Bible contradictions

[Betho_br]

Is this intended as a casual observation or as evidence for something?

Parenthetically, I've always found it interesting that the Tanakh references to the New Testament show a heavy reliance on the LXX rather than the MT. I would have thought that the Son of God would have spoken to Paul in Koine Greek if only as a courtesy.​

Jesus, according to historical tradition, primarily spoke Hebrew, especially when engaging with educated Jewish leaders. However, when addressing the general public, he utilized Aramaic, the common language of the time. This linguistic versatility reflects Jesus' adaptability in diverse social contexts.

The Gospels, which chronicle the teachings and life of Jesus, represent a meticulous compilation of oral traditions originally conveyed in Hebrew and Aramaic. The task of translating these traditions into Greek was undertaken with precision, drawing inspiration from the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament.

One should be cautious when discussing "Jesus" with me, as he is entirely different from the "Jesus" preached in these two millennia. My Jesus taught that the Jewish Law brings eternal salvation to the people of Israel; that Jesus approached the rejected scepter of Joseph, including taking refuge in Egypt, dividing the genealogy into 3x14=42 NOMOS, and finally seeking refuge in Ephraim; this Jesus faced death traps from his brothers, among many other discrepancies.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Gospels, which chronicle the teachings and life of Jesus, represent a meticulous compilation of oral traditions originally conveyed in Hebrew and Aramaic.

Thanks for the response.

As for the rest, you would benefit from reading Udo Schnelle's The First One Hundred Years of Christianity.

 

[Betho_br]

Thanks for the response.

As for the rest, you would benefit from reading Udo Schnelle's The First One Hundred Years of Christianity.

The opening of the book underscores a pivotal historical moment by referencing Pliny's letter to Emperor Trajan (pg 27). This document assumes a central role as a primary piece of evidence for the existence of early Christian worship. Significantly, its origin as a communication from detractors of Christianity lends it an undeniable authenticity. The mention of Pliny's letter not only enriches the narrative with a unique perspective but also stands as a crucial historical testimony, contributing to a more profound understanding and appreciation of the religious context of that era.

In my opinion, the author of the book demonstrated profound grounding from the outset, a detail often overlooked. To me, he appears as a true scholar of Scriptures, lending a robust foundation to his work.

I'm about to finish reading the book.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As for the rest, you would benefit from reading Udo Schnelle's The First One Hundred Years of Christianity.

The opening of the book underscores a pivotal historical moment by referencing Pliny's letter to Emperor Trajan (pg 27). This document assumes a central role as a primary piece of evidence for the existence of early Christian worship. Significantly, its origin as a communication from detractors of Christianity lends it an undeniable authenticity. The mention of Pliny's letter not only enriches the narrative with a unique perspective but also stands as a crucial historical testimony, contributing to a more profound understanding and appreciation of the religious context of that era.

In my opinion, the author of the book demonstrated profound grounding from the outset, a detail often overlooked. To me, he appears as a true scholar of Scriptures, lending a robust foundation to his work.

I'm about to finish reading the book.

I'm sorry. To what book are you referring? Page 27 of the book referenced above deals primarily with "Greco-Roman Culture" and the cult of Isis.

 

[Betho_br]

I'm sorry. To what book are you referring? Page 27 of the book referenced above deals primarily with "Greco-Roman Culture" and the cult of Isis.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

@Betho_br :

Interesting. What format is that? I'm using the 2020 translation published by Baker Academic.

 

[Betho_br]

@Betho_br :

Interesting. What format is that? I'm using the 2020 translation published by Baker Academic.

This is the Google Books format; I paid $12 for the book

The First One Hundred Years of Christianity, An Introduction to Its History, Literature, and Development - Google Play

Beginning as a marginal group in Galilee, the movement initiated by Jesus of Nazareth became a world religion within 100 years. Why, among various religious movements, did Christianity succeed? This major work by internationally renowned scholar Udo Schnelle traces the historical, cultural, and...

play.google.com

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This is the Google Books format; I paid $12 for the book

Thanks. When did you get it?

To help me cross reference, in what chapter is your page 27?

