Billions of $ paid and soldier killed for nothing!

[Godobeyer]

Hello everyone

Billions of $ paid and soldiers killed for nothing!

As it's known USA and UK invade Iraq because of lie ,that Iraq had nukes.
and remove dictaric regime (as they said)

and result civil war in Iraq,and terrorism, that's what Iraqis and world benefits from that war in 2003.

After paying billions of dollars and many soldiers killed or injured,
my question what USA and UK, what is the benefits ?

-Why don't UK/USA courts don't judge/punish whom responsible for lost souls and billions for nothing ?

 

[LuisDantas]

After paying billions of dollars and many soldiers killed or injured,
my question what USA and UK, what is the benefits ?

From GWB/the GOP's perspective, it was a good distraction from their policies and a convenient "foreign enemy" to galvanize popular support for quite a few years.

For Arab communities, it was something of a gift in disguise. It became a wake up call for many people to learn how complex the Middle East situation is.

Shia Iraqis gained a lot of space previously denied them.

The most daring among Saddam's Baathist supporters may have enjoyed the opportunity and "encouragement" to found ISIS.

Fox News and some of the wackiest GOP members may have enjoyed the circus.

And, I suppose, the USA's enemies must have enjoyed witnessing its moral decadence running full on. Iran, for instance, now has a close ally in Iraq.



No, it was not even remotely worth it.

-Why don't UK/USA courts don't judge/punish whom responsible for lost souls and billions for nothing ?

Mostly because they are not fully accepting of the extent of their mistakes, I must assume.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

From GWB/the GOP's perspective, it was a good distraction from their policies and a convenient "foreign enemy" to galvanize popular support for quite a few years.

For Arab communities, it was something of a gift in disguise. It became a wake up call for many people to learn how complex the Middle East situation is.

Shia Iraqis gained a lot of space previously denied them.

The most daring among Saddam's Baathist supporters may have enjoyed the opportunity and "encouragement" to found ISIS.

Fox News and some of the wackiest GOP members may have enjoyed the circus.

And, I suppose, the USA's enemies must have enjoyed witnessing its moral decadence running full on. Iran, for instance, now has a close ally in Iraq.



No, it was not even remotely worth it.



Mostly because they are not fully accepting of the extent of their mistakes, I must assume.

Many Americans (and I would assume, citizens of the UK, too) did not support the war, nor the ensuing policies, and dislike the likelihood of similar policies of interference and the supplying of weapons continuing in the future. Unfortunately, we seem to keep electing people who perpetuate the policies.

 

[columbus]

-Why don't UK/USA courts don't judge/punish whom responsible for lost souls and billions for nothing ?

Believe me, this still makes me extremely angry! I want Cheney and co. in front of a court. Bush as well, although I think he was more of the useful idiot type than anyone important.
It especially makes me angry to hear Republicans calling for yet another investigation into Benghazi. But that is another issue, sort of.

I had no trouble finding out what the invasion was about and would result in. I didn't need the CIA or spy satellites. I just talked to intelligent and informed Muslim people who knew the middle east. They didn't agree about everything. But a few things became clear easily enough.
1) Saddam Hussein did not have any more WMDs.
2) The Iraqis weren't interested in a liberal democratic republic. But they were totally primed for a bloody civil war.
3) The toppling of Saddam Hussein, without replacing him with another dictator, would result in a hugely violent Islamic group. Daesh, although they didn't predict the actual name.

I marched in the street, organized "letters to your senator" campaigns, wrote scathing letters to the editor myself, fought with my family and pretty much anybody else who said something stupid like "Freedom isn't Free".

I still get upset when I think about it.
Tom

 

[David1967]

Hello everyone

Billions of $ paid and soldiers killed for nothing!

As it's known USA and UK invade Iraq because of lie ,that Iraq had nukes.
and remove dictaric regime (as they said)

and result civil war in Iraq,and terrorism, that's what Iraqis and world benefits from that war in 2003.

After paying billions of dollars and many soldiers killed or injured,
my question what USA and UK, what is the benefits ?

-Why don't UK/USA courts don't judge/punish whom responsible for lost souls and billions for nothing ?

Truth is, we have nothing positive to show for our involvement in Iraq. What we do have is an unstable Iraq in worse shape than when we got there. A huge war debt. ISIS. And worse , thousands of dead Iraqi , American and others.

 

[LuisDantas]

To say nothing of the damage on the political image of the USA.

 

[David1967]

Believe me, this still makes me extremely angry! I want Cheney and co. in front of a court. Bush as well, although I think he was more of the useful idiot type than anyone important.
It especially makes me angry to hear Republicans calling for yet another investigation into Benghazi. But that is another issue, sort of.

I had no trouble finding out what the invasion was about and would result in. I didn't need the CIA or spy satellites. I just talked to intelligent and informed Muslim people who knew the middle east. They didn't agree about everything. But a few things became clear easily enough.
1) Saddam Hussein did not have any more WMDs.
2) The Iraqis weren't interested in a liberal democratic republic. But they were totally primed for a bloody civil war.
3) The toppling of Saddam Hussein, without replacing him with another dictator, would result in a hugely violent Islamic group. Daesh, although they didn't predict the actual name.

