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Book club

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram KT ji :namaste

She is the Bhuvan invoked in Aum-Bhur-Bhuvah-Svah.
jai jai :namaste

bhurvana as in causing to exist , both in the sence of this earth planet and in its inhabitants it is the embodiment of spititual energy , but also as the dstroyer of suffering . ...

AUM - Almighty God
BHOOR - Embodiment of vital or spiritual energy, BHUVAHA - Destroyer of suffering, SWAHA - Embodiment of Happiness, TAT - That (indicating God)
SAVITUR - Bright, Luminous, like sun, VARENYAM - Supreme, Best
BHARGO - Destroyer of Sins,DEVASYA - Divine, DHEEMAHI - May receive
DHEEYO - Intellect, YO - Who, NAH - Our, PRACHODAYAT - May inspire


Personally, to me, I dont think in terms of "Shakti", "active" etc, to me She is the passive principle, and only for the sake of Her children does She does something.
but prabhu ji ...you are here , therefore you are forgeting the creation around you ,


Kali, Lakshmi, Saraswati, Maheshawari, or other Devis- their worship can be in fact very frustrating, so to say, for lack of "response".
like all good mothers she gives more than we realise , we are here purely by her mercy , and her mercy nurtures and guides us even when we do not realise it , exept one day that luminosity will grant us the interlect to appreciate , ...then we will fall at her feet and ask nothing except that she accept our humble praise .
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
AUM - Almighty God
BHOOR - Embodiment of vital or spiritual energy, BHUVAHA - Destroyer of suffering, SWAHA - Embodiment of Happiness, TAT - That (indicating God)
SAVITUR - Bright, Luminous, like sun, VARENYAM - Supreme, Best
BHARGO - Destroyer of Sins,DEVASYA - Divine, DHEEMAHI - May receive
DHEEYO - Intellect, YO - Who, NAH - Our, PRACHODAYAT - May inspire

Just one correction:

"Devasya" is a preposition. So, it's talking about Savitur (solar deity; "of [that] God"). The best translation that I have ever encountered is the literal translation of verse 10, of hymn 62, by Griffith:

"May we attain that radiance of Savitur the God; may he stimulate our prayers."

It keeps in line with Sayanacharya's commentary and stays true to the intention of the hymn's author.

A lot of people don't know it, but verse 10 isn't the full "Gayatri Mantra", because it's only 1/3 of the whole thing:

tát savitúr váreṇiyam bhárgo devásya dhīmahi dhíyo yó naḥ pracodáyāt

devásya savitúr vayáṃ vājayántaḥ púraṃdhiyā bhágasya rātím īmahe

deváṃ náraḥ savitā́raṃ víprā yajñaíḥ suvr̥ktíbhiḥ namasyánti dhiyéṣitā́ḥ

Verses 10-12 are dedicated to the solar deity known as Savitur, as per the "author" Gathina-ji.
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram MV ji :namaste

मैत्रावरुणिः;3592616 said:
Just one correction:

jai jai , my appologies it was not my translation I lazily pasted the simplest translation for the benifit of anyone reading who was not familiar with what we were discussing ....

"Devasya" is a preposition. So, it's talking about Savitur (solar deity; "of [that] God"). The best translation that I have ever encountered is the literal translation of verse 10, of hymn 62, by Griffith:

"May we attain that radiance of Savitur the God; may he stimulate our prayers."

It keeps in line with Sayanacharya's commentary and stays true to the intention of the hymn's author.

A lot of people don't know it, but verse 10 isn't the full "Gayatri Mantra", because it's only 1/3 of the whole thing:

tát savitúr váreṇiyam bhárgo devásya dhīmahi dhíyo yó naḥ pracodáyāt

devásya savitúr vayáṃ vājayántaḥ púraṃdhiyā bhágasya rātím īmahe

deváṃ náraḥ savitā́raṃ víprā yajñaíḥ suvr̥ktíbhiḥ namasyánti dhiyéṣitā́ḥ

Verses 10-12 are dedicated to the solar deity known as Savitur, as per the "author" Gathina-ji.
jai jai , ...and as it should be :namaste

correct me if I am wrong .... Savitr is the force, power and inteligence behind the sun and more than surya himself .

The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvan, and Vivasvan instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Iksvaku.......Bhagavad gita ..ch 4 ...v 1

 
correct me if I am wrong .... Savitr is the force, power and inteligence behind the sun and more than surya himself.
Correctly spoken, devi ji!
Savitr is the presiding god of Bhuvan/ Antariksha, hence non-different from His female form, MAhi (Maheshwari) imo, or even GAyatri.
As MV ji has pointed out, Gayatri Mantra has much more to it (see this thread), it is no ordinary mantra, even by the Vedic standards. This is a fascinating area of present and future activity/ research in Hinduism (in India this mantra is being chanted by the masses in record evermore increased numbers).

The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvan, and Vivasvan instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Iksvaku.......Bhagavad gita ..ch 4 ...v 1

Vivasvan is somewhat different from Savitr.

