Brahman or Self is pure consciousness...

[stvdv]

There are a lot of miracles associated with Ramana Maharshi and other sages, but these are all based on the psychic powers listed by Patanjali in the Yoga Sutras that comes with advanced levels of samadhi, and I do not give it any special importance.

There are miracles to be experienced. In all humbleness I gratefully accept and enjoy them as Divine visiting cards. I do not belittle nor extoll them.

 

[stvdv]

What is important is the teachings these sages gave and it is important to emphasize them at this time where there is a lot of misinterpretation done by pseudoscholars.

I agree that "good teachings" better be cherished. Sai Baba also taught us "no need even to mention my name, just remember my teachings".
And the Yoga Vasistha teaches us to accept the words of a fool if they are full of wisdom and to reject untruth even if spoken by God himself

In the case of the examples of Sai Baba and Ramana Maharishi, I know it might have been true. And when staying equal minded there is no problem anyway. Of course humans have this tendency to extoll what really happened. Like fishermen always tell about the big fishes they caught. Misinterpretation by pseudoscholars will always be there, as the earth seems to be a place humans can (un)learn (some slow others faster)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ramana Maharshi is one of the greatest IMO. I like this anecdote about Him.
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"Baba lay prostrate on our hands, when all of a sudden His body rose up in air from our arms."
It will be interesting to know if Sri Ramana's body rose six inches, or two feet, or ten feet, nearly touching the ceiling of the room!

 

[stvdv]

"Baba lay prostrate on our hands, when all of a sudden His body rose up in air from our arms."
It will be interesting to know if Sri Ramana's body rose six inches, or two feet, or ten feet, nearly touching the ceiling of the room!

Would be more interesting to "see" it myself though ... I never saw a human body levitate (for real). Most fun would be "my body levitating" though
Ten feet = ca. 3 meters. Even in Holland my ceiling is not that high, so my guess is, that Ramana's room is much less. 7 feet max., I think.

It will be interesting to know if Sri Ramana's body rose six inches, or two feet, or ten feet, nearly touching the ceiling of the room!

Ramana might be turning around in His grave now, as we write ... "Ramana's body" ... "Who Am I" ... "Whose body it is?"

 

[ajay0]

I agree that "good teachings" better be cherished. Sai Baba also taught us "no need even to mention my name, just remember my teachings".

Yeah, it is the teachings that are important. And proper understanding and application of the teachings results in Self-realisation.

This is why distortion of the teachings are frowned upon by Upanishadic philosophy citing Virochana's erroneous understanding of Brahman.

Upanishads

 

[stvdv]

Yeah, it is the teachings that are important. And proper understanding and application of the teachings results in Self-realisation.

This is why distortion of the teachings are frowned upon by Upanishadic philosophy citing Virochana's erroneous understanding of Brahman.

Upanishads

Thank you for the story ... the first few lines I already love, they put us straight on the "path leading to truth"

Once Prajapati, the creator of the universe announced, “The Self is the sinless, ageless and deathless One; it has no sorrow nor hunger nor thirst. The goal of all its desire is the Truth, Truth is the one thing worthy of its resolve. It is this Self that has to be sought after, it alone one should seek to know. And one who seeks after the Self and knows it, gains possessions of all the worlds, wins all that is desirable.” (From Chandogya Upanishad, Chapter 8.7-12)
. . . .
After the period was over Prajapati called Indra beside him and said: “O Indra, you have deserved the knowledge of the highest truth by your persistent effort and intense inquisitiveness.” Saying this Prajapati revealed that part of the highest knowledge to Indra for which he was ready at that point of time.

Thank you for sharing "The Story of Indra and Virochana". It took Indra 3*32+5 = 101 years of surrender(+enquiry) to Prajapati to realize the truth. 32 years to realize Indra was not the body + 32 years to realize dreams are not the "real thing" + 32 years to realize "deep sleep" is not "real".

Once, in an effort to surrender and focus only on my Guru, I threw out all others books from other teachers. Also "I am That" (Nisargadatta)
That night Sai Baba came in my dream with Nisargadatta; I was walking in the middle of them (Full Surrender and Self Enquiry).

So, although dreams are illusion, sometimes the Masters use dreams to convey important messages to us.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Even in Holland my ceiling is not that high, so my guess is, that Ramana's room is much less. 7 feet max., I think.
Ramana might be turning around in His grave now, as we write ... "Ramana's body" ... "Who Am I" ... "Whose body it is?"

We used to have very high ceilings because of heat in India, much more than yesterday's normal of 14 feet.
All bodies are Brahman, since no other thing exists in the universe.
"Eko sad, dwiteeyo nasti; nasti, nasti, na nasti kadachana."

