Brexit is Costing Britain 500 Million Pounds per Week and Growing

[Stevicus]

Don't be. I have long realized that countries are nothing more than abstractions. They are owed no inherent love, because they do not actually mean anything. They are just shorthand for the communities that live in the territory.

I think national patriotism is not unlike a religion in many ways, at least as some might view it here in the U.S. It seems to be a necessity in countries with histories of sending troops around the world in far-flung wars.

But there is a practical side, too. Just as people might support what is beneficial for their own communities, there's a motivated self-interest at work.

 

[Notanumber]

Fine.
They wouldn't have a huge defense budget wasting money on nuclear nonsense; they would cut their cloth to suit, introduce a tourist tax. When they get back in the EU they will have great trading opportunities - the motor industry will be interested in moving their. IT is already big in Dundee.

They'll be fine.

Let’s hope you are right for their sake.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I find it disturbing that some anti-Brexit people seem actually to hope for the UK to collapse into strife rather than accept the will of the people.

I don't hope the UK collapses into strife. I hope the UK dissolves and fades into the history books where it belongs. What I see though is a government voted in by England preparing to impose martial law on the UK in the event of a no-deal Brexit. I don't doubt for a minute that they'll such an opportunity to close down our Parliament and arrest our MSPs as soon as they can.

If they do I would want to fight and I hope my countrymen wouldn't take such a thing lying down.

The Remoaners started picking fights on the majority of their country as soon as they lost the democratic vote.

Only a self-entitled Leaver would consider a result won through cheating to be democratic. Screw the rest of us. So long as you get the result you want, and regardless of how the vote was rigged, what you want is democratic like it or not.

The Scots would be ill advised to leave their English benefactor and hitch their wagon to the dwindling EU star.

You've given us no reason to assume the EU is dwindling beyond your desire for that to happen. Quite the opposite, it is the UK which is at very real risk of fracturing. The mindless pursuit of a hard English Brexit is alienating the populations of Scotland & Northern Ireland to the point where independence for the former, and reunification for the latter, look more appealing than maintaining the British Union. This approach is also jeopardising the Good Friday Agreement

And the shine is quickly fading from this 'England subsidises Scotland' myth. It doesn't add up; why would the Conservatives choose to keep control of a population who consistently vote against them and are an economic drain? Look at how they treat the poor, the disabled and the vulnerable. It's despicable. Now try and square that with the fact the Tories want Scotland to stay in the UK.

Why do they want us around? Our ****ing charm? No. The truth is because Scotland is an asset to the UK; in fact it's more than likely we who subsidise England. Or, more specifically, Westminster. It's Scotland's oil, not yours.

There may be some projection operating here as well. I wonder how Scottish and Irish feel about the idea of England being its benefactor, given the often bloody story of their relationships with that land.

It doesn't stand up to scrutiny. For all that they moan about us being scroungers and a liability, the English-dominated Unionist parties are strangely desperate for us to keep the UK together. The only reason I can think of is we're not as big of a liability as they want us to think we are.

And this condescending 'we English are very generous to the Scots' superiority complex is a bit grating, if I'm being honest.

I used to love my country and I am doing my best to continue to do so while others around seem to want to drag its name through the mud.

This doesn't match up to the fact you're actively supporting a political decision you know was gained illegally and will result in completely avoidable massive economic damage for your country, and which could result in its dissolution.

The Scots would do well not to look a gift horse in the mouth. The EU would not treat them so generously.

The same gift horse that is grabbing powers back from our parliament without our consent; is reducing our budget in real terms by transferring increased responsibility for expenditure without the commensurate responsibility for revenue to match; and whose politicians have consistently squandered our resources for their own selfish gains?

I think not. The UK should be dissolved. If England wants to be an isolationist rump state then it is not our responsibility to try and persuade you otherwise. Go on and seal yourselves off from the world. Continue to live in your deluded bubble of glorious Empire. We shall move on without you and be all the better off for it.

 

[LuisDantas]

That sounds very depressing to me but I respect your point of view.

Depressing? It really isn't.

 

[Notanumber]

I don't hope the UK collapses into strife. I hope the UK dissolves and fades into the history books where it belongs. What I see though is a government voted in by England preparing to impose martial law on the UK in the event of a no-deal Brexit. I don't doubt for a minute that they'll such an opportunity to close down our Parliament and arrest our MSPs as soon as they can.