RV 03-038.8

"Let no one here debar me from enjoying the golden
light which Savitar diffuses.
He covers both all-fostering worlds (svah, bhuh) with praises
even as a woman cherishes her children."
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
The thing about BG Ch.4.V.1 is that it is theologically contesting with the Gayatri Mantra as well as much of the Rig Veda. Because, Vishnu or Krishna wasn't the one who "instructed" anything to anyone, as per the Rig Veda. Heck, it even goes against not only R.V.3.38.8, but against all of R.V.3.59.
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram KT ji :namaste

Vivasvan is somewhat different from Savitr.

RV 03-038.8

"Let no one here debar me from enjoying the golden
light which Savitar diffuses.
He covers both all-fostering worlds (svah, bhuh) with praises
even as a woman cherishes her children."

to a vaisnava vivisvan is the name given to the sun god Surya , although in other traditions other names are given .
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram MV ji :namaste

मैत्रावरुणिः;3592665 said:
The thing about BG Ch.4.V.1 is that it is theologically contesting with the Gayatri Mantra as well as much of the Rig Veda.

it may appear contradictory to you but to me the verse quoted dosent contradict the Gayatri Mantra , ....

Because, Vishnu or Krishna wasn't the one who "instructed" anything to anyone, as per the Rig Veda. Heck, it even goes against not only R.V.3.38.8, but against all of R.V.3.59.
Sri Bhagavan is saying that he instructed Vivisvan and that Vivisvan instructed Manu the father of mankind , and in turn manu instructed Iksvaku the first of the Raghu dynasty .

so here all inteligence stems from Sri Bhagavan but comes down to us from surya (Vivisvan)through Manu and the kirst Kshatriya king of the Raghu dynasty .
thus to ask savitr to grant us the blessing of inteligence and to expand our interlect is not contradictory as that radience is the force behind surya the sun in this planetary system , ...
 
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Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
namaskaram MV ji :namaste



it may appear contradictory to you but to me the verse quoted dosent contradict the Gayatri Mantra , ....

Sri Bhagavan is saying that he instructed Vivisvan and that Vivisvan instructed Manu the father of mankind , and in turn manu instructed Iksvaku the first of the Raghu dynasty .

so here all inteligence stems from Sri Bhagavan but comes down to us from surya (Vivisvan)through Manu and the kirst Kshatriya king of the Raghu dynasty .
thus to ask savitr to grant us the blessing of inteligence and to expand our interlect is not contradictory as that radience is the force behind surya the sun in this planetary system , ...

I'm not going to get into an argument, definitely not with a Vaishnava. I could make a thread on how it's contradictory and how it doesn't hold up, but no one really gives two figs if it does or it doesn't. You believe what you gotta believe.
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram MV ji :namaste

मैत्रावरुणिः;3593063 said:
I'm not going to get into an argument, definitely not with a Vaishnava. I could make a thread on how it's contradictory and how it doesn't hold up, but no one really gives two figs if it does or it doesn't. You believe what you gotta believe.

I am just about fed up to the back teeth with this forum ....no I dont want to get into an argument with you or any one ,

why do you feel the need to prove that someone elses practice is contradictory ???

actualy if you could just discuss it , I would be interested to hear what you have to say or what the vedas have to say ,

but conversations like that only work if both sides can be tollerant and open to eachothers traditions .


and as for your new signature ??? ... yes , frustrating isnt it ....but phd or no phd some people do have some experience and realisation to fall back on ...the trouble is that it is up to you to try to assertain which or who ....
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
I am just about fed up to the back teeth with this forum ....no I dont want to get into an argument with you or any one ,

why do you feel the need to prove that someone elses practice is contradictory ???

You misunderstood me. You can practice all you want; I am not saying that the practice itself is contradictory, just the verse in said question...as it pertains to the Rig Veda, theologically. It had nothing to do with you. It was between me and Kalicharan - it was about something else.

and as for your new signature ??? ... yes , frustrating isnt it ....but phd or no phd some people do have some experience and realisation to fall back on ...the trouble is that it is up to you to try to assertain which or who ....

Psst. Ratiben, the signature ain't even abt chu.
 
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ratikala

Istha gosthi
मैत्रावरुणिः;3593125 said:
You misunderstood me. You can practice all you want; I am not saying that the practice itself is contradictory, just the verse in said question...as it pertains to the Rig Veda, theologically. It had nothing to do with you. It was between me and Kalicharan - it was about something else.


but practice is based on understanding and it would seem that you think the understanding is flawed ???

OK lets think and discuss ....

how can sri bhagavan say one thing in the gita which so contradicts the rig veda ,

let us examine and find out what we are missing ?

Psst. Ratiben, the signature ain't even abt chu.

psst , ..MV bhai , no I know it ain't nececarily about me ... I simply sympathised with your thought ...or frustration , .... allmost everyone these days is a wickipedia junkie and think just because it is in print that it is correct ,.......

Hmm Me ? I am just a gopi ...gopis arn't interested in qualifications or aqqired knowledge ....that ain't jnana !
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
but practice is based on understanding and it would seem that you think the understanding is flawed ???

