Book of Job and problem of Evil

[idav]

What does the story of Job say about the problem of evil? Job was a righteous man pretty much tortured just to test his loyalty. Does God get let off the hook even though God allows the evil and is in the middle of the calamities that befall the innocent?

 

[Thief]

Here you go...I quote myself...

I find the preamble to be the most important and interesting part.
Please allow my paraphrasing. It will help me get to the point somewhat quicker.

The Sons of God did gather and with them came the Devil.
( I notice.....more than one son of God )

God does ask..."What are You doing here?"
(directed to the devil)

"oh I just come and go as I damn well please"

"Well....have You considered the least of my servants Job?"
(this is a rub on the Devil's nose....as if to say....the presence of Job...the least of servants.... is preferred.)

The Devil recants....and makes a remark as if to imply the character of Job is less than it should be.

God recants again...and allows the Devil all manner of discretion against Job, short of killing the man.

Now picture yourself as Job.
You're about to have your *** kicked....thoroughly....and by someone who really knows how to kick ***. No warning.

And it was God that sent him your way....and is willing to stand back and do nothing.
The Sons of God are silent.
(end quote)

I started that thread quite some time ago.
It was to cause people to rethink the book of Job.

It was not a test of Job....it was to show the character of the devil.
God had nothing to prove....neither did Job.

It was the devil at play....and he failed.

 

[Koldo]

It was the devil at play....and he failed.

Either way, it was Job, who had nothing to do with that, which ended up suffering.

 

[Thief]

Either way, it was Job, who had nothing to do with that, which ended up suffering.

Yes.

But where most people blame God....as if God is testing Job....nay.

Tragedy and misfortune are the trials of this life.
We tend to believe in life after death.
We want to assume God and heaven have some interest.

But God and heaven are silent.
Standing in the background watching this life unfold.
And we still want to believe that heaven is concerned.

I believe heaven is concerned.
What should have been a brief experience to expose each spirit to a fresh and unique perspective....leans to grief and suffering.

For heaven to be a place of peace....the baggage must be left behind.
If you have difficulty letting go....how can you go?

Do you think Job failed?
He seemed to be 'made whole'....toward the end of that story.

 

[Reptillian]

I think the message of Job is that in reality bad things do happen to good people. Job's friends offer up all sorts of explainations and excuses, many of which you still see amongst religious people (New Orleans flooded because of sinfulness, etc.). The conclusion is that although good people suffer, what's important is how we deal with it. Suffering is beyond our control as humans, it's a real part of our world, now do we get angry and bitter, or do we do what is within our power to allieviate it? How should we, as mortals, deal with suffering? I think this is the fundamental question addressed in the story of Job. Do we don our sack-cloth and mourn? Do we look to the heavens and accuse the gods? Do we blame others or ourselves for our misfortune? Or do we accept our reality, show compassion, and live good lives?

 

[Thief]

I think the message of Job is that in reality bad things do happen to good people. Job's friends offer up all sorts of explainations and excuses, many of which you still see amongst religious people (New Orleans flooded because of sinfulness, etc.). The conclusion is that although good people suffer, what's important is how we deal with it. Suffering is beyond our control as humans, it's a real part of our world, now do we get angry and bitter, or do we do what is within our power to allieviate it? How should we, as mortals, deal with suffering? I think this is the fundamental question addressed in the story of Job. Do we don our sack-cloth and mourn? Do we look to the heavens and accuse the gods? Do we blame others or ourselves for our misfortune? Or do we accept our reality, show compassion, and live good lives?

So...in spite of power and ability....
we will allow the Lord God to be blameless...
it is the devil, that strikes for cause of insult and pride...
and we are to keep a stiff upper lip, no matter what?

I might agree.

 

[Koldo]

Yes.

But where most people blame God....as if God is testing Job....nay.

The blame is put on God because he did nothing to prevent those acts from happening. And he could.

 

[Koldo]

I think the message of Job is that in reality bad things do happen to good people. Job's friends offer up all sorts of explainations and excuses, many of which you still see amongst religious people (New Orleans flooded because of sinfulness, etc.). The conclusion is that although good people suffer, what's important is how we deal with it. Suffering is beyond our control as humans, it's a real part of our world, now do we get angry and bitter, or do we do what is within our power to allieviate it? How should we, as mortals, deal with suffering? I think this is the fundamental question addressed in the story of Job. Do we don our sack-cloth and mourn? Do we look to the heavens and accuse the gods? Do we blame others or ourselves for our misfortune? Or do we accept our reality, show compassion, and live good lives?