If they do I would want to fight and I hope my countrymen wouldn't take such a thing lying down.




Only a self-entitled Leaver would consider a result won through cheating to be democratic. Screw the rest of us. So long as you get the result you want, and regardless of how the vote was rigged, what you want is democratic like it or not.




You've given us no reason to assume the EU is dwindling beyond your desire for that to happen. Quite the opposite, it is the UK which is at very real risk of fracturing. The mindless pursuit of a hard English Brexit is alienating the populations of Scotland & Northern Ireland to the point where independence for the former, and reunification for the latter, look more appealing than maintaining the British Union. This approach is also jeopardising the Good Friday Agreement

And the shine is quickly fading from this 'England subsidises Scotland' myth. It doesn't add up; why would the Conservatives choose to keep control of a population who consistently vote against them and are an economic drain? Look at how they treat the poor, the disabled and the vulnerable. It's despicable. Now try and square that with the fact the Tories want Scotland to stay in the UK.

Why do they want us around? Our ****ing charm? No. The truth is because Scotland is an asset to the UK; in fact it's more than likely we who subsidise England. Or, more specifically, Westminster. It's Scotland's oil, not yours.




It doesn't stand up to scrutiny. For all that they moan about us being scroungers and a liability, the English-dominated Unionist parties are strangely desperate for us to keep the UK together. The only reason I can think of is we're not as big of a liability as they want us to think we are.

And this condescending 'we English are very generous to the Scots' superiority complex is a bit grating, if I'm being honest.




This doesn't match up to the fact you're actively supporting a political decision you know was gained illegally and will result in completely avoidable massive economic damage for your country, and which could result in its dissolution.




The same gift horse that is grabbing powers back from our parliament without our consent; is reducing our budget in real terms by transferring increased responsibility for expenditure without the commensurate responsibility for revenue to match; and whose politicians have consistently squandered our resources for their own selfish gains?

I think not. The UK should be dissolved. If England wants to be an isolationist rump state then it is not our responsibility to try and persuade you otherwise. Go on and seal yourselves off from the world. Continue to live in your deluded bubble of glorious Empire. We shall move on without you and be all the better off for it.

If Scotland joined the EU, would it be a net contributor or a net beneficiary?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

If Scotland joined the EU, would it be a net contributor or a net beneficiary?

Notice how you've not addressed any of the points I raised.

I suspect you're unable to but I'm interested to see if you can prove me wrong.

 

[wellwisher]

Article.

Comments?

This is not due to Brexit, but to the foot dragging by the opposition to Brexit. The opposition is creating uncertainty by not allowing Brexit to get under way and start turning a profit.

The analogy is I rent some space to start a business. The next day I am ready to go. My partner does not want to move there, so he sets up obstacles. The space is already leased and ready to go, but the business is placed in limbo because of his foot dragging. Now we are running a deficit. Then in typical liberal fashion, my partner blames the decision to move, on the loss of profit. He is never at fault.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

This is not due to Brexit, but to the foot dragging by the opposition to Brexit. The opposition is creating uncertainty by not allowing Brexit to get under way and start turning a profit.

Not true at all. The uncertainty is caused by the fact Brexit-supporters had, and still have, no agreed upon idea of what Brexit was going to look like. They had no plan for what would happen should they win, and they're now trying to insist that everyone voted for a no-deal Brexit which is a very liberal reinterpretation of the result they got. The uncertainty has arisen and Brexit hasn't even happened; because everyone except Leavers who mindlessly believe everything will be fine is saying things will be worse because of Brexit, no matter what kind it is.

The increasing possibility of a no-deal Brexit thanks both to Westminster intransigence as well as increasing English xenophobia is what is driving businesses away. Faced with a choice between an isolationist British Union which might not even last 10 more years, and one of the largest markets, with frictionless borders and free movement of goods and services across 27 countries, it's not really any surprise businesses are choosing the EU.

You cannot reasonably blame those of us who voted Remain for any of this. All this is a result of the Leave vote. Lay the blame at the feet of those who made that choice, please.