 

[Aupmanyav]

"The Self is the sinless, ageless and deathless One; it has no sorrow nor hunger nor thirst. The goal of all its desire is the Truth, Truth is the one thing worthy of its resolve. It is this Self that has to be sought after, it alone one should seek to know. And one who seeks after the Self and knows it, gains possessions of all the worlds, wins all that is desirable.”

Self has no desires, neither truth nor falsehood, neither dharma nor adharma. One needs to go beyond these dualities.

 

[ajay0]

Thank you for the story ... the first few lines I already love, they put us straight on the "path leading to truth"

Prajñānam brahma - Brahman is pure consciousness (Aitareya Upanishad 3.3 of the Rig Veda)


The Vedas clearly state that Brahman is pure consciousness.


However in the story, we can see Virochana,leader of the demons,deludedly believing Brahman is not pure consciousness and is the body and imparting his deluded knowledge to others without discretion resulting in whole-scale diffusion of ignorance.

Indra on the other hand, was more intelligent and diligent, and realized the Vedic dictum that Brahman is pure consciousness through his own investigation, study and contemplation.

This story is highlighted in Vedic philosophy as a classic study of delusion which is highly probable in the philosophy of Advaita on account of the difficulty for proper comprehension. This enables students of the philosophy to be wary of such incorrect deviations in the proper study of Advaita.

Srimad Bhagavatham, the sacred biography of Krishna also prophesizes and warns of the high probability of deluded understanding of Upanishadic philosophy in the Kali Yuga.

Srimad Bhagavatam 12.3.32: Cities will be dominated by thieves, the Vedas will be contaminated by speculative interpretations of atheists, political leaders will virtually consume the citizens, and the so-called priests and intellectuals will be devotees of their bellies and genitals.


This prophecy of the sacred scripture Srimadbhagavatham is enough caution for any sincere student of Upanishadic philosophy to be on their guard so as not to fall in the clutches of Maya and end up weak and deluded.

 

[stvdv]

Prajñānam brahma - Brahman is pure consciousness (Aitareya Upanishad 3.3 of the Rig Veda)
The Vedas clearly state that Brahman is pure consciousness.

The West goes wrong here en masse. They see consciousness as "my consciousness", as in being aware of the world/body etc.
wiki gives: Consciousness at its simplest is "awareness or sentience of internal or external existence".
Scientific American: Consciousness is everything you experience. It is the tune stuck in your head, the sweetness of chocolate mousse, the pain..
At least "Scientific American" starts with:"What Is Consciousness? Scientists are beginning to unravel a mystery that has long vexed philosophers"

It's interesting to see. They acknowledge they have no knowledge about it yet, and they know they have been belittling the Eastern Wisdom, but still they are not open to Eastern Wisdom. But we all know that Truth will always win from lies. So in the end they will accept Eastern Wisdom.

 

[stvdv]

However in the story, we can see Virochana,leader of the demons,deludedly believing Brahman is not pure consciousness and is the body and imparting his deluded knowledge to others without discretion resulting in whole-scale diffusion of ignorance.

Indra on the other hand, was more intelligent and diligent, and realized the Vedic dictum that Brahman is pure consciousness through his own investigation, study and contemplation.

This story is highlighted in Vedic philosophy as a classic study of delusion which is highly probable in the philosophy of Advaita on account of the difficulty for proper comprehension. This enables students of the philosophy to be wary of such incorrect deviations in the proper study of Advaita.

It is quite simple to understand why this happens IMO.

"Pure" Consciousness can only be understood when there is "purified" body/mind/buddhi etc. This means people have to eat satwic food, and meditate to purify etc. This process takes many years (3 times 32 years as per your example). Nowadays we see on RF Atheists demanding "proof to us this and this". They have no interest to know the truth, those that demand like this. If you want to know the truth, you stop demanding others to proof it to you, and you start "doing the time". Purify your body/mind etc.

What I really liked about the story was, that the teacher let the "lazy one" get away with his "untruth". The teacher not even told him he was wrong.

 

[stvdv]

Srimad Bhagavatham, the sacred biography of Krishna also prophesizes and warns of the high probability of deluded understanding of Upanishadic philosophy in the Kali Yuga.

Srimad Bhagavatam 12.3.32: Cities will be dominated by thieves, the Vedas will be contaminated by speculative interpretations of atheists, political leaders will virtually consume the citizens, and the so-called priests and intellectuals will be devotees of their bellies and genitals.

This is great to read, I never read this verse before. Even Atheists are specifically mentioned to contaminate the Vedas. And now with this Corona thing, I clearly see "political leaders consuming citizens". And the news was full of "Priests and intellectuals being devotees of bellies and genitals"

 

[stvdv]

Srimad Bhagavatam 12.3.32: Cities will be dominated by thieves, the Vedas will be contaminated by speculative interpretations of atheists, political leaders will virtually consume the citizens, and the so-called priests and intellectuals will be devotees of their bellies and genitals.

