism is only symbolic

Wine
Grape Juice

Crackers
Bread
etc

1213 Man needs an AUTHORITY to teach! Think: You have a bible study with various people from different Protestant churches sitting around a table all will have there beliefs from the same bible, all will be quoting verses to back up their beliefs... ALL
1213 all from the same bible none of them can point at an authority to back up at best they point to their preacher BUT who is he just another man with his own beliefs!
Ignatius 107 A.D.
“It is essential to act in no way without the bishop,” Ignatius wrote to the Trallians. “Obey the bishop as if he were Jesus Christ” (2:2, 1). “Do nothing apart from the bishop,” he wrote to the Philadelphians (7:2). To the Smyrnaeans he gave the same advice: “You should all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ did the Father . . . Nobody must do anything that has to do with the Church without the bishop’s approval” (8:1).

Ignatius wrote: “When the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (8:2).

 

[Dogknox20]

No, 1st-century Christians did not teach Jesus is God. No triad god was taught by Christians.
Christians believed Psalms 90:2 that God had No beginning
Christians believed that pre-human Jesus was "IN" the beginning but Not ' before ' the beginning as his God was.
Dead Jesus did Not even resurrect himself but his God resurrected Jesus - Acts of the Apostles 3:15
Resurrected Jesus believed he had a God over him according to John 20:17
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still now thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12

Under the temporary Constitution of the Mosaic law it was an 'eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth'-Exodus 21:24-25
That stood for equal justice and Not a literal eye or tooth. Not revenge - Leviticus 19:18
Equal justice meaning punishment should Not go beyond/exceed what is sufficient ( correspond to the crime ).
Judges, Not individuals, were to weigh the circumstances - Deuteronomy 19:15-21

There is No capital letter "A" for anti-Christ.
Anyone who is against Christ is anti-Christ.
False clergy seat themselves in the 'temple' (Houses of worship) as if they are God when in reality they are anti-God.

Ignatius wrote: “When the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (8:2). 107 A.D.
URAVIP2ME Christians have always taught "Jesus is God"! Thomas is a Christian he was an Apostle! In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, “My Lord and my God!”

Ignatius of Antioch
“Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

 

[Dogknox20]

No, there is no one monolithic and over-arching entity called the Church. The Church is global and is invisible to man, for salvation is on a personal basis, not congregational nor denominational. We do not know who the true believers are, they come in all shapes and sizes and are not overtly recognized.

The holy catholic church is neither holy, nor Christian. The crimes and heresies that it has committed and endorsed throughout the centuries, incriminates it for perpetuity. If i appear to be rather outspoken or audacious in my comments, it is because the anti-christian dogmas of the catholic church should be apparent to all. Mary's perpetual virginity and immaculate conception, defies Biblical teaching. As does the intercession of the saints, and the infallibility and autocracy of the papacy, etc...

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DNB for you to believe what you do You are forced to reject the scriptures as LIES! Are you willing to reject the scriptures and condemn yourself!? I hope not!
John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

The words of Jesus.. "I will build my Church on ROCK.. the gate of hell will never prevail against it!"

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Luke 10:16
“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

DNB Did you read it? Reject the Church Jesus built on ROCK and you are then rejecting GOD!

The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is visible! She has Bishops and buildings over 2.2 billion Catholic are indeed visible! You city has the Mayor to speak for the city!
The School has the Dean to represent the school!
The Fire Department has the Fire Chief to speak for the department!
The Country as the President and Ambassadors to represent the Peoples, to speak for them!
The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is visible Jesus appointed Chief Shephard to represent her to speak for Jesus until he returns! YOUR....
DNB your church as the minister to speak for your church!

 

[Dogknox20]

That's the pun on Peter / Kephas. On this question I'd rather look at the facts than the slogans.
You mean Matthew 28:20? But Matthew is one of the three gospels in which Jesus promises that God's Kingdom will be established on earth within the lifetime of some of Jesus' audience (Mark 9:1, Mark 13:28, Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:32, Luke 9:27) and even with a margin of error of two thousand years or so, that didn't happen. So again I suggest we go with the facts in preference to the slogans.
Only as an idea, like a statue of Zeus or a picture of a four-leaf clover. If it were otherwise, you could show me a recent photo.
My understanding is that a Christian is anyone who accepts Jesus as her or his savior.

How do you define "Christian"?
Paul's bio of the earthly Jesus would fit into a couple of lines. The rest is simply what appealed to Paul, as he admits in that reference I gave you. Since so little of it is about reality, there isn't much that can be true or false ─ not that this rather obvious point seems to matter to people of faith, and if their faith helps to make them decent people, good luck to them!