 

[Colt]

When I was a teenager, Christian apologetics was my thing. I would like to create a thread about contradictions in the Bible. Believers of it often claim it is without contradiction, something I used to tout.
Let’s compile the contradictions, and let’s try to explain them if possible.
I’ll start.
The account of how King Saul died. 1 Samuel 31 says that Saul killed himself, yet immediately after, in 2 Samuel 1 , an amalekite says that he killed Saul.
So context is important, right? On first glance, there are contradictions in the accounts. I read a scholarly commentary book on the books of Samuel, so I’ll relay what i learned from it. The scholar said that amalekites were thematically supposed to represent deceit. The original audience of the text would have understood that the amalekite was lying for personal gain, he did not really kill Saul.
Also, 1 Samuel and 2 Samuel is from the same author. Would it be likely that an author would contradict himself right away?
So that is one contradiction shoddily explained away. Let’s bring out all the contradictions!

Romans 5


12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. 13For sin was in the world before the law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who did not sin in the way that Adam transgressed. He is a pattern of the One to come.

Several problems.

1) The crafty beast was already evil, already working against God's will, sin was already in the world.

2) Eve sinned first, so technically it was by 1 woman that sin entered the world but due to the old chauvinistic belief that man controlled his women he got blamed.

3) Cain feared people out in the world away from his own, because the world is very old and already populated when Adam and Eve suddenly arrive on the scene as 2 full grown, educated adults.

 

[Ajax]

The opening of the book underscores a pivotal historical moment by referencing Pliny's letter to Emperor Trajan (pg 27). This document assumes a central role as a primary piece of evidence for the existence of early Christian worship. Significantly, its origin as a communication from detractors of Christianity lends it an undeniable authenticity....

I'm sorry to be the bearer of these news....

Pliny the Younger's letter to Trajan regarding the Christians is a crucial subject for the studies on early Christianity. A serious quarrel among scholars concerning its genuineness arose between the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th; per contra, Plinian authorship has not been seriously questioned in the last few decades. After analysing various kinds of internal and external evidence in favour of and against the authenticity of the letter, a modern stylometric method is applied in order to examine whether internal linguistic evidence allows one to definitely settle the debate.The findings of this analysis tend to contradict received opinion among modern scholars, affirming the authenticity of Pliny’s letter, and suggest instead the presence of large amounts of interpolation inside the text of the letter, since its stylistic behaviour appears highly different from that of the rest of Book X.

An application of a profile-based method for authorship verification: Investigating the authenticity of Pliny the Younger's letter to Trajan concerning the Christians

Abstract. Pliny the Younger's letter to Trajan regarding the Christians is a crucial subject for the studies on early Christianity. A serious quarrel among scho

academic.oup.com

 

[Betho_br]

Thanks. When did you get it?

To help me cross reference, in what chapter is your page 27?

Chapter 1: "On writing a History of Origins", Paragraph 1.2 "History and Method"

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Chapter 1: "On writing a History of Origins", Paragraph 1.2 "History and Method"

Found it.

In my copy, the reference to Tacitus is found (roughly a third of the way down) on page 4 in the section "Sources."

Adding to the strangeness is that the pages prior to page 1 are designated v through xxiii -- why it should starts with v is beyond me.

 

[Betho_br]

Lamento ser o portador desta notícia....

A carta de Plínio, o Jovem a Trajano a respeito dos cristãos é um tema crucial para os estudos sobre o cristianismo primitivo. Uma séria disputa entre os estudiosos sobre a sua genuinidade surgiu entre o final do século XIX e o início do século XX; por outro lado, a autoria pliniana não foi seriamente questionada nas últimas décadas. Depois de analisar vários tipos de evidências internas e externas a favor e contra a autenticidade da carta, um método estilométrico moderno é aplicado para examinar se as evidências linguísticas internas permitem resolver definitivamente o debate. recebeu opinião entre os estudiosos modernos, afirmando a autenticidade da carta de Plínio, e sugere, em vez disso, a presença de grandes interpolações dentro do texto da carta, uma vez que seu comportamento estilístico parece altamente diferente daquele do resto do Livro X.

