Bringing Jesus back to Christianity

[Dickster]

It seems that many Christians today, especially those who most loudly proclaim themselves to be Christian, have drifted far from Jesus. When they quote Scripture they usually quote the Old Testament or the often angry and superior Paul, and seldom the too soft and liberal Jesus. Just about any evil has been rationalized and justified, including slavery, genocide, polygamy and fascism, by cherry-picking verses from the Old Testament. The loving words of Jesus are conveniently ignored in a time when anger, superiority, fear, judgment and intolerance are the foundation of politics and faith for many; when the poor, sick and disadvantaged should be ashamed of themselves; when one's worth is determined primarily by business and financial success.

Jesus loved the sinners and reserved His greatest resentment for the Moneychangers and Pharisees. And yet so many today are new versions of the Pharisees in which the letter of scripture takes precedence over its intent.

Furthermore, Jesus' teachings have been diluted for centuries by the spread of hundreds of Christian denominations, each of which claims to have the best and truest interpretations.

What if we cleared away the muddied water, returned to our foundations and formed a church based solely upon the teachings and actions of Jesus, upon nothing more than the four gospels? The Old Testament would merely be a source of historical reference and would not be the law, unless directly endorsed by Jesus, such as the Ten Commandments. The church's purpose would be supporting gathering and discussion and not for mandating interpretations.

Wouldn't we be a better world if we truly lived lives of faith, charity, love, tolerance and joy? What if being Christ-like meant being like Christ and not just a slogan to justify superiority?

Richard S.

 

[Deidre]

It seems that many Christians today, especially those who most loudly proclaim themselves to be Christian, have drifted far from Jesus. When they quote Scripture they usually quote the Old Testament or the often angry and superior Paul, and seldom the too soft and liberal Jesus. Just about any evil has been rationalized and justified, including slavery, genocide, polygamy and fascism, by cherry-picking verses from the Old Testament. The loving words of Jesus are conveniently ignored in a time when anger, superiority, fear, judgment and intolerance are the foundation of politics and faith for many; when the poor, sick and disadvantaged should be ashamed of themselves; when one's worth is determined primarily by business and financial success.

Jesus loved the sinners and reserved His greatest resentment for the Moneychangers and Pharisees. And yet so many today are new versions of the Pharisees in which the letter of scripture takes precedence over its intent.

Furthermore, Jesus' teachings have been diluted for centuries by the spread of hundreds of Christian denominations, each of which claims to have the best and truest interpretations.

What if we cleared away the muddied water, returned to our foundations and formed a church based solely upon the teachings and actions of Jesus, upon nothing more than the four gospels? The Old Testament would merely be a source of historical reference and would not be the law, unless directly endorsed by Jesus, such as the Ten Commandments. The church's purpose would be supporting gathering and discussion and not for mandating interpretations.

Wouldn't we be a better world if we truly lived lives of faith, charity, love, tolerance and joy? What if being Christ-like meant being like Christ and not just a slogan to justify superiority?

Richard S.

Welcome to RF.

What is the 'truest' interpretation, would you say?

 

[Dickster]

I wouldn't pretend to say. Perhaps the only interpretation we would begin with is that Jesus lived, and let members make their own interpretations based upon their readings. Too many old men hidden away in stone edifices have made those interpretations for us over the centuries.

 

[RedDragon94]

What if we cleared away the muddied water, returned to our foundations and formed a church based solely upon the teachings and actions of Jesus, upon nothing more than the four gospels?

Because the rest of the Scripture doesn't help us understand Jesus' words or the reason why he came? Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. (Matthew 5:17) Wouldn't it be good to know the law in order to know what Jesus fulfilled on our behalf? What if the Old Testament prophecies about Christ were never given to us? Jesus would be just some crazy loon out in the desert 2,000 years ago with absolutely no way to connect to me without what the Apostle John says in 1 John 2:2. Scripture interprets itself. We need the Old Testament and the Epistles to understand the whole story of God.

 

[Bunyip]

It seems that many Christians today, especially those who most loudly proclaim themselves to be Christian, have drifted far from Jesus. When they quote Scripture they usually quote the Old Testament or the often angry and superior Paul, and seldom the too soft and liberal Jesus. Just about any evil has been rationalized and justified, including slavery, genocide, polygamy and fascism, by cherry-picking verses from the Old Testament. The loving words of Jesus are conveniently ignored in a time when anger, superiority, fear, judgment and intolerance are the foundation of politics and faith for many; when the poor, sick and disadvantaged should be ashamed of themselves; when one's worth is determined primarily by business and financial success.

Jesus loved the sinners and reserved His greatest resentment for the Moneychangers and Pharisees. And yet so many today are new versions of the Pharisees in which the letter of scripture takes precedence over its intent.

Furthermore, Jesus' teachings have been diluted for centuries by the spread of hundreds of Christian denominations, each of which claims to have the best and truest interpretations.

What if we cleared away the muddied water, returned to our foundations and formed a church based solely upon the teachings and actions of Jesus, upon nothing more than the four gospels? The Old Testament would merely be a source of historical reference and would not be the law, unless directly endorsed by Jesus, such as the Ten Commandments. The church's purpose would be supporting gathering and discussion and not for mandating interpretations.