You said... God's Kingdom will be established on earth within the lifetime of some of Jesus' audience

blü 2 The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is the Body of "The KING!" The Church is the Body of Jesus on earth! The Kingdom is indeed on earth! AND..


blü 2 and The Kingdome is being "Sanctified" after the earth, after death!
1 Corinthians 3:12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
And the Holy Body of Jesus is in heaven!

Jesus is God!
God is everywhere! Death was destroyed on the cross! Jesus restored Eternal life!

 

[DNB]

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DNB for you to believe what you do You are forced to reject the scriptures as LIES! Are you willing to reject the scriptures and condemn yourself!? I hope not!
John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

The words of Jesus.. "I will build my Church on ROCK.. the gate of hell will never prevail against it!"

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Luke 10:16
“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

DNB Did you read it? Reject the Church Jesus built on ROCK and you are then rejecting GOD!

The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is visible! She has Bishops and buildings over 2.2 billion Catholic are indeed visible! You city has the Mayor to speak for the city!
The School has the Dean to represent the school!
The Fire Department has the Fire Chief to speak for the department!
The Country as the President and Ambassadors to represent the Peoples, to speak for them!
The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is visible Jesus appointed Chief Shephard to represent her to speak for Jesus until he returns! YOUR....
DNB your church as the minister to speak for your church!

Now when it is stated that the Church will be built on Rock, what kind of rock is that: AC/DC, Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, Guns N' Roses?

 

[blü 2]

You said... God's Kingdom will be established on earth within the lifetime of some of Jesus' audience

blü 2 The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is the Body of "The KING!" The Church is the Body of Jesus on earth! The Kingdom is indeed on earth! AND..

That works equally well for Zeus, Wotan, Aten-Ra, the Great Spirit, on and on, take your pick.

blü 2 and The Kingdome is being "Sanctified" after the earth, after death!

But that's just a dream Kingdom, not the Second Coming and the establishment of a real world order under a real God ─ something that would force the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Shintoists, the unbelievers, the whole dang lot, to sit up and take actual notice, to drag off to hymn practice or incur a fine or imprisonment or even a smiting.

And the Holy Body of Jesus is in heaven!

Well, anyway, not on Earth ─ which is where the Kingdom is supposed to be.

 

[viole]

viole The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is full to the rafters with sinners; yet the church remains holy and blameless; People are sinners NOT the Church! Clearly if they are without sin they don't need to belong to the Body of Jesus, they don't need him!

Well, then I have only good news for you.

at the current rate, at least here in Central Europe, your Church will achieve the highest standards of perfection and purity. The one with no people in it.

i have to admit that I can’t wait for that to happen, either. And now I know you also rejoice at that prospect. I always thought that me and Catholics have zero in common, on account of me considering Catholicism the second most evil religion in the world.

But i was wrong. Totally wrong.
We seem to strive for the same objective. Isn’t that amazing?

ciao

- viole

 

[firedragon]

This idea of: ONLY the Bible is mans Authority is NOT scriptural! This teaching of "Bible ALONE" is a man made TRADITION; until the great De-Formation of the Christian Church it was unheard of, for the first 1700 years Church brought Jesus and salvation to the peoples, there were very few bibles!
Martin Luther introduced this tradition; his idea was to remove Church from his life!
Scriptures are clear: "Jesus gave his AUTHORITY to the Church to Teach all nations"!
Fact is... The Church came long before there were any bibles!

Dont you think you are conflicting? You are giving the authority to the church, not the Bible, but are quoting the Bible to do that. If the church came along before the Bible, why do you quote the Bible to justify what came prior to that?

Im curious to see your response if you dont mind.

 

[firedragon]

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Link Right off... For 600 years Christians have believed and taught "Jesus is God"!
The scriptures were used to teach; Jesus is God!
For 600 years the scriptures said.. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
The scriptures said for 600 years... .. 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The scriptures said for six hundred years.. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

THEN after 600 years Mohammad comes along and tells you "NOPE The Christians have had it wrong for 600 years.. God is NOT merciful he is not LOVE!"
Mohammad teaches after 600 years of Christians teaching "Jesus is God and Jesus died and rose from the dead to save man" that Jesus did not rise from the dead!
Mohammad taught opposite to what Christians believe!