The analogy is I rent some space to start a business. The next day I am ready to go. My partner does not want to move there, so he sets up obstacles. The space is already leased and ready to go, but the business is placed in limbo because of his foot dragging. Now we are running a deficit. Then in typical liberal fashion, my partner blames the decision to move, on the loss of profit. He is never at fault.

The analogy is incredibly flawed. A better one would be you're trying to end your tenancy agreement for a rented space but either still want to have access to it (May's position) or you have nowhere to go because you didn't plan ahead (no-deal Brexit).

Your partner in this analogy is correct. The resulting loss of profit would be your fault as you chose to create the conditions whereby said loss occurred. It would be especially accurate if he, your business partner, had voted against the decision and you decided to act unilaterally regardless of his wishes rather than come to some form of compromise. If you made such a stupid decision you'd deserve any business difficulties you faced. Do not also be surprised if your business partner decided they didn't want to have dealings with someone who unilaterally takes such risks and jeopardises their future as well as your own.

 

[Notanumber]

Notice how you've not addressed any of the points I raised.

I suspect you're unable to but I'm interested to see if you can prove me wrong.

If the EU were to take on another country, it would have to be one that could help prop it up financially as the UK has been doing for decades.

The French are already rioting on the streets!

 

[Notanumber]

Not true at all. The uncertainty is caused by the fact Brexit-supporters had, and still have, no agreed upon idea of what Brexit was going to look like. They had no plan for what would happen should they win, and they're now trying to insist that everyone voted for a no-deal Brexit which is a very liberal reinterpretation of the result they got. The uncertainty has arisen and Brexit hasn't even happened; because everyone except Leavers who mindlessly believe everything will be fine is saying things will be worse because of Brexit, no matter what kind it is.

The increasing possibility of a no-deal Brexit thanks both to Westminster intransigence as well as increasing English xenophobia is what is driving businesses away. Faced with a choice between an isolationist British Union which might not even last 10 more years, and one of the largest markets, with frictionless borders and free movement of goods and services across 27 countries, it's not really any surprise businesses are choosing the EU.

You cannot reasonably blame those of us who voted Remain for any of this. All this is a result of the Leave vote. Lay the blame at the feet of those who made that choice, please.




The analogy is incredibly flawed. A better one would be you're trying to end your tenancy agreement for a rented space but either still want to have access to it (May's position) or you have nowhere to go because you didn't plan ahead (no-deal Brexit).

Your partner in this analogy is correct. The resulting loss of profit would be your fault as you chose to create the conditions whereby said loss occurred. It would be especially accurate if he, your business partner, had voted against the decision and you decided to act unilaterally regardless of his wishes rather than come to some form of compromise. If you made such a stupid decision you'd deserve any business difficulties you faced. Do not also be surprised if your business partner decided they didn't want to have dealings with someone who unilaterally takes such risks and jeopardises their future as well as your own.

It was a Remainer government that gave us the Referendum without planning for what would happen should they lose. How is that for arrogance?

The establishment elites have continued to take the people for granted ever since just like in France and look what is happening there.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

It was a Remainer government that gave us the Referendum without planning for what would happen should they lose. How is that for arrogance?

First off, you are assuming (mistakenly, I suspect) that the Tories wanted Remain to win. I don't think they did as they deliberately stacked the odds against us.

Secondly, assuming you're right for the sake of argument, why should Remainers have to bear the responsibility of thinking up a plan for what Brexit will look like but the Leavers don't? Why is it our responsibility to do your thinking for you? Why didn't your side think of a plan? Why didn't your side stick to the minimal proposals it put forward? Before the ballot a Leave vote was only about EU membership, not the Single Market or the Customs Union; but after the ballot the Leave vote was suddenly about membership of the EU, Single Market and Customs Union.

How on earth can you expect us to take your side seriously when you're this flagrantly dishonest and engage in this sort of intellectually lazy buck-passing?

The establishment elites have continued to take the people for granted ever since just like in France and look what is happening there.

So instead you've voted to empower a right-wing elitist government that has every intention of scrapping the Human Rights Act and imposing martial law post-Brexit.



Well ****ing done.

 

[Altfish]

This is not due to Brexit, but to the foot dragging by the opposition to Brexit. The opposition is creating uncertainty by not allowing Brexit to get under way and start turning a profit.

