Bible Alone.. For Catholic's

[viole]

.
viole I hope all is well...
I reply: You have your OPINIONS!

The scriptures do not bare you out.. "The Catholic Church" IS the body of Jesus! The Catholic Church is built on ROCK this means it will never ever fail!
Throughout history there have been people trying to pull the rug out from under Jesus, God will never let it happen!

Well, whether it will fail or not is, according to the second part of your post, whether it will collapse as a cards castle. So, i am not sure now: is that a rock, or is it a cards castle? I hope you agree that the two things have different vulnerabilities that could cause their demise.

Think: The Church is like a structure built with playing cards, pull one out and the whole structure falls! For Two Thousand years many men have tried to pull her down this alone should give you pause! Satan has made many heresies all with this very goal.. NONE have been successful!
Jesus is ALWAYS with his One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church to the very end of time.. As he promised!

What is the problem here? That people are abandoning the church? Well, who would stay in an organization whose big boss, the pope, is accused to protect children rapists? I don’t know you, but I would be a little suspicious of anyone insisting of being a member of such an outfit. With all due respect, of course.

but, as you said, people are not important. They are just hopeless sinners. So, don’t you crave for the day when all humans will have abandoned it? Wouldn’t the Church have achieved Its highest level of purity? If not, why not?

ciao

- viole

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.......The Bible teaches that the pre existing Jesus, the Word, was not created. John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Just as at Genesis 1:16 we fine the word made and Not the word 'create' at John 1:3.
Also, please notice at John 1:10 that the world was 'made' because the world came into existence through Jesus.
So, just as the already created light at Genesis Day One, the already created light was 'made' to do something on Day Four.
We find that people saw Jesus. John wrote at John 1:18 that No man has seen God at any time. See John 6:46.
John believed pre-human Jesus was 'created' according to John at Revelation 3:14 B.

 

[firedragon]

firedragon I hope all is well...
Good question!

The scriptures are used by the Church to arrive at truth! The Scriptures, Tradition and the Magisterium all working together!
..........................................................................
DICTIONARY DOT COM
Magisterium .......the teaching authority of the Roman Catholic Church, especially as exercised by bishops or the Pope.
................................................................

The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church used Tradition and the Magisterium to find the truly inspired words of God! With the help of the Holy Spirit she was guided to all the inspired letters and to reject the many (hundreds) of phony letters!
firedragon don't you think that the Holy Spirit would not stick around and also help her to INTERPRET the same letters!?

John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Still you are giving authority to the scripture, not the church per se. Its contradicting. You are validating the church through the scripture, and validating the scripture through the church. This is the exact definition of circular arguments.

 

[firedragon]

firedragon you have many questions..
First right off.. You question the scriptures.. The scriptures are the words of God! You pick and choose what you want to believe.. KNOWING full well Mohammad used the same Christian bible to produce the Koran!

Thats not an answer. Its a Tu Quoque. If you wish to discuss the Quran, we can do that, but the question was on John. Ill cut and paste the question so that you dont miss it the second time, and try to avoid the Quran in your answer because if your validation to your Gospel of John is the Qur'an, then you dont have any grounding on your own.

1. You dont know who in the world wrote the Gospel of John. You dont have a single manuscript close to the time.

#4 (above) I still claim Islam started long after Jesus rose from the dead! Muhammad (610–632) You cannot change history!
The Church Jesus established ON ROCK is still here to this day 2000 years later! Proving the TRUTH of Jesus!
Acts 1:38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

Well you missed answering 3 questions. And you didnt even answer the fourth one. I will cut and paste the fourth question so that you can answer clearly. After that, try to answer the ones you missed.

4. You claim for 600 years etc etc and are quoting the prologue of John, but the Gospel was written at least 70 years after Jesus, so its not 600 years. Also the only early manuscript of John is dated to the 2nd to 3rd century. P52. Two or three inches.

