Bill Cosby.....You Know You Wanna Discuss It.

[MysticSang'ha]

No it isn't. Have you ever heard of a chaperone?

For adults? We've moved past a paternalistic social custom and are far more encouraging of independent and autonomous people of age.

What has been shown to work has been the increase in teaching the signs of enthusiastic consent in comprehensive sex education courses, as well as pockets of college campus initiatives that sets coasters in the local bars such as "got consent?"

It isn't a lot, but it gets people aware of the term. It needs to reach the high schools, where the bigger problems of smartphones capturing images of underage victims have been used instead to shame and bully the victims instead of using them as evidence of a crime. The notion of consent is still being thought as a progressive mindset, but it's crucial to the underpinning of a healthy society where the reduction of sexual assault is the goal.

 

[Robert.Evans]

We already do. The problem is when the kinds of precautions are expected because we're told that rapists just can't help themselves. Where people must re-arrange details of every part of their lives more so than others because of the mythical monster hiding in the bushes.

So, of course, women must wear whistles, carry keys like weapons, walk assertively to their cars, lock the car doors when they get in the car, learn how to defend themselves when attacked from behind or from the side or when the hair is grabbed, how to get out of the trunk of a car, how to dial 911 when being faced by knifepoint or gun point, body language signals of people we've met on who looks trustworthy, don't wear ponytails to frat parties, don't accept drinks from people you don't know, don't accept drinks from people you've just started dating, know where the exits are and formulate escape plans, and on and on and on and on.

This is an everyday consideration for the majority of women, and I've only listed some of the precautions taken. I have many more as a business owner who employs minorities in a town where there exists a white supremacist chapter a few blocks away (I've already had threatening notes left on my store window).

What I'm wanting to change is the level of freedom that women like myself have and to ensure equal liberties and protections with men. To suggest that women must NOT have the same freedoms as men is what I find to be problematic for a society that thinks all citizens should have equal opportunity.

Am I against taking precautions? Nope. But should a society expect women to take precautions that are far and away much more than men? I disagree. I think that places men in an assumption that they're all potential rapists and all women as potential victims. I don't think that reflects a healthy society at all.

You have an awful lot of ''what to do after the fact'' clauses there. What about ''don't go into certain situations in the first place'' clauses which would alleviate many of the problems we see, and the trauma which would still come from being caught in the first place. Bad idea to teach after the fact, better to teach , don't get into it in the first place. But that is freedom is it not. And in case you still don't know, some men, as some women, do rape. So it is no use saying that that we should not allow for situations that we know exists in the first place. As much as you might think you are doing right, I think if I had a daughter, I would not send her to one of your classes.

 

[Robert.Evans]

A lot of religious belief is wrong because it tends to be irrational amd unsubstantiated and this leads to oppression and injustice.

Sometimes.
But it is the whole picture we must consider not just the physical, which if you are an atheist, is all you look at.

Accordingly to what? Arbitrary nonsense that some ancient savages came up with to control others?



Daft things like be independant individuals
with the same rights and liberties as everyone else? It's a good thing when women break free from the dark caves of primitive, superstitious beliefs.

You would have to give evidence that they are superstitious beliefs, which you can't, so therefore makes that sentence mere rhetoric and emotion without content. Women breaking free, as you put it, to be immoral, is not good. On the other hand, if they are part of something that is equally wrong, then fine. But not out of the frying pan and into he fire eh.

 

[Robert.Evans]

What on earth are you gibbering about? There is trauma beyond mere physical pain.

So then physical pain is of no consideration then. So you are suggesting that they are violently beate up because that is not as bad as the emotional... I disagree. Physical pain will disappear, but its effects will on the person will not. I can't believe I even have to point this out

 

[Robert.Evans]

Food can be drugged, too. Are you going to stop eating?

If i thought there was a chance of being drugged in a resteraunt or someone else's house, yes. Wouldn't you?

 

[Robert.Evans]

No, the problem isn't rights and freedoms, but rather those who would infringe upon them, like rapists or those who think women need to be confined and controlled, for example.

