firedragon
Veteran Member
Show me one single document that says this from the 1st time of Jesus
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Bible Alone.. For Catholic's
- Thread starter Dogknox20
- Start date
Show me one single document that says this from the 1st time of Jesus
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Wildswanderer who taught you this!? To believe this others carried on the truth they had lost. you MUST reject the scriptures!
The Bible is a book of the Church!
Your scriptures ALONE Church is forced to reject the scriptures to teach "Scriptures ALONE" this is the truth!
The scriptures are clear.. Jesus is NOT a fool the scriptures tell you Jesus remains with his Church to the very end of time! You MUST reject Jesus to believe the lies of these thousands of man made churches! AS IF...
Wildswanderer as if Satan had somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan took the body of Jesus his BRIDE from Jesus! To believe this teaching you MUST reject the Scriptures.. This is the TRUTH!
Scriptures are clear.. The CHURCH Jesus established on ROCK will never fall!
Scriptures are clear.. Listen to the Church or be treated as Pagan! (Pagan a person outside of God' family) this is the truth!
Scriptures are clear.. Jesus is ALWAYS with his HOLY church to the end of time! This means he is NOT with the thousands of man made churches preaching they must Re-Build the Church God lost! this is the truth!
Scriptures are clear.. Jesus said "Baptism makes Disciples" Clearly Jesus is the Brother of the Disciple! If Jesus is your Brother then God would be your father! Thousands of man made churches reject Baptism as only symbolic! This is the truth!
Scriptures are clear.. The CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth! this is the truth!
Scriptures are clear.. "Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to Guide The One Holy Catholic Church into all truth!" This means the De-Formers believe the Guide God himself guided into error!
Scriptures are clear.. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to FOREVER guide his Church! Can ONLY be the ONE CHURCH JESUS LEFT ON EARTH! This means the de-Formers taught the Holy Spirit left & Jesus lied! This is the truth!
Scriptures are clear.. He who rejects the CHURCH rejects Jesus.. thus they reject GOD! This means the de-formers of the great protest Reject God!
Scriptures are very clear... "The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established on ROCK is the body of Jesus!" This means the thousands of man made churches that MUST reject the scriptures are NOT part of the body!
Scriptures are clear.. Scripture PROPHESY tells you "From Now On; All in the family of Mary will honor her as BLESSED!" ONLY.. The Catholic can say YES we have always honored Mary as blessed! ONLY the Catholic Church can fulfill this prophesy! This is the truth!
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Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
History proves you wrong!
For six hundred years Christians have taught Jesus is God! Christians have always taught Jesus rose from the dead!
Christians have always taught Love God & Love neighbor!
1 Corinthians 13:1
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
firedragon God is "LOVE"!
Islam is doing the work of Satan; Anti-Christ.. Anti-Christian! Satan hates LOVE the Anti- Christ would not teach Love saves! 1 Corinthians 13:1-13 is strong teaching for a Muslim!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
How about Christian teaching that tells you, Jesus is God! LOOK in the Christian bible!
It was written by Christians (NT)
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
Immanuel means God with us.
firedragon cry and wine all you want HISTORY proves you wrong!
Christians have ALWAYS taught and believed "Jesus is God"!
Christians have taught "Jesus is God" for 600 years before Islam and Muhammad came along! What you have to do is PROVE Jesus is NOT God!
The 2000 year history of Christianity proves you wrong! There can only be one truth 2+2=4
firedragon
Veteran Member
Your church proves you wrong.
Irenaeus and Epiphanius both at different times wrote about Ebionites when they were calling people heretics. Ebionites did not believe Jesus was God. Early. Very very early. It was written in against heresies, and they go to the length of quoting some documents of the Ebionites.
Murdering Children
Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 )
God Will Kill Children
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.” O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don’t give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, “All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.” (Hosea 9:11-16 )
Kill Men, Women, and Children
“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 )
God Kills all the First Born of Egypt
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 )
Kill Old Men and Young Women
“You are my battle-ax and sword,” says the LORD. “With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. “As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem,” says the LORD. “Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy,” says the LORD. “I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out,” says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)
firedragon
Veteran Member
Well, you are wrong. Jesus is not called God in any of the Synoptics, and John deifies him 70 years after Jesus is dead. You dont have a single authentic document from Jesus's time. So all you can do is turn it on the Muslims, Muhammed, call people names, cry and wine as you say, and repeat the same false statement "history proves you wrong". Repeating the same thing does not make it true.
