Blessing on a school

[Pah]

Religious Groups' Blessing of Public School in Ohio Draws ACLU Protest
The Columbus Dispatch, Ohio
Matt Zapotosky
August 28, 2006

http://www.constitutioncenter.org/e...urrentEvents/ConstitutionNewswire/16648.shtml

Aug. 28--About 180 members of four local churches surrounded a public middle school yesterday to bless the building and those who use it, despite objections from the American Civil Liberties Union about the constitutionally mandated separation of church and state.

Led by a minister .... they asked the "great divine one, creator of us all" to bless each "student ... teacher, staff and administrator" entering the building.

I'm going to, a surprise to me, disagree with the ACLU on the basis that school was not in session.

But I also have to smile at the thought that perhaps the blessing was to keep evolution, comprhensive sex education, and secularism from the school classrooms and fill those rooms with prayer and bible study.

 

[Quiddity]

Whatever the blessing was for, what harm if any is perceived?

 

[YamiB.]

Yeah, I think I'll have to say that as long as the school wasn't in session that it was ok. One of the few times I've found myself to disagree with the ACLU.

 

[fantome profane]

I also usually find myself supporting separation of church and state causes, but in this case I think the ACLU is wrong. I think the ACLU does a lot of good work, but this is the kind of case that gives them a bad name.

 

[YamiB.]

I'll admit that I didn't think that I didn't read the article at first. After just looking at it, it seems like the person from the ACLU took a less severe stance than it seemed. He said that he didn't think it could be considered Constitutional, but there were plenty of worse things that could be done.

What bothered me most in the whole incident was the attitude mentioned of some people present who thought there should not be a seperation of church and state.

 

[retrorich]

Religious Groups' Blessing of Public School in Ohio Draws ACLU Protest
The Columbus Dispatch, Ohio
Matt Zapotosky
August 28, 2006

http://www.constitutioncenter.org/education/TeachingwithCurrentEvents/ConstitutionNewswire/16648.shtml
I'm going to, a surprise to me, disagree with the ACLU on the basis that school was not in session.

But I also have to smile at the thought that perhaps the blessing was to keep evolution, comprhensive sex education, and secularism from the school classrooms and fill those rooms with prayer and bible study.

IMO, whether the school was in session or not is irrelevant. Tax payer's money was already being spent on it, so a religious "blessing" was not approriate.

 

[Malkav's Knight]

The ACLU should have not even been concerned with the event..if a bunch of religos want to waste their time by gathering in front of a building to bless it, let them. As long as they do not enter the building during school time to do it, then there should be no problem. I understand the ACLUs point of seperation of church and state, which I firmly believe should be strengthened, regarding the event. However, since school was not in session then there is no concern IMO. Its not like im gonna strool down to an empty church and start reading the Constitution in front of it, it would be a waste of my time.

 

[nutshell]

The separation of Church and State isn't even an issue here. The ACLU is stretching.

 

[Malkav's Knight]

The separation of Church and State isn't even an issue here. The ACLU is stretching.

Your right..its not. The problem with the ACLUs point on seperation is that they dont want Church anywhere near public schools. And my view has always been that as long as the church stays outside public school property, then they can do whatever they want. Its when they try to go into schools is when it becomes a problem.

 

[nutshell]

Your right..its not. The problem with the ACLUs point on seperation is that they dont want Church anywhere near public schools. And my view has always been that as long as the church stays outside public school property, then they can do whatever they want. Its when they try to go into schools is when it becomes a problem.

Can you define "in" for me.

The reason I ask is because every Sunday Church's are setting up in high-school auditoriums and gyms to hold their service. Does the "in" you're referring to cover this or just the party about prayer and God in school during regular school hours?

 

[Malkav's Knight]

Can you define "in" for me.

The reason I ask is because every Sunday Church's are setting up in high-school auditoriums and gyms to hold their service. Does the "in" you're referring to cover this or just the party about prayer and God in school during regular school hours?

The "in" I refer to is that: no religious event of any kind nor any religious practice should be held on public school grounds. if what you are saying about these "Sunday Church's" is true, then the ACLU should set in on that subject.