This prophecy of the sacred scripture Srimadbhagavatham is enough caution for any sincere student of Upanishadic philosophy to be on their guard so as not to fall in the clutches of Maya and end up weak and deluded.

Thank you for sharing this verse. I avoid debating about spirituality on RF and even stopped explaining spiritual wisdom. If they want to know, they better study hard themselves. And if they don't study, well, then I know they do not really want to know. And that is fine with me (confirmed now by your study). I have been lazy too, so I understand others who are lazy. I "like" to go faster, but discovered that this takes time. Purify myself on all levels is all I need to do, and stick to the right Teacher and Teachings.

Thanks again for the beautiful verses from the Vedas. My Master explained it very clear already, but reading it just makes me happy, and is a good reminder, because I admit that I fall in the trap of laziness more than I "like". So someone to remind me to stay sharp on "real wisdom", is very welcome.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I like your post 30 grudgingly since it acknowledges Eastern wisdom, but we have so many differences of understanding between us.

This process takes many years (3 times 32 years as per your example). Nowadays we see on RF Atheists demanding "proof to us this and this". They have no interest to know the truth, those that demand like this. If you want to know the truth, you stop demanding others to proof it to you, and you start "doing the time". Purify your body/mind etc.
What I really liked about the story was, that the teacher let the "lazy one" get away with his "untruth". The teacher not even told him he was wrong.

It does not take that long. 3 times 32 is 96. Going by that there should be none in the world who has any understanding. Whoever told you this is making up things on his/her own (out of ...). How old is/was your teacher? How would you know whether something is truth or falsehood if you do not check the proof? Why are you accusing me of an impure body/mind?
What else the teacher could do if he had no proof of what he was saying? Except to say that only he knew the truth and the other one was wrong? One would be better without such teachers.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Even Atheists are specifically mentioned to contaminate the Vedas.

And you know that writers of Vedas were probably the first atheist in the world who, in "Nasadiya Sukta", categorically said:

"Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?"
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation.

Stvdv, believe whatever untruth you want, it does not affect me. But Hindus in general and Advaitist in particular are more discerning than that. They shoot untruth far better than Olympic champions. If anything can't stand scrutiny, then it is untruth.

 

[stvdv]

Stvdv, believe whatever untruth you want, it does not affect me

I see you feel attacked by me highlighting the part about Atheists from the scripture. And as a result project "untruth" on me. This is not wisdom.

And there is not need. In this Kali Yuga most people act Adharmic, so for sure also most Atheists (but also most Theists). As most Atheists do not do sadhana (improve spiritually), they are not on the spiritual path nor interested in this.

There are Atheists on the other hand, that are interested in spirituality (purifying body/mind/buddhi etc)), and they follow Dharma. These Atheists were not meant in the verse from the scripture above.

 

[stvdv]

I like your post 30 grudgingly since it acknowledges Eastern wisdom, but we have so many differences of understanding between us.

I don't know if we have so many differences of understanding. We don't know each other. We only read a few of each other's posts.

It does not take that long. 3 times 32 is 96. Going by that there should be none in the world who has any understanding

I did not claim it takes 96 years, I just said it takes many years (except maybe a few exceptions who get instant enlightenment). I just referred to the example in which it took 96 years to illustrate it takes many years (not claiming it always takes that much)

Whoever told you this is making up things on his/her own (out of ...).

The Story of Indra and Virochana
From Chandogya Upanishad, Chapter 8.7-12

How would you know whether something is truth or falsehood if you do not check the proof?

You would not know, unless you already know.

Why are you accusing me of an impure body/mind?

I do not accuse you of impure body/mind. I only mentioned Atheist who do not do sadhana (purifying senses).
Why you feel attacked?

Personally I admit, that I do not always eat satwic food, so my body/mind is not yet pure. At least I admit it, better than to pretend IMO.
Do you claim that you have "pure body/mind"?

What else the teacher could do if he had no proof of what he was saying? Except to say that only he knew the truth and the other one was wrong? One would be better without such teachers.

It was not just "some teacher". Did you read the story? And are you sure it's wise to dismiss this teacher, just like that?

 

[Aupmanyav]

As most Atheists do not do sadhana ..

"Aham Brahmasmi". What sadhana Brahman has to do?

 

[stvdv]

"Aham Brahmasmi". What sadhana Brahman has to do?

"Sadhana is needed" to come to the point that "no sadhana is needed"

Some people think that "reading I am God" = "realizing I am God"

These people need sadhana

 

[Aupmanyav]

Let me add to my post:
"Tat twam asi". You (too) are that, but you have not yet realized that and are running after babas and gurus.

Do you claim that you have "pure body/mind"?

What pure body and mind a person can claim? Do you not know what is inside the body?