I marched in the street, organized "letters to your senator" campaigns, wrote scathing letters to the editor myself, fought with my family and pretty much anybody else who said something stupid like "Freedom isn't Free".

I still get upset when I think about it.
Tom

We were definitely fed a big pile of propaganda weren't we. What a waste.

 

[columbus]

We were definitely fed a big pile of propaganda weren't we. What a waste.

It was not just a big pile of propoganda. It was a crime against humanity of epic proportions.
My own country caused more death and destruction than ISIS! And I had to pay for it!
Tom

 

[David1967]

It was not just a big pile of propoganda. It was a crime against humanity of epic proportions.
My own country caused more death and destruction than ISIS! And I had to pay for it!
Tom

Yes we did. And unfortunately it looks like we will be for the foreseeable future.

 

[Godobeyer]

Profited the corporation's which control the puppet candidates.
Didn't help the government monetarily, but there was still monetary influence and benefit from the decision.


Political and economic elites may as well be completely above the law, that's how the system was designed.

Puppet condidates of Iraq, they following Iran now !

USA won nothing from Iraq war ,except this

 

[Godobeyer]

Believe me, this still makes me extremely angry! I want Cheney and co. in front of a court. Bush as well, although I think he was more of the useful idiot type than anyone important.
It especially makes me angry to hear Republicans calling for yet another investigation into Benghazi. But that is another issue, sort of.

I had no trouble finding out what the invasion was about and would result in. I didn't need the CIA or spy satellites. I just talked to intelligent and informed Muslim people who knew the middle east. They didn't agree about everything. But a few things became clear easily enough.
1) Saddam Hussein did not have any more WMDs.
2) The Iraqis weren't interested in a liberal democratic republic. But they were totally primed for a bloody civil war.
3) The toppling of Saddam Hussein, without replacing him with another dictator, would result in a hugely violent Islamic group. Daesh, although they didn't predict the actual name.

I marched in the street, organized "letters to your senator" campaigns, wrote scathing letters to the editor myself, fought with my family and pretty much anybody else who said something stupid like "Freedom isn't Free".

I still get upset when I think about it.
Tom

Thanks Tom for this value respond !

USA need to follow Algerian new decision/law, "Algerian forces never across the border ,whatever the case"

- it's sounds crazy that lot of money and soul gone for nothing .

- Do you think some politic lobbies and lobby of guns/weapons had hand in involve in war (push toward wars) ? I personaly think yes.

I can't imagine that my country paid money and souls to make democraty in other country lol

 

[Godobeyer]

Truth is, we have nothing positive to show for our involvement in Iraq. What we do have is an unstable Iraq in worse shape than when we got there. A huge war debt. ISIS. And worse , thousands of dead Iraqi , American and others.

But for my opinion the responsible should paid, I can't imagine my kid or my brother die cos of lie or nothing.

in UK they accuse Blair for that.

 

[LuisDantas]

Thanks Tom for this value respond !

USA need to follow Algerian new decision/law, "Algerian forces never across the border ,whatever the case"

- it's sounds crazy that lot of money and soul gone for nothing .

I so agree!

- Do you think some politic lobbies and lobby of guns/weapons had hand in involve in war (push toward wars) ? I personaly think yes.

Decades ago, Eisenhower predicted that the industrial-military complex would grow too big to be challenged. He sure seems to have been accurate in that prediction.

As I hear it, they make sure to spread its installations evenly among most or all of the 50 states so that they are significant employers in all of them, and therefore enjoy congressional support everywhere. Makes for a powerful lobby.

But really, the decisive factor should be the decision of Americans to either accept or fully reject that mirage of the USA as spearheaders of "wars for freedom" (as if the idea could even make any sense).

To this day I have to hear people in these very forums attempting to convince me that the atomic bomb somehow saved lives. Yeah, right...

I can't imagine that my country paid money and souls to make democraty in other country lol

That is actually a worthy goal, at least in paper... except that democracy can only be sustained by the continued will of the people.

GWB supposedly was naive enough to believe that democracy was some sort of default state of humanity once tyrants were put down. It is not. It is a continued, maintained conquest.

But for my opinion the responsible should paid, I can't imagine my kid or my brother die cos of lie or nothing.

in UK they accuse Blair for that.

These words of yours are very reasonable. I am sure that many Americans agree with them even if they dearly hoped not to.

 

[Lyndon]

Meanwhile, the former Prime Minister in the early throes of Alzheimer's has this to say; "World better off because of Iraq war."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36733979

 

[suncowiam]

Thanks Tom for this value respond !

USA need to follow Algerian new decision/law, "Algerian forces never across the border ,whatever the case"

- it's sounds crazy that lot of money and soul gone for nothing .

- Do you think some politic lobbies and lobby of guns/weapons had hand in involve in war (push toward wars) ? I personaly think yes.

I can't imagine that my country paid money and souls to make democraty in other country lol

If Algeria was invaded and started losing the war, who do you think your leaders will call?

Not the ghost busters for sure.

If America had a policy of never crossing its own borders, could one stipulate what would happen in WW2?