An application of a profile-based method for authorship verification: Investigating the authenticity of Pliny the Younger's letter to Trajan concerning the Christians

Abstract. Pliny the Younger's letter to Trajan regarding the Christians is a crucial subject for the studies on early Christianity. A serious quarrel among scho

academic.oup.com

Pliny’s Letter about Christians

Among ancient sources used by historians to chart the rise of early Christianity, Pliny the Younger’s letter to Emperor Trajan is commonly taken as crucial.[1] In a newly-published article, howeve…

larryhurtado.wordpress.com

 

[Betho_br]

Certainly, Pliny's letter is susceptible to criticism, as mentioned earlier, particularly from opponents of Christianity. However, it is crucial to emphasize that this is the sole indisputable document attesting to the existence of a Christ worshipped as God in the recent history of the church. The inherently polarizing nature of the subject inevitably prompts inquiries, but the authenticity and historical significance of the letter remain pivotal in understanding the evolution of Christianity.

A noteworthy observation pertains to the Greek use of the word "theos" (Elohim) often encompassing both human magistrates and divine entities. In the context of Pliny's letter, the term "God" seems to allude to a "Christological Theos," serving as a dwelling place for YHVH. This concept aligns with the exploration of symbolic imagery in the Book of Revelation, where the notion of a tabernacle for the habitation of YHVH is delved into.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Pliny’s Letter about Christians

Among ancient sources used by historians to chart the rise of early Christianity, Pliny the Younger’s letter to Emperor Trajan is commonly taken as crucial.[1] In a newly-published article, howeve…

larryhurtado.wordpress.com

Interesting, not the discussion, though that is interesting as well, this is the first time I have seen someone tip their hand that they are using Google translate. There is nothing wrong with that, and if I was at a forum that spoke another language I would do the same myself. But I can recognize Portuguese when I see it. Mainly because it is not quite Spanish. It appears that you are from Portugal or probably more likely Brazil. Do you post in English or is that translated as well? Either way they both appear to be very clear. Google translate has come a long way over the years.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

 

[Betho_br]

Interesting, not the discussion, though that is interesting as well, this is the first time I have seen someone tip their hand that they are using Google translate. There is nothing wrong with that, and if I was at a forum that spoke another language I would do the same myself. But I can recognize Portuguese when I see it. Mainly because it is not quite Spanish. It appears that you are from Portugal or probably more likely Brazil. Do you post in English or is that translated as well? Either way they both appear to be very clear. Google translate has come a long way over the years.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

I'm Brazilian and I'm not fluent in English. I have enormous difficulty dealing with erudite religious subjects in other languages, especially English. I generally review all posts. Yes, in the past, it was impossible for me to participate in this forum.

 

[Anne1]

that this is the sole indisputable document attesting to the existence of a Christ worshipped as God in the recent history of the church. The inherently p

Paul in 1 Cor 8:5 gives worship to Christ as equal to God by rewriting the Shema to include Christ - "one God (heis Theos) and one Lord (heis Kryios). This is pretty clearly a liturgical acclamation, and a radical rewriting of all that had been previously known about God.

1 Clement in 95 AD and the epistles of Ignatius of Antioch attest to the worship. of Christ as God.

 

[Audie]

Paul in 1 Cor 8:5 gives worship to Christ as equal to God by rewriting the Shema to include Christ - "one God (heis Theos) and one Lord (heis Kryios). This is pretty clearly a liturgical acclamation, and a radical rewriting of all that had been previously known about God.

1 Clement in 95 AD and the epistles of Ignatius of Antioch attest to the worship. of Christ as God.

A lot of people have been worshipped as god.

 

[Anne1]

A lot of people have been worshipped as god.

Yes but only one fulfilled over 150 prophecies, perfomed miracles, rose from the dead, and began a religion that is the largest in the world.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes but only one fulfilled over 150 prophecies, perfomed miracles, rose from the dead, and began a religion that is the largest in the world.

I'll guess you're talking about Jesus.

Can you tell us the prophecy he fulfilled that you think is best established by the evidence?