So you ignore many other things that could prevent it. An over simplification of the problem I think

 

[Robert.Evans]

For adults? We've moved past a paternalistic social custom and are far more encouraging of independent and autonomous people of age.

and with moving past it we increase dangers.... hence this post

What has been shown to work has been the increase in teaching the signs of enthusiastic consent in comprehensive sex education courses, as well as pockets of college campus initiatives that sets coasters in the local bars such as "got consent?"

which is only reducing a problem that is largely caused by the same people you are targeting. What is wrong with not being so immoral in the first place, having smaller groups of people you know well, perhaps not drinking, or not so much, leaving with your partner etc. Freedom increases risks. You let the lion out and then come up with answers how to deal with it. I say repair the cage before it gets out. Yours might deal with the problem as mine, but yours will have more consequences and trauma than mine.

It isn't a lot, but it gets people aware of the term. It needs to reach the high schools, where the bigger problems of smartphones capturing images of underage victims have been used instead to shame and bully the victims instead of using them as evidence of a crime. The notion of consent is still being thought as a progressive mindset, but it's crucial to the underpinning of a healthy society where the reduction of sexual assault is the goal.

no images in the form of anything. Ban cameras for personal use and that does not happen. Now it is freedom of market forces. Again freedom brings its problems. Equally they could be banned out of schools considering the age of the people using them and the problems they can cause

 

[Robert.Evans]

In court proceedings it should be against the law to put any blame on the victim. The victim should never be put on trial by anyone. BUT some rapes might not happen IF all people will be more careful about who they will TRUST.

Even in the OT they had judges to decide between problems where one said, He did it, and the other said, No you did it. How is one to judge if one says he raped me, and the other says I did not? How is the accused get justice. I can recall a university young man who was falsly accused of rape ( and everyone knew it even the girls) and yet his name was dragged through the mud, and no one ever knew hers. Where is the justice in that? They choose to protect future rape victims of women but the men can go take a running jump. That is equality apparently.

In the OT it would be clear if she had been raped if a virgin, but if not, then she would have been with her husband. It is harder to commit then I think, even though not erradicated altogether.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Patriarchy? And how it exists in our society, and how men are expected to be predatory and women are expected to guard against such predator behavior.

Yes or no? And do you see matriarchal sentiments in these occurrences? In a predator like Cosby being able to perpetrate assaults multiple times over the years and maintain his image as the good dad in the public eye?

You understand if blacks and whites did not live together this would not have happened. It is another ideal that poeple have that does always work too well.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Of course, everyone should take
precautions, but unless you want to live your life sealed away from the world everything still carries risk.

Of course. But there are people here who seem to be saying the opposite.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Of course, everyone should take
precautions, but unless you want to live your life sealed away from the world everything still carries risk.

Anyway, that is just a general statment you have made which adds nothing to the argument, We already know that people want freedom, that is one reason we have crimes in the first place. But we can give solid advice to keep people from certain situations by changing lifestyles.... I suppose you would call that sealing yourself away.

 

[Robert.Evans]

This is true. You could say that they made a poor judgement call, but it still doesn't make them responsible or at fault for what another person decides to do to them, nor does it lessen the guilt or accountability of the assailant.

So you see.... the bottom line is, when you get rid of yor preconceived ideas, you are agreeing with me.. haha

 

[Robert.Evans]

No fault, but fault? *facepalm*

Please, keep attempting to place more undue burden on the women who were assaulted.

she is not. She is merely trying to stop the situation happenign in the first place, which makes you feel guilty, so you will not accept it, so the problem continues. In any other subject, people would laugh at such a thing, but not this one it appears. Everyone must protect the female of the species it seems.

How do we warn boys how not to get raped? I've asked this question for years on RF, and have yet to receive a suitable answer. And after being accused of not caring about male victims of rape, I'd like to hear those who rail about male victims being ignored how they should be taking precautions.

First you have to tell them there is such a thing, and then keep them from gangs. That means tougher laws and no gangs. Put me in charge, and you would have NO gangs ... I guarantee it. People would live in their own environment, there own space, their own sector. Then there is no problem. Everyone is with who they want to be with. I can be in my safe space, and you can he in your free space where there are more risks. What about chastity belts? Make it law. That has stopped it.... ahhh, but hang on, freewill, freedom!