#5 (above) You want a quote from the first century! The Whole New Testament is a Church document; It was written by Christians guided by God!

Thats not an answer. Probably because there is none. So again, let me cut and paste the question.

5. Can you quote a single church writing, document, or any history that dates to the 1st half of the 1st century that teaches Jesus was God? Just one. So there is nothing authentic you can quote. But are appealing to what you think you know about Muhammed and his teaching that "Jesus is not God".

# 7
Christians are "Christ Followers"! The Anti-Christ is against Jesus the Christ! To be against Christ LOGIC ALONE would say; the Anti-Christ is against Christ followers! A good example would by Islam fits ever example (below)!
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
.

You did not answer the question again. This is not about Jesus or the antichrist.

7. Which verse in your Bible that you yourself claim is not authoritative says the word "Christian" and that Satan is "Anti-Christian"? You made that up. Its a simple bogus claim.

Try and be specific.

Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

Link Christians have always believed Jesus is God! The topic was brought to a head 400 years after Jesus and it was settled then! Jesus is God/Man!

How could you prove that "Christians always believed Jesus is God"?

Do you have a single document that you can show what Christians believed during Jesus's time?

You will never find in your life. Never. There is none.

 

[blü 2]

.
blü 2 I hope all is well ...
Matthew 12:28
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

I confess that I've never seen a real demon, let alone driven one out. (But if I'd been the owner of those Gadarene pigs, and some guy made them all jump off a cliff, I'd be reaching for my lawyers.)

“The Kingdom is not a thing, it is not a geographical dominion like worldly kingdoms. It is a person; it is he; Jesus.

Not quite. If you look at your NT, you'll find "the Kingdom" has two different meanings. The first, found in nine verses, is the idea of the then-existing Christian community ─ see Mark 4:26, 10:15, Matthew 12.28, Luke 10:9, 10:11, 11:20, 17:20, 17:21, Romans 14:17.

The second, found in 19 verses, is the establishment on earth of a real kingdom, such as I mentioned in my previous post, ruling everyone on earth ─ see Mark 1:15, 9:1, 9:47, 10:23, 10:24, 14:25, Matthew 21:31, Luke 7:28, 9:27, 13:28, 21:31, 22:16. 22:18, Acts 14:22, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 6:10, 15:50, Galatians 5:21, 2 Thessalonians 1:5. and perhaps Acts 1:2.

Another 36 mentions of the Kingdom in the NT could mean either.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Wildswanderer I said .. "Jesus built his Church ON ROCK!" Jesus did not build on sand! Fools build on sand! To think the Church Jesus built on ROCK failed is to say "Jesus is a fool!"

What are you going on about? I didn't say Jesus failed. Maybe actually read my post before responding?

 

[Wildswanderer]

You are forced to believe God failed and that he needed Man to come to his rescue and BUILD BACK the Church Jesus lost! AS IF...

Nope. The church isn't a denomination. It's not Catholic or Protestant or Eastern Orthodox or Methodist or Wesleyan or Presbyterian or Baptist, or Pentecostal.
It's all true believers, no matter what church they might attend.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Peter's name in Aramaic is "Kefa", which means "rock" or "stone", and this is the name Jesus gave him. His original name was "Simon [bar Jona]".

OTOH, Jesus is referred to as being the "Cornerstone", which is more important.

The rock that the church is built on is the confession that Jesus is the Christ. No on any man.

 

[Dogknox20]

Well, whether it will fail or not is, according to the second part of your post, whether it will collapse as a cards castle. So, i am not sure now: is that a rock, or is it a cards castle? I hope you agree that the two things have different vulnerabilities that could cause their demise.


