Bill Moyers on How the Class War in America Started

[Sunstone]

Bill Moyers: "Our Politicians Are Money Launderers in the Trafficking of Power and Policy" | Truthout

Moyers' article is rather long and his analysis of how the class war in America started begins in the second half of the article, when he discusses the Powell Memo. The whole article is worth reading, though.

Do you think Moyers is fundamentally correct in his analysis of how the class war in America started? Why or why not?

 

[doppelganger]

No. I disagree. The class war started because technology has allowed globalization to become economically feasible since the end of WWII, crushing the value of American labor in the age of commoditized humanity thus ending the power of unions to organize to protect the rights of people who earn their money by working rather than capital gains.


Where humans aren't worth anything, massive income disparities between capital and working people are inevitable.

 

[Sunstone]

The availability of technology allowing globalization may have made the class war feasible, but I think Moyers presents a good case that the Powell Memo played a crucial role in mobilizing the uber-rich and thus starting the war.

 

[doppelganger]

The availability of technology allowing globalization may have made the class war feasible, but I think Moyers presents a good case that the Powell Memo played a crucial role in mobilizing the uber-rich and thus starting the war.

They are doing what they would do without being told though, I think. This third world economic philosophy has been lurking around among John Birchers, Objectivists and old school conservatives for a long time - really since the robber barons had to make concessions to the American Progressive movement and the rise of organized labor in the late 1800s.

 

[Sunstone]

They are doing what they would do without being told though, I think. This third world economic philosophy has been lurking around among John Birchers, Objectivists and old school conservatives for a long time - really since the robber barons had to make concessions to the American Progressive movement and the rise of organized labor in the late 1800s.

I agree there would have been a tendency for the uber-rich to, even without the Powell Memo, head off in much the same direction they went after the Powell Memo. But I also think they might not have made precisely the same moves as they did had it not been for the Powell Memo. For instance, I don't think the idea would necessarily have occurred to them to invest so heavily in conservative think tanks, lobbyists, non-profit organizations, etc.

 

[doppelganger]

Well, I agree with that to some extent. A big part of the method comes from Powell. But I think an even bigger part comes from the work of Edward Bernays. Once mass media came along, what Bernays had devised as the way to use backdoors into a cultural psyche pretty well spelled the end of American republican democracy, though it took until the 80s to really perfect it.

 

[Sunstone]

Well, I agree with that to some extent. A big part of the method comes from Powell. But I think an even bigger part comes from the work of Edward Bernays. Once mass media came along, what Bernays had devised as the way to use backdoors into a cultural psyche pretty well spelled the end of American republican democracy, though it took until the 80s to really perfect it.

Bernays, more than anyone else, is responsible for changing America from a nation of citizens into a nation of consumers. At least that's my take on it.

 

[doppelganger]

Bernays, more than anyone else, is responsible for changing America from a nation of citizens into a nation of consumers. At least that's my take on it.

Yes, and that is the key part of isolating people to manipulate them using fear tactics. And in that light, the methodology goes back to the rise of capitalism and the earliest days of the Protestant reformation. Have you read Fromm's Escape From Freedom?

 

[Sunstone]

Yes, and that is the key part of isolating people to manipulate them using fear tactics. And in that light, the methodology goes back to the rise of capitalism and the earliest days of the Protestant reformation. Have you read Fromm's Escape From Freedom?

No. I've been wanting to read Fromm, but I never get near a bookstore these days.

 

[Panda]

Bill Moyers: "Our Politicians Are Money Launderers in the Trafficking of Power and Policy" | Truthout

Moyers' article is rather long and his analysis of how the class war in America started begins in the second half of the article, when he discusses the Powell Memo. The whole article is worth reading, though.

Do you think Moyers is fundamentally correct in his analysis of how the class war in America started? Why or why not?

Do you not think it goes much further back than that?

 

[Reverend Rick]

No. I disagree. The class war started because technology has allowed globalization to become economically feasible since the end of WWII, crushing the value of American labor in the age of commoditized humanity thus ending the power of unions to organize to protect the rights of people who earn their money by working rather than capital gains.


Where humans aren't worth anything, massive income disparities between capital and working people are inevitable.

I believe you are absolutely right Dopp. There are few exceptions however. Building trades did quite well right up to when the bubble burst in 2008. The reason was because you cannot import buildings.....yet.

The service industry especially anything medical could not be imported as well. The thing is, a Doctor cannot live high on the hog any more on just his or her salary.

They have a steady income, but their real gains have been made from investing their income, not living off of it. They are one of the few workers that still have an income high enough to live a decent life and still invest.