Mohammad taught "God is NOT merciful God wants; An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth!
Link Mohammad twisted the Christian scriptures to say what he wanted God to have said! Satan also rejects Jesus as God.. Satan also rejects Love and Mercy!
Satan and Mohammod are in the same camp! Satan is Anti-Christian and so was Mohammod!
Mohammod came long after Jesus and Christians! Mohammad rejected Christians just as the "Anti-Christ!"

1. You dont know who in the world wrote the Gospel of John. You dont have a single manuscript close to the time.
2. The prologue of John is considered a redaction. You are quoting it.
3. You claim the church has the authority, but are quoting the NT.
4. You claim for 600 years etc etc and are quoting the prologue of John, but the Gospel was written at least 70 years after Jesus, so its not 600 years. Also the only early manuscript of John is dated to the 2nd to 3rd century. P52. Two or three inches.
5. Can you quote a single church writing, document, or any history that dates to the 1st half of the 1st century that teaches Jesus was God? Just one. So there is nothing authentic you can quote. But are appealing to what you think you know about Muhammed and his teaching that "Jesus is not God".
6. If you want to discuss mercy and the Bible, I can cut and paste many verses that would paint it murderous. Bloody murderous.
7. Which verse in your Bible that you yourself claim is not authoritative says the word "Christian" and that Satan is "Anti-Christian"? You made that up. Its a simple bogus claim.

Lets see if you can answer these directly

Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

Link Mohammad twisted the Christian scriptures to say what he wanted God to have said! Satan also rejects Jesus as God.. Satan also rejects Love and Mercy!

Lets see your treatment.

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 )

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 )

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 )

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 )

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 )

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 )

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 )

 

[Link]

Where are the clear prophecies for Muhammad in the gospels?

Salam

There is when Jesus (a) is asked if he is the Prophet and says no, that means, people are expecting "the Prophet" and he is not that Prophet.

There is also the fact Jesus (a) says he is the light of the world so long as he in the world, and this same station of the holy spirit. Holy spirit is light in heart of believers, and this is what Jesus (a) said he was, but only so long as he was in this world. This means someone has to occupy this position.

He says the Praised one is to come or if you want to go with more current translations that to me outright hiding the truth of the word, "comforter", so let's say it means comforter... if trinity is not seen as part of the Gospels, then everything Jesus (a) praises about himself applies to chosen ones of the past and of the comforter to come. As Jesus is leaving, Elijah and him coming back makes sense, because someone has to occupy the position of holy spirit before the "comforter/praised one" to come is also an instance of the holy spirit. To prove Elijah (a) came back, he talks about John (a) who was killed, but that he too was like Elijah (a) but was not recognized. This hinting why Elijah (A) is not in the open, but only seen by a few of his followers, but will occupy the position, because Jesus (A) says he is to go but will return.

And Torah, we see princes talked about from Ishmael in Torah and Jesus emphasizes the authority of anointed kings are not worldly but from higher realm and light of God. This means a king with God's Authority is coming to be inherited by Twelve Princes. This historically per Ibn Kathir was the reason majority of Jews came to Shiite Islam in the region. Ismail (A) having twelve sons according to this number, was to safeguard the number, but his twelve sons were not the princes, because his brother Isaac, and then Jacob, and then Joseph who succeeded Ismail's Authority.

The holy spirit had to become something mysterious, when it was more of a position occupied by his holy chosen ones, from Adam till the Mahdi as light and power pulling people to God. Otherwise Mohammad (s) being an instance of the holy spirit is so clear in the Gospels and his prophecy beyond clear, it's vivid.

As for the holy spirit, it's mystic, it's light, it's majestic, and inward, and spiritual, but it's not some unknown entity.

 

[Dogknox20]

That works equally well for Zeus, Wotan, Aten-Ra, the Great Spirit, on and on, take your pick.
But that's just a dream Kingdom, not the Second Coming and the establishment of a real world order under a real God ─ something that would force the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Shintoists, the unbelievers, the whole dang lot, to sit up and take actual notice, to drag off to hymn practice or incur a fine or imprisonment or even a smiting.
Well, anyway, not on Earth ─ which is where the Kingdom is supposed to be.

.
blü 2 I hope all is well ...
Matthew 12:28
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Matthew 21:31
“Which of the two did what his father wanted?” “The first,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

Mark 9:1
And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”
blü 2 The Power came at Pentecost upon the Church!

“The Kingdom is not a thing, it is not a geographical dominion like worldly kingdoms. It is a person; it is he; Jesus.
The Kingdom of God resides in the heart of man.
The Kingdom is the Church.
The Kingdom is both "Visible" and "Invisible"

 

[metis]

None of that's in scripture. Peter isn't that rock, his confession of faith is the rock and cornerstone.