I have my approaches on how to address the problem of rape culture overall, which includes the reduction of male and female victims of sexual assault no matter their age, but surely others would like to chime in?

Surely they would. You seem to be in favour of the way society is now, that means little will change. I am in favour of a different society that keeps Christ's laws, then things would change. I am in favour of people living in areas that represent them. For example, if you murder, you live where there are murderers. If you get killed by one of them, then tough. He who live by the sword dies by the sword.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I'm not blind. I'm fully aware of where the major problems lie.

really?

The overwhelming number of sexual assaults are committed by people the victims know and trust. A relationship is developed on some level so that trust is attained.

no problem.... but then we know that as we are talking about Cosby

It's committed at all levels of intimacy in relationships, from stranger rape to date rape to partner rape to marital rape. And in all scenarios, one constant is present: the perpetrator first dehumanizes the victim, and then decides to take what he or she wants from the victim with the assumption that it all is consensual - or that the victim was not clear with any boundaries.

I was assaulted, and I was also burglarized. Both scenarios resulted in feeling violated, but nobody has ever suggested that I was at fault in any way shape or form for the burglary. On the other hand, the word "fault" has come up more than enough for the circumstances leading up to the assault.

Did you have locks on your doors? I would presume so. I think if you did not, and you had a sign saying rob me, they would

Suggesting that a victim is at fault in any way hurts the efforts to reduce the number of sexual assaults. Please stop, and focus on what actually helps.

It is not the victims fault, but people can prevent themselves from being victims in the first place. Perhaps they should just stop in with their husband.... now that will go down well eh

 

[Robert.Evans]

You are not blind you are deaf. The crime is not the victim's fault. Ever never not ever. TRUSTING bad people is a fault.

hahaha...... quite so, quite so.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I have been raped. The rapes were by BAD people. I have never been raped by GOOD people. The lesson is (if you will allow it) STAY AWAY FROM BAD PEOPLE.

I am sorry to hear it.
I suppose the problem is that most make out they are good people in most cases. The only to alleviate that is to stay away from men as a woman in general without your partner there, which significantly alleviates the chances.

I suppose as with all things, we never think it will happen to us. It shows a poor soceity and government who are all to quick to control parts of your life, but not others. Back to freedom again I suppose

 

[Robert.Evans]

For the same reasons that battered men and battered women stay with their abusive spouses. Gaslighting, fraud, and belittling are ways that a person can be henpecked into nothing. It can happen violently in an acute manner, or it can happen over weeks at a time. Economic situations, where one partner can feel at the mercy financially, educationally, in employment, in housing, or in transportation...abuse of power can be wielded that can result in the systemic dehumanization of another.

That is why we need a structure in place which forms smaller groups where all look after one another and a keeping of Christ's laws.

Cosby, remember, fooled everybody into thinking he was a good guy. This has been going on for years and years, and yet now people are becoming aware. If WE didn't see it for 30 years, in spite of his record, how could any woman be faulted for trusting his motives?

true... but still should not be there without a husband. That is freedom again.

Again, please stop using the word "fault." People make bad judgements all the time. Justice is not found in seeking how the victim brought it on himself or herself. That's a social custom found in rape culture.

People can alleviate the circumstances. For example, I do not go into a field with a bull. The reason for that is obvious I think.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I can hear just fine, thank you.

Trusting bad people is not a crime. Stop finding ways to blame the victim.

Who said it was a crime.... it is not a crime but stupid! Hello, is there anyone there!!!

 

[Robert.Evans]

Let's make this two-fold. Shall we?

The lesson actually is, 1) Be prepared to defend oneself, and 2) Don't rape people.

Shall we make it threefold instead?
1) Be prepared to defend oneself, and
2) Don't rape people
3) don't put yourselves in situations where it might happen

 

[Robert.Evans]

I just want to avoid having anyone think you believe the victim is to blame. I know you're heart's in the right place, & I don't want others to misread you.

What about people (everybody) misreading me sir, will you protect me sir? Or do I have to a woman sir... haha