What is the problem here? That people are abandoning the church? Well, who would stay in an organization whose big boss, the pope, is accused to protect children rapists? I don’t know you, but I would be a little suspicious of anyone insisting of being a member of such an outfit. With all due respect, of course.

but, as you said, people are not important. They are just hopeless sinners. So, don’t you crave for the day when all humans will have abandoned it? Wouldn’t the Church have achieved Its highest level of purity? If not, why not?

ciao

- viole

You are a little mixed up.. The Church is filled with sinners! The Church at the same time is Holy and Blameless. Jesus came for the sinner not the people without sins.. Clearly you don't need saving!

 

[Dogknox20]

Still you are giving authority to the scripture, not the church per se. Its contradicting. You are validating the church through the scripture, and validating the scripture through the church. This is the exact definition of circular arguments.

.
firedragon.. The Authority of God was given to the Church by Jesus in person! God in person handed on his Authority!

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

firedragon rejecting Jesus is Rejecting God!
Luke 10:16
“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

The Bible (Scriptures) were put together by the One Church Jesus established on ROCK! The Church came 400 years before the Bible was complete! The Bible was completed and declared the Sacred words of God 200 more years before Mohamad and Islam came along! The ONLY way to reject Jesus is to reject the bible outright or Twist the words of God until they say what Islam wants God to have said!

Jesus is God.. as the scriptures tell you... BUT you reject the scriptures with the claim Jesus did not come out and say "I am God"! Every one else did!
John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

firedragon You have NOT seen what Thomas saw.... You reject Jesus is "Lord & God" you are NOT blessed! You have rejected salvation for the teaching of a MAN.... "An eye for an eye & a tooth for a tooth" & "God is NOT merciful, God is NOT LOVE!" & "Cut off heads, Cut off hands, stone people to death"! The ONLY way for Islam to justify their teaching is to reject what Christians believe; Islam MUST be "Anti-Christian" otherwise you would accept Jesus!

 

[Dogknox20]

How could you prove that "Christians always believed Jesus is God"?

Do you have a single document that you can show what Christians believed during Jesus's time?

You will never find in your life. Never. There is none.

FACT: Christians have ALWAYS believed Jesus is God The CHRIST! To be "Anti-Christ" you MUST be "Anti-Christian"!
firedragon You cannot reject what Christians have ALWAYS believed so you reject the scriptures as unbelievable!
The Scriptures can be twisted and massaged and massaged until God had said what you what God to have said. Thus the Holy Church and Tradition are also used to arrive at truth!
The Bible is the Words of God! It was declarer Sacred Scripture by the Church she used TRADITION to help arrive at this truth!
The CHURCH is the Authority She alone (with the Help of God the Holy Spirit) decided what scriptures are the words of God and what scriptures to reject as phony letters!

The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah
Matthew 1:1 This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

 

[Dogknox20]

What are you going on about? I didn't say Jesus failed. Maybe actually read my post before responding?

Wildswanderer I hope all is well...
This is what you said... None of that's in scripture. Peter isn't that rock, his confession of faith is the rock and cornerstone.

You are wrong...
The word Peter means "ROCK"!
Jesus declared Simon your name is ROCK!
John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).
The word Peter means "ROCK"!
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are ROCK(Peter), and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
The word Peter means "ROCK"!
Matthew 4:18
As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
The word Peter means "ROCK"!
Matthew 10:2
These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;

Wildswanderer facts are facts.. Jesus built on ROCK NOT on sand!

 

[Dogknox20]

Nope. The church isn't a denomination. It's not Catholic or Protestant or Eastern Orthodox or Methodist or Wesleyan or Presbyterian or Baptist, or Pentecostal.
It's all true believers, no matter what church they might attend.

AND...
Wildswanderer And here is the problem.. "The TRUE Believer believes the scriptures! People that reject the scriptures are trying to Re-Form or Re-Build the Church! They reject the idea the Church will never fall!

The people that reject the scriptures MUST reject the ONLY Church Jesus established ON ROCK not on sand!
The people that reject the scriptures MUST reject then the Earrly Church fathers ALL Catholics otherwise they would have to believe the scriptures!