OK lets think and discuss ....

how can sri bhagavan say one thing in the gita which so contradicts the rig veda ,

let us examine and find out what we are missing ?

Ratikala, it's just a conversation between me and Kalicharan as it pertains to Vedic theology.

psst , ..MV bhai , no I know it ain't nececarily about me

Necessarily? It's not about you at all, Bhagini.

EDIT: Okay, this one is...
 
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ratikala

Istha gosthi
मैत्रावरुणिः;3593230 said:
Ratikala, it's just a conversation between me and Kalicharan as it pertains to Vedic theology.

Ah but I am interested to understand where inconsistancies appear to appear , because I am sure that there is no real inconsistancy between the rigveda and the gita ...even though it may appear so ...
Necessarily? It's not about you at all, Bhagini.

EDIT: Okay, this one is...
I am Ratikala's best friend and most favorite brother .....yes of course you are ... all be it my little brother ...and older sisters can be very strict ...now please we are derailing kalidas's thread tell me about your thoughts on the devi gita ....
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
So I was able to find a breathe between studying for 3 finals and doing 2 end semester projects to read these two chapters.

The more and more I read the more I am happily at ease with being a shakta, it all just seems meant to be lol. In the second chapter she shows the devas and the mountain king her "true form" that which is the entirety of existence. I remember roughly a year ago I had this though or belief that the universe and even we(our bodies)are essentially "part of Gods body". I received a LOT of opposition and yet reading it in scripture really put my mind at ease. The part I found intriguing is unlike most religious ideas of God being against death, "sin", "evilness" etc it was actually a part of her being. Hell she WAS the cause of death eating the creatures of the universe, it was so terrifying even the Devas themselves asked her to turn back for even THEY could not handle the view of such a terror. For me this handles a BIG conundrum that theism has, why does God allow evil? The answer would appear that there really is no evil, just different parts of existence.

Then the next chapter comes and she gives a VERY detailed process of meditation, and how she wishes to be worshiped. I find it no coincidence that I have always been attached to meditation. I will for sure have to read a lot more on how to "do it" because her explanation was WAY more complicated then what I do. Other part I liked we she explained even the importance of having an ishta. That her terrifying form is not and should not be comprehended by us mortals (as stated even the devas ran in fear of such a site, what would us mortals do?) so we should choose a form of maa and think on her, because through one of her many forms we are OF COURSE worshiping her in turn.
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
Namaste,


The second is that members familiar with the Bhagavad Gita will no doubt note
the similarity between Devi's revelation of Her Virat form, and the description
of Vishvarupa Darshan given by Lord Krishna to Arjuna; yet there are also
differences; I will gladly discuss this further, but I am again curious as to what
others here might have offer concerning this.



JAI MATA DI

I noticed the similarities too! Also how different they were. It really went into great detail in the gita. Showing each part of existence as a part of her "biology." Very realistic and systematic in its approach.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Namaste

I am almost done reading the final chapters of DG. And should have a last, closing book review on the conclusion...

By the end of this week.

However, while not to jump the gun, I'm thinkung others should suggest an upanishad or other book at this time?

Om Namah Sivaya
 

JaiMaaDurga

Member
Namaste,

I will await ShivaFan's review before posting again.
As for another book, I would recommend the Tripura Rahasya, an online translation
of which can be found @

scriptures(dot)ru/tripura1(dot)htm

(I cannot post links as I have not made the required
number of posts)

Of course, this is only a suggestion; and if not picked for review, please consider
reading it for its own sake, there is much of value.

JAI MATA DI
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
"Tripura Rahasya was considered by Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi as one of the greatest works that expounded advaita philosophy. He often quoted from it and regretted that it was not available in English. As a consequence Sri Munagala Venkataramaiah (now Swami Ramanananda Saraswathi) took up the work of translation in 1936"

Wow, this book does sound interesting. I am not familiar with it, per JMD's suggestion it might be exciting. Any one know the history of this book?

Here is something (see above) Om Namah Sivaya
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram shiv fan ji

Namaste

I am almost done reading the final chapters of DG. And should have a last, closing book review on the conclusion...

By the end of this week.

hold on one minute ??? we are on chapter three ....now you've finished ???

what happened to the remaining verses ?

where is the discussion ? ...and preferably in some depth ,

.....if you can review the lot in a few parapgraphs without any discussion then it is hardly worth participating . which is sad




However, while not to jump the gun, I'm thinkung others should suggest an upanishad or other book at this time?

Om Namah Sivaya
if we think we can study any book so quickly we are fooling ourselves I dont see the point of continung if we are going to rush through with such speed .
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Oh brother (sister!) R, you totally misunderstood me. Who said I was done? I said I won't have my next commentary-review of the next chapters until the end of tbe week!

Don't get all worked up, as far as detailed analysis as youcan see I have been submltting lots of detaled respones of my own on each chapter.

The next chapters are not long, I should be done by next week. All I asked is, if some might be thinking about the next book, since this club has been fun and I was thinking I could find any free links to some of the suggestions.

It's just a conversation, a thought, not a start of the next book. Take your time!

Om Namah Sivaya
 
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