Just being a doctor is not enough to climb the social ladder however. I see the difference between the "haves" doctors and the "have nots" doctors. One rents office space from the other.

Most doctors do not have enough capital on their own, but they band together and start corporations.

Other sucessful people in the States I know are folks that came from India where they have amassed fortunes over seas and came here to invest where the competition has diminished.

The only folks that have been here in the States for generations that are climbing the social ladder are other service industries that are recession proof. Trash collecting is lucrative.

Churches have done well and are still building. They don't need financing.

For the most part, the old school idea of finding a good job and working for someone else is quickly becoming a pipe dream.

I predict the middle class to be gone in another generation. If anyone is middle class in the future, they will be looked upon as rich. It is already starting.

Congress could stop all these free trade agreements with a vote and a stroke of a pen. Our President wants to create jobs. He wanted us to have green jobs.

Solandra is the perfect example of why manufacturing jobs cannot function here any more.

My question is, why are the Liberals in favor of global trade? You would think that Conservatives would want to build factories if we did not compete globally.

Everyone in America would do well to insist that we become a protectionist country in the future.

 

[Alceste]

Rick, "Liberals" aren't in favor of free trade. It is a policy developed by and for the super-rich, most of whom are definitely not democratically inclined. What did you think of Moyers' speech?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Rick, "Liberals" aren't in favor of free trade.

Why did Clinton sign NAFTA then?

 

[Reverend Rick]

What did you think of Moyers' speech?

It was powerful, but only tells one side of the story.

I especially liked:

And so it came to pass; came to pass despite your heroic efforts and those of other kindred citizens; came to pass because those “men of action in the capitalist world” were not content with their wealth just to buy more homes, more cars, more planes, more vacations and more gizmos than anyone else. They were determined to buy more democracy than anyone else. And they succeeded beyond their own expectations. After their 40-year “veritable crusade” against our institutions, laws and regulations – against the ideas, norms and beliefs that helped to create America’s iconic middle class – the Gilded Age is back with a vengeance.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why did Clinton sign NAFTA then?

She said "liberals". Most democrats are right of center at best.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I believe you are absolutely right Dopp. There are few exceptions however. Building trades did quite well right up to when the bubble burst in 2008. The reason was because you cannot import buildings.....yet.

The service industry especially anything medical could not be imported as well. The thing is, a Doctor cannot live high on the hog any more on just his or her salary.

They have a steady income, but their real gains have been made from investing their income, not living off of it. They are one of the few workers that still have an income high enough to live a decent life and still invest.

Just being a doctor is not enough to climb the social ladder however. I see the difference between the "haves" doctors and the "have nots" doctors. One rents office space from the other.

Most doctors do not have enough capital on their own, but they band together and start corporations.

Other sucessful people in the States I know are folks that came from India where they have amassed fortunes over seas and came here to invest where the competition has diminished.

The only folks that have been here in the States for generations that are climbing the social ladder are other service industries that are recession proof. Trash collecting is lucrative.

Churches have done well and are still building. They don't need financing.

For the most part, the old school idea of finding a good job and working for someone else is quickly becoming a pipe dream.

I predict the middle class to be gone in another generation. If anyone is middle class in the future, they will be looked upon as rich. It is already starting.

Congress could stop all these free trade agreements with a vote and a stroke of a pen. Our President wants to create jobs. He wanted us to have green jobs.

Solandra is the perfect example of why manufacturing jobs cannot function here any more.

My question is, why are the Liberals in favor of global trade? You would think that Conservatives would want to build factories if we did not compete globally.

Everyone in America would do well to insist that we become a protectionist country in the future.

I think you could be a speech writer for Rick Perry. Wait, are you Rick Perry?
[youtube]7M4gz97Y9W8[/youtube]
Perry's Cornerstone Speech Highlights - YouTube

 

[Alceste]

Why did Clinton sign NAFTA then?

Neo-liberals are about as liberal as neo-conservatives are conservative.

 

[Sunstone]

I think of Clinton as owned by the corporations and Wall Street. Same as Obama.

 

[Alceste]

I think of Clinton as owned by the corporations and Wall Street. Same as Obama.

That's the trouble. The Republicans work for oil interests and weapons manufacturers while the Democrats work for the finance industry. Nobody works for Americans except maybe Nader, but we know how popular he is...

 

[Jeremy Mason]

"it is well enough that the people of this nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.".
Henry Ford

I'm wondering if, We the American people, are apt enough to face the daunting challenges that face us. I have a feeling that we lack the intestinal fortitude and more importantly, the unity that would be required to demand from our politicians the necessary resistance to thwart the evil corporatocracy.