Ignatius lived from around A.D. 35 to 107. He was the third bishop of Antioch HE SAID...
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is administered either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. —Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ch 8

Did you see it.. The Church Jesus established had BISHOPS!
Did you see it.. even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church

 

[viole]

You are a little mixed up.. The Church is filled with sinners! The Church at the same time is Holy and Blameless. Jesus came for the sinner not the people without sins.. Clearly you don't need saving!

Of course I don’t need saving, saving from what? I am perfectly happy with what I am. Saving is reserved to people who are not entirely confident about themselves, isn’t it.?

so, back to my point. Don’t you also think the church would be totally perfect if it had no people in it? Or do you think that something so amazingly perfect, as you said, need sinners, including a pope, the very head of that church, who has been proven to protect children rapists?

in other words, can you conceive of your church to have no human members at all? If not, how can you call it perfect? And how can you really blame people like Luther, or anyone else, if they think that maybe it does not entirely fulfills their moral standards?

ciao

- viole

 

[Wildswanderer]

Wildswanderer I hope all is well...
This is what you said... None of that's in scripture. Peter isn't that rock, his confession of faith is the rock and cornerstone.

You are wrong...
The word Peter means "ROCK"!
Jesus declared Simon your name is ROCK!
John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).
The word Peter means "ROCK"!
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are ROCK(Peter), and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
The word Peter means "ROCK"!
Matthew 4:18
As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
The word Peter means "ROCK"!
Matthew 10:2
These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;

Wildswanderer facts are facts.. Jesus built on ROCK NOT on sand!

Even if you think you are correct, that doesn't make Catholics the one true church.
It just means Peter was the first to take the gospel to the gentiles.
But Jesus was referring not to Peter, but to Peter’s confession of faith in verse 16: “You are the Christ, the son of the living God.”
Those who have placed their faith in Christ, as Peter did, are the church. Peter explained this in 1 Peter 2:4 when he told the believers who had been dispersed around the ancient world: “Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.”
The true church is built of numerous small petros “living stones” (1 Peter 2:5) who, like Peter, confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and those confessions of faith are the bedrock of the church.
Not any one denomination...

 

[Wildswanderer]

AND...
Wildswanderer And here is the problem.. "The TRUE Believer believes the scriptures! People that reject the scriptures are trying to Re-Form or Re-Build the Church! They reject the idea the Church will never fall!

The people that reject the scriptures MUST reject the ONLY Church Jesus established ON ROCK not on sand!
The people that reject the scriptures MUST reject then the Earrly Church fathers ALL Catholics otherwise they would have to believe the scriptures!

Ignatius lived from around A.D. 35 to 107. He was the third bishop of Antioch HE SAID...
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is administered either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. —Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ch 8

Did you see it.. The Church Jesus established had BISHOPS!
Did you see it.. even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church

I do believe the scripture. The Catholic church was the only one at that time. It's not that way today. The Catholic church became corrupt and others carried on the truth they had lost.

 

[Dogknox20]

Of course I don’t need saving, saving from what? I am perfectly happy with what I am. Saving is reserved to people who are not entirely confident about themselves, isn’t it.?

so, back to my point. Don’t you also think the church would be totally perfect if it had no people in it? Or do you think that something so amazingly perfect, as you said, need sinners, including a pope, the very head of that church, who has been proven to protect children rapists?

in other words, can you conceive of your church to have no human members at all? If not, how can you call it perfect? And how can you really blame people like Luther, or anyone else, if they think that maybe it does not entirely fulfills their moral standards?

ciao

- viole

You asked.. Don’t you also think the church would be totally perfect if it had no people in it?
I reply: I told you this already.. "The Church is Holy without blame!"

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.

viole The Church Jesus established is his Body.. All peoples IN the Church are IN the Body of Jesus!