The analogy is I rent some space to start a business. The next day I am ready to go. My partner does not want to move there, so he sets up obstacles. The space is already leased and ready to go, but the business is placed in limbo because of his foot dragging. Now we are running a deficit. Then in typical liberal fashion, my partner blames the decision to move, on the loss of profit. He is never at fault.

Once again Brexiteers blaming the Remain side.
If you remember, the Brexit deal will be the "easiest in human history" (Liam Fox) David Davies said some thing similar
A better analogy would be... I rent some space to start a business. I have no idea what the business will be or how I will get it off the ground. The next day I am ready to go, but not sure where or how.. My partner wants to know about my plans for the space so he asks questions. The space is already leased and ready to go, but the business is placed in limbo because I don't know what I'm going to do. Now we are running a deficit. Then in typical right wing fashion, I blame the decision to move,on him not backing me despite me having no idea what I want to do. I am never at fault

 

[Notanumber]

First off, you are assuming (mistakenly, I suspect) that the Tories wanted Remain to win. I don't think they did as they deliberately stacked the odds against us.

Secondly, assuming you're right for the sake of argument, why should Remainers have to bear the responsibility of thinking up a plan for what Brexit will look like but the Leavers don't? Why is it our responsibility to do your thinking for you? Why didn't your side think of a plan? Why didn't your side stick to the minimal proposals it put forward? Before the ballot a Leave vote was only about EU membership, not the Single Market or the Customs Union; but after the ballot the Leave vote was suddenly about membership of the EU, Single Market and Customs Union.

How on earth can you expect us to take your side seriously when you're this flagrantly dishonest and engage in this sort of intellectually lazy buck-passing?




So instead you've voted to empower a right-wing elitist government that has every intention of scrapping the Human Rights Act and imposing martial law post-Brexit.



Well ****ing done.

It has become obvious that many in the UK are unaware that the establishment elites including the MSM are treating them like the proverbial mushrooms.

George does his best to enlighten those that are affected by the above syndrome here -

 

[Altfish]

Cost of Brexit to UK economy running at £40bn a year – Bank rate-setter

The news just gets worse...[sigh]

 

[Woberts]

Cost of Brexit to UK economy running at £40bn a year – Bank rate-setter

The news just gets worse...[sigh]

You should run for PM and rejoin the uk to the EU. You can do this, I believe in you!

 

[Altfish]

You should run for PM and rejoin the uk to the EU. You can do this, I believe in you!

I'm not sufficient a hypocrite to be a politician.

 

[Woberts]

I'm not sufficient a hypocrite to be a politician.

Welp, there goes that plan.

 

[Notanumber]

The problem is that the Remoaners cannot see what damage they are doing to their country.

 

[Altfish]

The problem is that the Remoaners cannot see what damage they are doing to their country.

We have done nothing; we want the status quo which is working fine.

 

[LuisDantas]

Once again Brexiteers blaming the Remain side.
If you remember, the Brexit deal will be the "easiest in human history" (Liam Fox) David Davies said some thing similar
A better analogy would be... I rent some space to start a business. I have no idea what the business will be or how I will get it off the ground. The next day I am ready to go, but not sure where or how.. My partner wants to know about my plans for the space so he asks questions. The space is already leased and ready to go, but the business is placed in limbo because I don't know what I'm going to do. Now we are running a deficit. Then in typical right wing fashion, I blame the decision to move,on him not backing me despite me having no idea what I want to do. I am never at fault

Indeed, that is how it sounds to me.

The claim of Brexit as a pathway towards economic improvement has always been doubtful at best. It has only become more questionable as time goes by.

There are plenty of objective facts and arguments pointing out quite the opposite, but the Leavers seem to consistently refuse to acknowledge them at all. There are hardly any efforts to actually support Brexit as a potentially economically sensible action.

We are apparently meant to take at face value, dogmatically, that there is some sort of mythical "sovereignity" substance or quality that will somehow magically make everything better once it is enabled by Brexit. Far as I can tell there has been exactly zero actual argument towards explaining how that could possibly work, let alone compensate the very visible losses that are already occurring and will continue to.

Do the ERG and its supporters even care whether Brexit would be good for the UK? It sure does not appear that way to me. To the best of my understanding it is just a matter of vanity given too much free reign for anyone's good, resulting in almost automatic accusations that everything that happens must somehow be the fault of either the EU or those blasted remainers...