And because your intention is to demonise Islam just to feel good about your theology, here you go.
God Will Kill the Children of Sinners
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 )
More Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.(Isaiah 13:15-18 )
Brian2
Veteran Member
Christians have always believed Jesus is the Son of God and that this meant that He is equal to His Father.
(John 5:18). This of course meant that Jesus was God along with His Father and so the 2 were one God. (John 10:30-33) So Thomas was about to call Jesus "My Lord and My God" (John 20:28)
Brian2
Veteran Member
70 years later is not much, and it was probably less than that. But if you don't believe the gospel you don't believe it.
Paul wrote a lot earlier and he is good on the deity of Jesus.
Muhammad was 600 years after Jesus and so he did not know anything about Jesus.
Muhammad denies the death of Jesus on the cross and so denies not only that Jesus is God but also the gospel of Jesus dying for our sins.
Brian2
Veteran Member
The New World Translation used "came into existence" instead of "made" at John 1:3. It is quite straight forward, whereas Rev 3:14 is not straight forward because "beginning" can mean other things, including "ruler" and "origin". Jesus is the ruler of the creation.
Brian2
Veteran Member
That was John the Baptist (John 1:21)
It sounds like you are saying that the gospels were changed to show the promise of the Holy Spirit by Jesus to His disciples, and does that mean that you believe the Holy Spirit was never given to His disciples at Pentecost (Acts 2)
Are you saying that it should have been Ishmael who got the inheritance of Abraham?
All this does not sound like clear prophecies in the gospel about Muhammad.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Not really. Son of God was always a phrase used for and by many to mean Gods representative on earth. Like Ephraim. That never meant "God".
You are right. Paul did write earlier than any of the Gospels. But there is information in the gospels themselves that there was dispute between Paul and the Disciples.
ITs true that Muhammed cane centuries after Jesus. But do you put the same standard on the Gospels to Moses? How many years later did Jesus and the Gospels come out? Do you apply the same standards?
Could you tell me why every time someone questions the veracity of Christianity or the NT Muhammed is taken into the picture for justification? Is not that a Tu Quoque?
It is not a valid argument.
Brian2
Veteran Member
In the Tanakh the sons of God are all types of Jesus. The angels, Adam, Israel and Ephraim (both God's firstborn) the Kings are all types of the Messiah for Christians and Prophecies about them are sometimes about the Messiah.
I don't know of any dispute mentioned in the gospels.
Paul confronted Peter when Peter showed deference to the Jewish Christians from Jerusalem and ate with them instead of with the Gentiles.
Paul had dispute with some Jewish Christians who wanted to make the keeping of the law an obligation for Gentile Christians, but that was sorted (Acts 15) in favour of those who said that they should not have to keep the law.
Salvation is not about keeping commandments, justification is through faith in Jesus because of His death on the cross.
It's all God's Word and as such is true.
It is a valid argument that if John is wrong because he wrote 60-70 years after Jesus then Muhammad also must be wrong since he was 600 years after Jesus.
What is invalid is to say that John was 60-70 years after Jesus so John is wrong.
Whether there is hypocrisy involved is beside the point.
Using the accusation that I used Tu Quo Que is invalid and does not invalidate my argument.
Is Muhammad wrong because he came 600 years later? Answer "no" and you agree with me about John.
And the problem with that is, they take just one scripture to support their own idea and don’t care much about the rest that would put the one scripture in right context. Priest, pope, or any human teacher is only useful, if he knows the whole picture and can show the meaning that Bible gives for single scriptures. Bible explains what it means, but many don’t want to read the whole book to understand it, they like more their own teachings. And unfortunately, the same problem is often with religious authorities, thy preach their own doctrines, not God’s word.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Yes! The Catholic church did exactly that! They created false and corrupt doctrine and frauded people.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I do... which is why I reject Catholic doctrine.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Sorry mate. This is just bogus.
Council of Jerusalem.
Just saying "its all Gods word" is not any kind of valid answer. Sorry but this is just bogus.
Okay. So lets say Muhammed was wrong. So what? How in the world would that justify anything?
