Biogeography – strong evidence for evolution

[fantome profane]

[FONT=&quot][youtube]08HBNdAJx_M[/youtube]
Biogeography: Evidence for Evolution [/FONT]

Biogeography as Evidence of Evolution

Evidence for Evolution

This thread is to debate/discuss the concept of biogeography as evidence for evolution. For those who are not familiar with the concept biogeography refers to the geographical distribution of flora and fauna. This includes both living and extinct species of plants and animals found in the fossil record (paleo-biogeography).

Perhaps the most obvious example of this is the marsupial life found in Australia. We find on the Australian continent (either living or recently extinct) marsupial versions of placental mammals that are found in other places. There are (or in some cases were) marsupial mice, marsupial wolves, marsupial cats and even marsupial flying squirrels. And of course there are also different species of kangaroos that are unique to that continent.

Now the question is why are all these marsupial species found in Australia and not in other places in the world? And why are there marsupial versions of placental mammals? It is not as though placental mammals would not thrive in Australia, many placental mammals have been introduced in recent years have thrived there (much to the annoyance of Australians). So why?

The theory of evolution provides an answer. We find so many marsupials in Australia because they evolved from a common marsupial ancestor which migrated there from North America. We can predict were we will find fossils of marsupials, which geological layer we will find them (in a sense predict when we will find them). We can trace both their evolution and their migration through geological time.

What would be the alternative hypothesis? Did the “creator” get over to Australia and then forget how to make a mouse? Or were there perhaps two different “creators”.

Evolution provides similar explanations for the biogeographical distribution of new world monkeys and old world monkeys. Darwin himself made the prediction that we would find ancestors of the hominid line in Africa. We find fossil evidence exactly were we expect to find it according to the theory of evolution. How do creationists explain this?

 

[painted wolf]

Marsupials still hang on in South America ... and their fossils are also found in Antarctica. The North American Opossum is actually a migrant from South America that moved north during the great faunal interchange of the ice age.

The first "horse" Hyracotherium is also found in Europe and Asia but the horse lineage dies off in both Asia and Europe over time... Yes, true horses evolved in North America but there was a pretty successful lineage of browsing horses in Eurasia for many millions of years before then. (they died out in the Miocene)

There are proto-whales from North America... such as Georgiacetus and the first remains of Basilosaurus were found in Louisiana. True the oldest examples are from the area around Pakistan, but they spread out rapidly from there.

Just a couple of points... otherwise it's not half bad.

wa:do

ps. there are native species of placental mice in Australia.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Seriously, whats the point. The only people that deny evolution in this day and age are impervious to all forms of evidence.

 

[painted wolf]

Seriously, whats the point. The only people that deny evolution in this day and age are impervious to all forms of evidence.

Most... but not all. (but yeah, most)

For me, I just want people who discuss evolution on forums like this one, to have the right information. Nothing makes it harder to educate people on evolution than the spreading of misinformation (even good intentioned, honest-mistake, misinformation)

wa:do

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Thats cool. The thing is the only people that question it already have an agenda against it. Evolution is as credible as any other science.

In all of my years doing this I have never seen a YECer say "Wow, you know what, you're right!"

 

[Jose Fly]

Thats cool. The thing is the only people that question it already have an agenda against it. Evolution is as credible as any other science.

In all of my years doing this I have never seen a YECer say "Wow, you know what, you're right!"

I don't think I've hardly ever seen anyone say that in an internet debate forum.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In all of my years doing this I have never seen a YECer say "Wow, you know what, you're right!"

You probably won't. I think it's much more likely that when doubt arises, they either drop the matter, or take up the discussion on some other forum, but not as a Young Earth Creationist.

It's one thing to realize to yourself that you've been wrong. It's a whole other thing to publicly admit that the other person you've been zealously debating was right all along. It means seriously losing face, and most people go to great lengths to avoid losing face.

 

[fantome profane]

From Jerry Coyne’s “Why Evolution is True”

“The biogeographic evidence for evolution is now so powerful that I have never seen a creationists book, article, or lecture that has tried to refute it. Creationists simply pretend the evidence doesn’t exist.”