To add to what you said, the message of Job is also that God simply does as he wills, and you have no right to question his will.

The conclusion is that you simply won't know why you/we suffer.

 

[Reptillian]

So...in spite of power and ability....
we will allow the Lord God to be blameless...
it is the devil, that strikes for cause of insult and pride...
and we are to keep a stiff upper lip, no matter what?

I might agree.

I think the point is that be it God or Satan, some things happen that are beyond our control. What's important is how we mortals deal with these things when they occur.

 

[Reptillian]

To add to what you said, the message of Job is also that God simply does as he wills, and you have no right to question his will.

The conclusion is that you simply won't know why you/we suffer.

I think it's dealing with the oldest problem in the human condition. That things occur which are beyond our power and outside of our understanding, and whether we blame others, ourselves, or the gods...we need to deal with these occurances in a healthy manner.

 

[Thief]

I think the point is that be it God or Satan, some things happen that are beyond our control. What's important is how we mortals deal with these things when they occur.

And will this display of courage draw the attention of heaven?

 

[Koldo]

I think it's dealing with the oldest problem in the human condition. That things occur which are beyond our power and outside of our understanding, and whether we blame others, ourselves, or the gods...we need to deal with these occurances in a healthy manner.

As long as acting in a healthy manner involves never being blaphemous then that is indeed what the story of Job is about.

 

[javajo]

Must I be carried to the skies
On flowery beds of ease,
While others fought to win the prize
And sailed through bloody seas? --Watts

A contented person has learned to accept the bitter with the sweet. God allows us to go through some suffering, his goal is to make us holy, not just happy. And when we are holy, we are more likely to be truly happy and content.

As Job says, "Though he slay me, yet will I trust him." He also said that he knows his redeemer lives and that he will stand before him at the end of time. God was gracious to Job in this life as well and restored him many fold what he had lost.

No one should be shaken by these afflictions, for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this. 1 Thess. 3:3

I may add that in this fallen world we will experience suffering as a natural result of the curse of death that sin brought. We may experience sickness, disease, bodily injury, persecution, etc., some of which is brought on by our own bad choices or by others or by no fault of our own, but all because of the fall. In this life we are to learn to trust God in all circumstances. But don't fret, this world will soon pass and be restored to a world of no suffering or death or sorrow, to the praise of God who's wisdom surpasses all our earthly understanding!

 

[idav]

It was not a test of Job....it was to show the character of the devil.
God had nothing to prove....neither did Job.

It was the devil at play....and he failed.

It was a test of Job to prove to the devil. God would have already known that the devil would fail. Job wasn't supposed to stay loyal after being inflicted with so much pain and suffering.

 

[Thief]

It was a test of Job to prove to the devil. God would have already known that the devil would fail. Job wasn't supposed to stay loyal after being inflicted with so much pain and suffering.

Job had nothing to prove....God knew His servant.

It was the devil that took insult that the presence of Job (a servant)
would be preferred as the devil stood among the sons of God.

It was the devil with something to prove.
The concept that you can prove yourself by the failing of someone else....
was the effort made by the devil.

Even if the devil had caused Job to fault....
would that prove the devil...greater?

Or would it be further proof....the true character of God's Fallen Favorite?

 

[kellykep]

Many people think of God and religion as a means to acquire wealth directly or in the form of various blessings that God bestow to His followers. This is quite common in the Christiandom.
But the Book of Job shows that genuine worship exists on a totally different level - one that disregards all that the physicality represents.

 

[idav]

Many people think of God and religion as a means to acquire wealth directly or in the form of various blessings that God bestow to His followers. This is quite common in the Christiandom.
But the Book of Job shows that genuine worship exists on a totally different level - one that disregards all that the physicality represents.

That is a good take, Job was proving nothing matters in the scheme of things except god.

 

[idav]

I think it's dealing with the oldest problem in the human condition. That things occur which are beyond our power and outside of our understanding, and whether we blame others, ourselves, or the gods...we need to deal with these occurances in a healthy manner.

Not only does the story point out that we are not in control but it shows that God is in control and yet evil happens for no reason really.