Its just an escape when people cannot prove their case.
My wound is great because you have a wound. Lick it.
Cheap argument.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Scripture ALONE is NOT biblical!
Scriptures are very clear...
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
The Bereans were MORE noble because they rejected "Scriptures ALONE"!
Those in Thessalonica were LESS NOBLE because they rejected the teaching of the Church! Those in Thessalonica believed in the Scriptures ALONE! BUT.....
But they will have an excuse when they stand in judgement; Those in Thessalonica did not have written in their Old Testament "Listen to the Church" as we do!
The Protestors all those people who reject the authority of the Church have NO excuse at Judgement! They have written in their New Testament "Listen to the Church"!
The De-Formers of the great protest are even less then those in Thessalonica they are NOT Noble!
Scriptures are very clear...
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
The Bereans were MORE noble because they rejected "Scriptures ALONE"!
Those in Thessalonica were LESS NOBLE because they rejected the teaching of the Church! Those in Thessalonica believed in the Scriptures ALONE! BUT.....
But they will have an excuse when they stand in judgement; Those in Thessalonica did not have written in their Old Testament "Listen to the Church" as we do!
The Protestors all those people who reject the authority of the Church have NO excuse at Judgement! They have written in their New Testament "Listen to the Church"!
The De-Formers of the great protest are even less then those in Thessalonica they are NOT Noble!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
History cannot be changed... Christians have ALWAYS taught "Jesus is God"!
firedragon The scriptures tell you Jesus is God.. You are like all others who reject Jesus they also reject the scriptures!
History cannot be changed...For 600 years before Mohammad; Christians have taught "Jesus is God" they also taught "Jesus rose from the dead!"
The Christian teaches "God is LOVE!" We are the Children of God!
Islam teaches "God is MASTER!" the Muslim is SERVENT!
The Muslim has a different god then the Christian! Christians call "God FATHER!" Because we are IMMERSED (ADDED) to the risen Body of God' ONLY Son we are thus God' Children!
God adopts all Christians into his holy family that have been ADDED to the risen can't die body of Jesus! I am not afraid to say "Abba" To my God!
firedragon I cannot change history & you can not change history.. Try as you might... Just like a dog barking up a dead dogs ssa the dog still will not get up! You change nothing!
Facts remain... My God is LOVE as the scriptures tll you!
Your god is Master "An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth"! Your god is a different god.
Satan hates LOVE he hates Jesus! The Anti-Christ would never be Anti-Islam!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
1213 First.. I hope all is well...
You believe all churches are the same... You forget all the scripture that say to you.....
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to his One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church that he established on ROCK... To guide his Church into ALL Truth!
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to his Church as a guide "FOREVER"!
Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Holy Church to the end of time!
"Hear the Church you hear Jesus, reject the Church you reject Jesus PLUS God himself!"
You forget it was the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church that Jesus established on ROCK...that made your bible! Guided by the Holy Spirit the Church decided the truly inspired words of God from the many other letters that were NOT inspired! Then Jesus' Holy Church put all the words of God into ONE BOOK she named "The Bible"! TOSS....
1213 toss your bible out of your stinking bathroom window if your reject the Church that made your bible! If you reject the Church how could you trust her book!
FACT: The Church came before the Bible!
LOGIC ALONE says.. If the Holy Spirit (God) helped in the making of the Bible don't you think the Holy Spirit would not also stick around and help INTERPRET the same scriptures!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Wildswanderer All I read from you is accusation and innuendo .. Facts would help!
Remember to say what you say; you MUST reject the scriptures to say it! EXACTLY what the first protestors did when they broke up the church and de-formed!
Give me a false doctrine! You forget it was the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church that Jesus established on ROCK...that made your bible! Guided by the Holy Spirit the Church decided the truly inspired words of God from the many other letters that were NOT inspired! Then Jesus' Holy Church put all the words of God into ONE BOOK she named "The Bible"! TOSS....
Wildswanderer toss your bible out of your stinking bathroom window if your reject the Church that made your bible! If you reject the Church how could you trust her book!
The Church came before the Bible! If the Holy Spirit (God) helped in the making of the Bible don't you think the Holy Spirit would not also stick around and help INTERPRET the same scriptures!