 

[Dogknox20]

Even if you think you are correct, that doesn't make Catholics the one true church.
It just means Peter was the first to take the gospel to the gentiles.
But Jesus was referring not to Peter, but to Peter’s confession of faith in verse 16: “You are the Christ, the son of the living God.”
Those who have placed their faith in Christ, as Peter did, are the church. Peter explained this in 1 Peter 2:4 when he told the believers who had been dispersed around the ancient world: “Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.”
The true church is built of numerous small petros “living stones” (1 Peter 2:5) who, like Peter, confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and those confessions of faith are the bedrock of the church.
Not any one denomination...

.
Wildswanderer I hope all is well...
You said.. Those who have placed their faith in Christ, as Peter did, are the church.

I reply: To place your faith In Christ you MUST believe the words of Jesus! To place your faith In Christ you MUST believe the Scriptures!
You can't trust Jesus if you reject his words!

Wildswanderer The great De-Formation started about 1700 A.D. because people rejected the scriptures! 1700 years AFTER Jesus established his Holy Church on ROCK!
Scriptures tell you.. "Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church to the very end of time"! To believe these words of Jesus you can't at the same time teach: Jesus left his Church and we have men have to re-establish Jesus' church for him!
Wildswanderer Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church to the very end of time! The Church Jesus established 2000 years ago.. This means Jesus is STILL with the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church to this very day! FACT: The people of the great de-formation rejected the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church "The Body of Jesus"!

Jesus built on ROCK this means the Church he established will never ever fall!
Wildswanderer to say the Church Jesus established on ROCK did indeed fall; is to call Jesus a FOOL! It MEANS you did not place your Faith in Jesus you are then NOT in his Church!
Matthew 7:25
The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

QUESTION: Is Jesus a FOOL? Did Jesus' Holy Catholic Apostolic Church fail!?

Wildswanderer The One Holy Catholic Church is established on ROCK.. It was established on ROCK by God.. Just as the scriptures tell you!!
1)One because God is ONE! Not thousands of bodies all proclaiming the only truth but NOT TWO of these thousands of man made churches believe the same things!

2)Holy because God is Holy! The Body of Jesus is HOLY, full to the rafters with sinners; 1.2 Billion sinners, BUT remains HOLY!

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body.

3)Catholic.. Because God is Universal God is everyplace his body is everywhere on earth, in heaven and being sanctified purged of sin before entry into heaven!

4)Apostolic.. Only the One Holy Catholic Church Jesus established on ROCK has roots going back 2000 years to the Apostles! NO OTHER....
Wildswanderer no other Church has these four (4) marks!

 

[firedragon]

.
firedragon.. The Authority of God was given to the Church by Jesus in person! God in person handed on his Authority!

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

firedragon rejecting Jesus is Rejecting God!
Luke 10:16
“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

The Bible (Scriptures) were put together by the One Church Jesus established on ROCK! The Church came 400 years before the Bible was complete! The Bible was completed and declared the Sacred words of God 200 more years before Mohamad and Islam came along! The ONLY way to reject Jesus is to reject the bible outright or Twist the words of God until they say what Islam wants God to have said!

Jesus is God.. as the scriptures tell you... BUT you reject the scriptures with the claim Jesus did not come out and say "I am God"! Every one else did!
John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

firedragon You have NOT seen what Thomas saw.... You reject Jesus is "Lord & God" you are NOT blessed! You have rejected salvation for the teaching of a MAN.... "An eye for an eye & a tooth for a tooth" & "God is NOT merciful, God is NOT LOVE!" & "Cut off heads, Cut off hands, stone people to death"! The ONLY way for Islam to justify their teaching is to reject what Christians believe; Islam MUST be "Anti-Christian" otherwise you would accept Jesus!

Not a single answer.

1. No manuscripts
2. No dating
3. No authorship

Zilch.

Ill show you how God is love in the Bible since you are hell bent in speaking about Muhammed.

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 )


2) God’s Murders for Stupid Reasons:

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 )

God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and’ fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, “Strike me!” But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, “Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.” And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 )

Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 )