 

[Pah]

The "in" I refer to is that: no religious event of any kind nor any religious practice should be held on public school grounds. if what you are saying about these "Sunday Church's" is true, then the ACLU should set in on that subject.

I disagree! Perhaps you know of my stances against the intrusion of religion into government affairs, but in this case any federal prpoerty open to the general public for any type of event should be allowed as long as the rules for the event are the same as any other group.

 

[nutshell]

The "in" I refer to is that: no religious event of any kind nor any religious practice should be held on public school grounds. if what you are saying about these "Sunday Church's" is true, then the ACLU should set in on that subject.

Why do you think the ACLU hasn't gone after these churches? In every city I go to now I see advertisements for these. It is definitly widespread, IMO.

Outside of school hours, does the "school" become just another public building for use by organizations seeking to use them? Does the type of organization matter? Are Boy Scouts OK? Sports teams? Everyone except religion?

Personally, it doesn't sit well with me either and I am the church-going type.

 

[nutshell]

I disagree! Perhaps you know of my stances against the intrusion of religion into government affairs, but in this case any federal prpoerty open to the general public for any type of event should be allowed as long as the rules for the event are the same as any other group.

I do agree with you, but I fear that while traditional Christian churches get to use the gymnasium, an application for use by the League of Lucifer's Lovers would be soundly denied.

How do we fix this discrepancy?

 

[Pah]

I do agree with you, but I fear that while traditional Christian churches get to use the gymnasium, an application for use by the League of Lucifer's Lovers would be soundly denied.

How do we fix this discrepancy?

Call the ACLU

 

[Malkav's Knight]

I disagree! Perhaps you know of my stances against the intrusion of religion into government affairs, but in this case any federal prpoerty open to the general public for any type of event should be allowed as long as the rules for the event are the same as any other group.

The problem is that even though its is federal property open to the general public when not during school ours, the money for these schools comes from tax payers in the city. Now the question you have to ask is should churches (which ARE tax exempt) be able to benefit by using public tax-payed facilities liek schools?

 

[BFD_Zayl]

well up here "in" is anywhere on the schools side of the sidewalk, literally once you cross the campus border, you can stand on the other side of the sidewalk with a bunch of huge friggin signs and no one can do a thing. but once you cross that border they can call the cops after a warning. and i have no issue with the...eh...issue. the ACLU might have made a mistake here, im not sure.

 

[Pah]

The problem is that even though its is federal property open to the general public when not during school ours, the money for these schools comes from tax payers in the city. Now the question you have to ask is should churches (which ARE tax exempt) be able to benefit by using public tax-payed facilities liek schools?

If the rules require it they would have to pay for custodial maintainence. If securtiy is asked for, they would pay for the off duty cops. No other group is required to offset the costs for the physical plant

I see this blessing as very simular to a ribbon cutting ceremony or a hosting of teachers in the new school year by the PTA. I would even approve of them walking the corridors to bless the building

 

[Malkav's Knight]

well up here "in" is anywhere on the schools side of the sidewalk, literally once you cross the campus border, you can stand on the other side of the sidewalk with a bunch of huge friggin signs and no one can do a thing. but once you cross that border they can call the cops after a warning. and i have no issue with the...eh...issue. the ACLU might have made a mistake here, im not sure.

Thats what most of us are in agreement with including me. The ACLU had no reason to get involved in this case as long as the Churchies stayed off school grounds.

 

[Booko]

I'm going to, a surprise to me, disagree with the ACLU on the basis that school was not in session.

Yes, I think I have to disagree with this too. People come onto school grounds all the time when it's in session. They play on the playground, shoot hoops, or fly kites, whatever.

I'm at a loss to see how this event interfered with anyone in any way.

If I have a concern, it's this:

Several participants said yesterday they did not think the ceremony, which lasted less than a half-hour, violated the separation of church and state, and some said they didn't think church and state should be separated anyway.

But ignorance of contitutional matters and our history is nothing one can or should take to court.