Wouldn't we be a better world if we truly lived lives of faith, charity, love, tolerance and joy? What if being Christ-like meant being like Christ and not just a slogan to justify superiority?

Richard S.

There are many sects that do focus on Jesus, we have a local minister and congregation here that is very much as you suggest. So I think that the form of Christianity you suggest does indeed exist.

 

[Desert Snake]

It seems that many Christians today, especially those who most loudly proclaim themselves to be Christian, have drifted far from Jesus. When they quote Scripture they usually quote the Old Testament or the often angry and superior Paul, and seldom the too soft and liberal Jesus. Just about any evil has been rationalized and justified, including slavery, genocide, polygamy and fascism, by cherry-picking verses from the Old Testament. The loving words of Jesus are conveniently ignored in a time when anger, superiority, fear, judgment and intolerance are the foundation of politics and faith for many; when the poor, sick and disadvantaged should be ashamed of themselves; when one's worth is determined primarily by business and financial success.

Jesus loved the sinners and reserved His greatest resentment for the Moneychangers and Pharisees. And yet so many today are new versions of the Pharisees in which the letter of scripture takes precedence over its intent.

Furthermore, Jesus' teachings have been diluted for centuries by the spread of hundreds of Christian denominations, each of which claims to have the best and truest interpretations.

What if we cleared away the muddied water, returned to our foundations and formed a church based solely upon the teachings and actions of Jesus, upon nothing more than the four gospels? The Old Testament would merely be a source of historical reference and would not be the law, unless directly endorsed by Jesus, such as the Ten Commandments. The church's purpose would be supporting gathering and discussion and not for mandating interpretations.

Wouldn't we be a better world if we truly lived lives of faith, charity, love, tolerance and joy? What if being Christ-like meant being like Christ and not just a slogan to justify superiority?

Richard S.

This is interesting, but it's called the new Testament, not the New Covenant.

 

[wizanda]

What if being Christ-like meant being like Christ and not just a slogan to justify superiority?

Very well said, agree with most of your sentiments.... Other than, lets only keep the synoptic gospels; a lot of problems within Christian theology, come from John being a different character and ideology.

 

[Dickster]

Because the rest of the Scripture doesn't help us understand Jesus' words or the reason why he came? Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. (Matthew 5:17) Wouldn't it be good to know the law in order to know what Jesus fulfilled on our behalf? What if the Old Testament prophecies about Christ were never given to us? Jesus would be just some crazy loon out in the desert 2,000 years ago with absolutely no way to connect to me without what the Apostle John says in 1 John 2:2. Scripture interprets itself. We need the Old Testament and the Epistles to understand the whole story of God.

I agree. While we do need the Old Testament for that historical reference and foundation, it should not be law. Cherry-picking some Old Testament laws to justify arguments while ignoring most others seems disingenuous.

 

[atpollard]

This is interesting, but it's called the new Testament, not the New Covenant.

Testament and Covenant both mean 'contract' or 'agreement' ... Like Savior and Christ both mean 'anointed'.

 

[atpollard]

It seems that many Christians today, especially those who most loudly proclaim themselves to be Christian, have drifted far from Jesus. When they quote Scripture they usually quote the Old Testament or the often angry and superior Paul, and seldom the too soft and liberal Jesus. Just about any evil has been rationalized and justified, including slavery, genocide, polygamy and fascism, by cherry-picking verses from the Old Testament. The loving words of Jesus are conveniently ignored in a time when anger, superiority, fear, judgment and intolerance are the foundation of politics and faith for many; when the poor, sick and disadvantaged should be ashamed of themselves; when one's worth is determined primarily by business and financial success.

Jesus loved the sinners and reserved His greatest resentment for the Moneychangers and Pharisees. And yet so many today are new versions of the Pharisees in which the letter of scripture takes precedence over its intent.

Furthermore, Jesus' teachings have been diluted for centuries by the spread of hundreds of Christian denominations, each of which claims to have the best and truest interpretations.

What if we cleared away the muddied water, returned to our foundations and formed a church based solely upon the teachings and actions of Jesus, upon nothing more than the four gospels? The Old Testament would merely be a source of historical reference and would not be the law, unless directly endorsed by Jesus, such as the Ten Commandments. The church's purpose would be supporting gathering and discussion and not for mandating interpretations.

Wouldn't we be a better world if we truly lived lives of faith, charity, love, tolerance and joy? What if being Christ-like meant being like Christ and not just a slogan to justify superiority?

Richard S.

Frankly, this is not what I have seen in my experience.
People like you describe have been in the minority.
Could you be more specific on how Christians should be handling people with real problems?
(The ones that I encounter tend to have no easy solutions.)

Some real problems that I have encountered within the last 6 months include ...