Peter's name in Aramaic is "Kefa", which means "rock" or "stone", and this is the name Jesus gave him. His original name was "Simon [bar Jona]".

OTOH, Jesus is referred to as being the "Cornerstone", which is more important.

 

[Dogknox20]

Well, then I have only good news for you.

at the current rate, at least here in Central Europe, your Church will achieve the highest standards of perfection and purity. The one with no people in it.

i have to admit that I can’t wait for that to happen, either. And now I know you also rejoice at that prospect. I always thought that me and Catholics have zero in common, on account of me considering Catholicism the second most evil religion in the world.

But i was wrong. Totally wrong.
We seem to strive for the same objective. Isn’t that amazing?

ciao

- viole

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viole I hope all is well...
I reply: You have your OPINIONS!

The scriptures do not bare you out.. "The Catholic Church" IS the body of Jesus! The Catholic Church is built on ROCK this means it will never ever fail!
Throughout history there have been people trying to pull the rug out from under Jesus, God will never let it happen!

Think: The Church is like a structure built with playing cards, pull one out and the whole structure falls! For Two Thousand years many men have tried to pull her down this alone should give you pause! Satan has made many heresies all with this very goal.. NONE have been successful!
Jesus is ALWAYS with his One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church to the very end of time.. As he promised!

 

[Dogknox20]

Dont you think you are conflicting? You are giving the authority to the church, not the Bible, but are quoting the Bible to do that. If the church came along before the Bible, why do you quote the Bible to justify what came prior to that?

Im curious to see your response if you dont mind.

firedragon I hope all is well...
Good question!

The scriptures are used by the Church to arrive at truth! The Scriptures, Tradition and the Magisterium all working together!
..........................................................................
DICTIONARY DOT COM
Magisterium .......the teaching authority of the Roman Catholic Church, especially as exercised by bishops or the Pope.
................................................................

The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church used Tradition and the Magisterium to find the truly inspired words of God! With the help of the Holy Spirit she was guided to all the inspired letters and to reject the many (hundreds) of phony letters!
firedragon don't you think that the Holy Spirit would not stick around and also help her to INTERPRET the same letters!?

John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

 

[Dogknox20]

1. You dont know who in the world wrote the Gospel of John. You dont have a single manuscript close to the time.
2. The prologue of John is considered a redaction. You are quoting it.
3. You claim the church has the authority, but are quoting the NT.
4. You claim for 600 years etc etc and are quoting the prologue of John, but the Gospel was written at least 70 years after Jesus, so its not 600 years. Also the only early manuscript of John is dated to the 2nd to 3rd century. P52. Two or three inches.
5. Can you quote a single church writing, document, or any history that dates to the 1st half of the 1st century that teaches Jesus was God? Just one. So there is nothing authentic you can quote. But are appealing to what you think you know about Muhammed and his teaching that "Jesus is not God".
6. If you want to discuss mercy and the Bible, I can cut and paste many verses that would paint it murderous. Bloody murderous.
7. Which verse in your Bible that you yourself claim is not authoritative says the word "Christian" and that Satan is "Anti-Christian"? You made that up. Its a simple bogus claim.

Lets see if you can answer these directly

Cheers.

firedragon you have many questions..
First right off.. You question the scriptures.. The scriptures are the words of God! You pick and choose what you want to believe.. KNOWING full well Mohammad used the same Christian bible to produce the Koran!
#4 (above) I still claim Islam started long after Jesus rose from the dead! Muhammad (610–632) You cannot change history!
The Church Jesus established ON ROCK is still here to this day 2000 years later! Proving the TRUTH of Jesus!
Acts 1:38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

#5 (above) You want a quote from the first century! The Whole New Testament is a Church document; It was written by Christians guided by God!

#6.. You point at the sins of men and accuse God!
The Holy Church Jesus died for is his body!
The Church is full to the rafters with SINNERS! Jesus came to save the sinner! You have no need of saving because apparently you are without sin!
Jesus was without sin thus death could NOT hold him down! Jesus rose from death NEVER to die again!
The Church IS Jesus' Holy Sinless BODY!
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.

firedragon Jesus LOVES the CHURCH.. He DIED for her! Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

# 7
Christians are "Christ Followers"! The Anti-Christ is against Jesus the Christ! To be against Christ LOGIC ALONE would say; the Anti-Christ is against Christ followers! A good example would by Islam fits ever example (below)!
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
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