It seems that no creationist on this board has any response to the biogeographic evidence. Does anyone know of any creationist responses?

 

[tumbleweed41]

It seems that no creationist on this board has any response to the biogeographic evidence. Does anyone know of any creationist responses?

God did it.:run:

 

[Jose Fly]

From Jerry Coyne’s “Why Evolution is True”
It seems that no creationist on this board has any response to the biogeographic evidence. Does anyone know of any creationist responses?

It's all a hoax, the product of fallible men, the product of an atheistic agenda, the product of communists who've infiltrated science, the product of the conspiracy to push us into the new world order, the product of god-hating satanists, the product of satan himself...

 

[ForgotMyOrange]

It seems that no creationist on this board has any response to the biogeographic evidence. Does anyone know of any creationist responses?

I'm not allowed to post URL's yet but *link removed* is a thorough creationist response.

 

[rusra02]

From Jerry Coyne’s “Why Evolution is True”

Quote:
“The biogeographic evidence for evolution is now so powerful that I have never seen a creationists book, article, or lecture that has tried to refute it. Creationists simply pretend the evidence doesn’t exist.”

From Jerry Coyne’s “Why Evolution is True”
It seems that no creationist on this board has any response to the biogeographic evidence. Does anyone know of any creationist responses?

I'm sorry but I believe the evolutionists are being less than honest, again. A simple google search will turn up numerous responses to this 'evidence', both for and against. It seems systemic with evolutionists to make bold claims for what are essentially weak arguments. There are unique life forms on every continent. So claims that biogeography has not been refuted publicly are simply dishonest.

 

[LuisDantas]

We do live in an interesting time, that is for sure.

A time when fringe groups such as creationists have such power that they seem to believe to actually be in the right, or at least to have a chance at "winning". Quite a few seem to even believe that there is dishonesty and lies fueling the evolutionist claims. Talk about irony.

Sometimes I wonder if it is not a mistake to even have a debate area for evolution vs creationism. That encourages a mistaken impression that there is a significant controversy "raging on".

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

To maintain their position a "Creationists" needs to be able to disregard evidence.
There is absolutely no point in "Feeding" them arguments based on evidence.

 

[rusra02]

We do live in an interesting time, that is for sure.

A time when fringe groups such as creationists have such power that they seem to believe to actually be in the right, or at least to have a chance at "winning". Quite a few seem to even believe that there is dishonesty and lies fueling the evolutionist claims. Talk about irony.

Sometimes I wonder if it is not a mistake to even have a debate area for evolution vs creationism. That encourages a mistaken impression that there is a significant controversy "raging on".

Right. Just ignore the forest fire, and it will go out.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I'm sorry but I believe the evolutionists are being less than honest, again. A simple google search will turn up numerous responses to this 'evidence', both for and against. It seems systemic with evolutionists to make bold claims for what are essentially weak arguments. There are unique life forms on every continent. So claims that biogeography has not been refuted publicly are simply dishonest.

You mean, by constructing strawmen or by wildly misinterpreting the meaning of basic, scientific terminology, which you did in another thread just minutes ago?

 

[LuisDantas]

To maintain their position a "Creationists" needs to be able to disregard evidence.
There is absolutely no point in "Feeding" them arguments based on evidence.

I disagree. Their movement has reached such numbers that quite a few truly know no better. Some will be receptive to evidence given the proper circunstances.

Granted, it is an uphill struggle seeing how conditioned and scared they usually are. But there will be some.

 

[LuisDantas]

Right. Just ignore the forest fire, and it will go out.

What is that supposed to mean? I have no idea.

 

[mycorrhiza]

Right. Just ignore the forest fire, and it will go out.

No matter how much people want there to be a forest fire, their matches seem to lack igniting material.

 

[LuisDantas]

Oh. So the "forest fire" is supposed to be the Creationists' struggle to get rid of what is known about biological Evolution?

Best of luck, Rusra. You'll need it.