• a single mother (divorced) has a pregnant 11 year old daughter.
• A man who was working 60 hours per week to start a barbecue restaurant, just had his wife leave him and take their children (that mean the world to him)
• A recovering crack addict is struggling to avoid all of the old gang that want to pull him back to the old lifestyle.
• Another man is nearing the end of a three year struggle to get custody of his son from his ex-wife in New York. They have His lawyer, his wife's lawyer and a court appointed lawyer to represent the interests of the child. Even the child's lawyer recommends that the father be awarded custody since the mother is facing multiple investigations for child abandonment and neglect. The man has spent in excess of $70k in court, legal and transportation fees, but the court keeps postponing a decision because the mother does not show up.

Setting aside the OT and cherry-picking verses, and trying to turn WWJD into more than a slogan, what is your advice?
These are real people with real problems ... waiting for real solutions.
What advice can you offer?

Personally, I don't feel competent to even begin to fix these problems.
I would welcome some practical advice on what 'we Christians' should do.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

What if we cleared away the muddied water, returned to our foundations and formed a church based solely upon the teachings and actions of Jesus, upon nothing more than the four gospels?

Then maybe every Christian would believe everything Christ said instead of redefining or explaining away the things they don't agree with. That would bring all the denominations back to the one Church that He established, which is where He wants them to be: "And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd." (John 10:16)

The Old Testament would merely be a source of historical reference and would not be the law, unless directly endorsed by Jesus, such as the Ten Commandments.

But there's such a wealth of information in the Old Testament that directly links up with the New Testament.

 

[Dickster]

Then maybe every Christian would believe everything Christ said instead of redefining or explaining away the things they don't agree with. That would bring all the denominations back to the one Church that He established, which is where He wants them to be: "And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd." (John 10:16)


But there's such a wealth of information in the Old Testament that directly links up with the New Testament.

And the Old Testament would remain as a source of reference and a guide, but would not be the law. And Jesus' words and actions would always take precedence.

 

[Dickster]

Frankly, this is not what I have seen in my experience.
People like you describe have been in the minority.
Could you be more specific on how Christians should be handling people with real problems?
(The ones that I encounter tend to have no easy solutions.)

Some real problems that I have encountered within the last 6 months include ...

• a single mother (divorced) has a pregnant 11 year old daughter.
• A man who was working 60 hours per week to start a barbecue restaurant, just had his wife leave him and take their children (that mean the world to him)
• A recovering crack addict is struggling to avoid all of the old gang that want to pull him back to the old lifestyle.
• Another man is nearing the end of a three year struggle to get custody of his son from his ex-wife in New York. They have His lawyer, his wife's lawyer and a court appointed lawyer to represent the interests of the child. Even the child's lawyer recommends that the father be awarded custody since the mother is facing multiple investigations for child abandonment and neglect. The man has spent in excess of $70k in court, legal and transportation fees, but the court keeps postponing a decision because the mother does not show up.

Setting aside the OT and cherry-picking verses, and trying to turn WWJD into more than a slogan, what is your advice?
These are real people with real problems ... waiting for real solutions.
What advice can you offer?

Personally, I don't feel competent to even begin to fix these problems.
I would welcome some practical advice on what 'we Christians' should do.

The people I describe would not be in the minority if you include virtually all "Christian" politicians, possibly an oxymoron, who angrily quote the OT to justify their anger, fear and superiority.

As to your four examples, while I have no specific advice, each is a good example of when we, as Christian individuals and groups, can provide support and guidance without judgment. While we can't solve everyone's problems, perhaps it behooves each of us to help some. It would seem, then, that if each of us, or each of our families, "adopted" people in such situations financially and personally, together we could make a difference.

I'm sorry if I totally missed your point.

 

[Glaurung]

Jesus loved the sinners and reserved His greatest resentment for the Moneychangers and Pharisees. And yet so many today are new versions of the Pharisees in which the letter of scripture takes precedence over its intent.

This is true. However, whilst Jesus loved the sinner and emphasized the need for mercy, He was also quite clear in the importance of avoiding sin. We can't therefore fall into the error of moral relativism on the basis that we have no right to judge, but rather we should always be quick to mercy as Christ will be towards us. We are still under the obligation to strive for virtue and defend the moral imperatives laid down by sound Christian teaching. Christ took a definite stance against sin and we must do the same, provided of course that our strong stance does not compromise our compassion for those who sincerely repent.

Furthermore, Jesus' teachings have been diluted for centuries by the spread of hundreds of Christian denominations, each of which claims to have the best and truest interpretations.

I believe that the teachings of Christ are in fact still in their full expression. They are best expressed by those Churches which have maintained the teachings handed to them by the authority of the Apostolic succession. The problem began with the rejection of Sacred tradition by the Reformers during the Reformation, opening the way for the idea of personal interpretation of the Scriptures, which has lead to endless fragmentations within Protestantism because Protestantism at its core is relativistic.

What if we cleared away the muddied water, returned to our foundations and formed a church based solely upon the teachings and actions of Jesus, upon nothing more than the four gospels?

We have no right to remove anything from Scripture, which was codified infallibly by the authority of the Church. The foundations of historical Christian belief is the Sacred tradition of the Church, not the texts of the Gospels as revered as they may be.