With that said, I completely agree that the Iraqi war was based on propaganda or bad intel. Either way, some one should be held accountable. Now if we free North Korea from that tyrant, I think most if not all in the free world wouldn't disagree with this. Not too mention, North Korea is developing an arsenal of long range nuclear weapons. Sure its failing now, but its still continuing the process so its only a matter of time.

 

[Godobeyer]

If Algeria was invaded and started losing the war, who do you think your leaders will call?

Not the ghost busters for sure.

If America had a policy of never crossing its own borders, could one stipulate what would happen in WW2?

With that said, I completely agree that the Iraqi war was based on propaganda or bad intel. Either way, some one should be held accountable. Now if we free North Korea from that tyrant, I think most if not all in the free world wouldn't disagree with this. Not too mention, North Korea is developing an arsenal of long range nuclear weapons. Sure its failing now, but its still continuing the process so its only a matter of time.

1- there will be resistence of course.

I suppose the question is better to insert Germany instead of America.

WW2 is other case,after USA attacked by Japan,so USA decide to enter to the war.

I believe USA won nothing in Iraq war, on contrary USA lost soldiers and lot of money.


For North Korea USA decide to protect SK and Japan, maybe they paying USA for that.

 

[suncowiam]

@Godobeyer

"I suppose the question is better to insert Germany instead of America."
- Not sure what you mean.

"WW2 is other case,after USA attacked by Japan,so USA decide to enter to the war."
- USA was attacked by Japan, but did it have to send its troop to Europe and basically help in the Eastern front? Many US lives died in this process.

"I believe USA won nothing in Iraq war, on contrary USA lost soldiers and lot of money."
- Agreed

"For North Korea USA decide to protect SK and Japan, maybe they paying USA for that."
- USA's core social policies are Freedom and Democracy. It's economic policy is Capitalism. I admit to being very biased here but I completely agree with all the policies especially the social ones. I would advocate this to others so I see it as a responsibility of higher powers to do the same, whether its the US or other nations.

You can point to the atrocities done by the US. I would agree with you on many topics, but US has processes in place to better itself and ensure the same atrocities do not happen again. This is why you would hear its own citizens agree with some of your points like some here has already done. This type of freedom to think extends all the way up to our leaders.

You're expecting US to be perfect but then do you expect that of all the other countries to be as perfect? I'm just saying to bring all the context when you single out and highlight bad occurrences.

I can go through each country and detail to you a piece of history that could be just as bad as which you're pointing out.

 

[Godobeyer]

"I suppose the question is better to insert Germany instead of America."
- Not sure what you mean.

I meant this :
If Germany/Japan had a policy of never crossing its own borders, could one stipulate what would happen in WW2?

- USA was attacked by Japan, but did it have to send its troop to Europe and basically help in the Eastern front? Many US lives died in this process.

I think Japan was allie to Germany and Italy ?
so USA decide to enter against that allie.

"I believe USA won nothing in Iraq war, on contrary USA lost soldiers and lot of money."
- Agreed

- USA's core social policies are Freedom and Democracy. It's economic policy is Capitalism. I admit to being very biased here but I completely agree with all the policies especially the social ones. I would advocate this to others so I see it as a responsibility of higher powers to do the same, whether its the US or other nations.

btw for economy I cant imagine my country had $17000 debt.
I imagine that all world will attack Algeria to get their money

You can point to the atrocities done by the US. I would agree with you on many topics, but US has processes in place to better itself and ensure the same atrocities do not happen again. This is why you would hear its own citizens agree with some of your points like some here has already done. This type of freedom to think extends all the way up to our leaders.

You're expecting US to be perfect but then do you expect that of all the other countries to be as perfect? I'm just saying to bring all the context when you single out and highlight bad occurrences.

I can go through each country and detail to you a piece of history that could be just as bad as which you're pointing out.

recently

Uk investigation blame Tony Blair for Iraq war, he said" I am sorry" !

What that cost that word to victime families of UK or USA and Iraq?!![/QUOTE]

 

[Revoltingest]

From GWB/the GOP's perspective, it was a good distraction from their policies and a convenient "foreign enemy" to galvanize popular support for quite a few years.

What explains Obama's continuing the same policies?
And why did Democrats re-elect him for doing this?

 

[suncowiam]

I meant this :
If Germany/Japan had a policy of never crossing its own borders, could one stipulate what would happen in WW2?

I think Japan was allie to Germany and Italy ?
so USA decide to enter against that allie.

"I believe USA won nothing in Iraq war, on contrary USA lost soldiers and lot of money."
- Agreed


btw for economy I cant imagine my country had $17000 debt.
I imagine that all world will attack Algeria to get their money

recently

Uk investigation blame Tony Blair for Iraq war, he said" I am sorry" !

What that cost that word to victime families of UK or USA and Iraq?!!

I agree with all your points concerning Iraq. Not arguing there but I'm suggesting to not let that generalize all of the US with current and future policies. There are many here very skeptical of any claims to war and have been voting against pro-war leaders.

Concerning the borders point. What about North Korea? I think we can all agree that the civilians within those borders are needlessly suffering. Do we as a community of nations continue to allow that?