Buddhism... why not?

[DDWW]

From everything that I have read and heard about Buddhism, it seems like a pretty great religion from my point of view. Buddhism seems to me simply to be a way of bettering yourself and living in a way that is happy and worry free! I'm not saying that being a Buddhist monk is the way that I would want to live but some of the main principles I strongly agree with and also seem to cross over into many of the other main religions. The main principles (The Five Precepts) are:-

[From Wikipedia]

To refrain from taking life (non-violence towards sentient life forms), or ahimsā
To refrain from taking that which is not given (not committing theft)
To refrain from sensual (including sexual) misconduct
To refrain from lying (speaking truth always)
To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness (specifically, drugs and alcohol)

These all seem like pretty reasonable things to live by. It also seems to me that Buddhism is an atheist religion in which worship of anyone isn't practiced and I've heard also that it is discouraged.

I simply wonder why there is such a small Buddhist following in the west. I would greatly appreciate any practicing Buddhists to give their experiences and some of the philosophies of the religion.

Cheers
-DDWW

 

[Gjallarhorn]

From everything that I have read and heard about Buddhism, it seems like a pretty great religion from my point of view. Buddhism seems to me simply to be a way of bettering yourself and living in a way that is happy and worry free! I'm not saying that being a Buddhist monk is the way that I would want to live but some of the main principles I strongly agree with and also seem to cross over into many of the other main religions. The main principles (The Five Precepts) are:-

[From Wikipedia]

To refrain from taking life (non-violence towards sentient life forms), or ahimsā
To refrain from taking that which is not given (not committing theft)
To refrain from sensual (including sexual) misconduct
To refrain from lying (speaking truth always)
To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness (specifically, drugs and alcohol)

These all seem like pretty reasonable things to live by. It also seems to me that Buddhism is an atheist religion in which worship of anyone isn't practiced and I've heard also that it is discouraged.

I simply wonder why there is such a small Buddhist following in the west. I would greatly appreciate any practicing Buddhists to give their experiences and some of the philosophies of the religion.

Cheers
-DDWW

Because it isn't what we were raised with. Simple as that. Many people never examine their "chosen" religion and just stay with what they were taught.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

From everything that I have read and heard about Buddhism, it seems like a pretty great religion from my point of view. Buddhism seems to me simply to be a way of bettering yourself and living in a way that is happy and worry free! I'm not saying that being a Buddhist monk is the way that I would want to live but some of the main principles I strongly agree with and also seem to cross over into many of the other main religions. The main principles (The Five Precepts) are:-

[From Wikipedia]

To refrain from taking life (non-violence towards sentient life forms), or ahimsā
To refrain from taking that which is not given (not committing theft)
To refrain from sensual (including sexual) misconduct
To refrain from lying (speaking truth always)
To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness (specifically, drugs and alcohol)

These all seem like pretty reasonable things to live by. It also seems to me that Buddhism is an atheist religion in which worship of anyone isn't practiced and I've heard also that it is discouraged.

I simply wonder why there is such a small Buddhist following in the west. I would greatly appreciate any practicing Buddhists to give their experiences and some of the philosophies of the religion.

Cheers
-DDWW

I think that's a pretty simplistic description of Buddhism. In a similar vein, you could say that Christianity is about "loving God and being nice to other people". I think that in both cases, the devil's in the details.

In practice, Buddhism can have some rather negative aspects to it. For instance, in many cases, "refraining from sexual misconduct" is taken as a prohibition on homosexuality.

Also, and this is just my personal opinion, I think that in some cases, the Four Noble Truths can lead to a detachment from the world. Personally, I'm not so sure that suffering is something to be avoided altogether. I think that suffering should certainly be minimized where possible, but at the same time, I think that a certain amount of suffering is a necessary side effect of going after worthwhile goals. IOW, if we eliminate all suffering, we're worse for it.

This may be a faulty interpretation on my part, but it almost seems to me that the Four Noble Truths suggest that we should avoid caring about other people and things. This is something that doesn't hold any appeal at all for me.

I recognize that I have attachments, and while some of them may be unhealthy, I think that many of them are good... and even if they bring me suffering, they also bring me joy and benefit. I have no interest in giving these ones up.

I'm fine with examining Buddhism and picking and choosing aspects of it to incorporate it into my life, but I don't think I'd ever want to be a full-out Buddhist. The only thing that would do it for me is if I became convinced that Buddhist belief was based in truth, but so far that hasn't happened.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Honestly, because the terms are vague and unpleasant to me.

Like anatta, for example. No-self. Somehow this no-self isn't eternal, doesn't reincarnate but somehow goes through a type of rebirth, and somehow one's prior negative karma catches up with one at birth even though there's no prior self and no current self.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Honestly, because the terms are vague and unpleasant to me.

Like anatta, for example. No-self. Somehow this no-self isn't eternal, doesn't reincarnate but somehow goes through a type of rebirth, and somehow one's prior negative karma catches up with one at birth even though there's no prior self and no current self.

You are not who you used to be, but you still have to deal with what you did in the past. Not that hard to understand.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

You are not who you used to be, but you still have to deal with what you did in the past. Not that hard to understand.

It is when there's no self to receive negative karma.

 

[YmirGF]

You are not who you used to be, but you still have to deal with what you did in the past. Not that hard to understand.

No, not hard to understand, but is it supposed to make sense? :flirt:

In regards to the OP, I can only echo 9-10ths_Penguin's comments. Why Buddhism? Why bother?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

It is when there's no self to receive negative karma.

No permanent self more like.

Buddhism denies the existence of a permanent or static entity that remains constant behind the changing bodily and non-bodily components of a living being.

Just as the body changes from moment to moment, so thoughts come and go; and according to the anattā doctrine, there is no permanent conscious substance that experiences these thoughts, as in Cartesianism: rather, conscious thoughts simply arise and perish with no "thinker" behind them.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatta#cite_note-8

There is something there which experiences/recieves, but it isn't permanent.

 

[Jose Fly]

To refrain from taking life (non-violence towards sentient life forms), or ahimsā

Depends on what you mean by "sentient". I "take life" every day when I eat meat. That's why I have canine teeth and a digestive system of an omnivore.

To refrain from taking that which is not given (not committing theft)
To refrain from sensual (including sexual) misconduct
To refrain from lying (speaking truth always)

No problems there.

To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness (specifically, drugs and alcohol)

What you might term "loss of mindfulness", others would call "altering of consciousness", which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've had significant personal revelations both while meditating and under the influence of intoxicants.

These all seem like pretty reasonable things to live by. It also seems to me that Buddhism is an atheist religion in which worship of anyone isn't practiced and I've heard also that it is discouraged.

I looked into it years ago and found some parts to be very helpful and have tried to adopt them into my life. Other parts I thought less of.

I simply wonder why there is such a small Buddhist following in the west.

Because we were settled and colonized by European Christians rather than far eastern Buddhists.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No problems there.

Really?

When they say "sexual immorality", they don't just mean things like adultery and rape.

Here's an expansion on what is meant by the third precept. Note the parts I've highlighted:

If one uses force, or if one uses money, or if one engages in deceptive seduction, or if one has a wife who has taken the precept, who is pregnant or who is nursing an infant, or if one engages in sexual activity involving an inappropriate orifice,-- if one transgresses in such ways, this constitutes sexual misconduct. All sorts of situations like these even extending to the giving of a flower garland to a courtesan as an indication of intent,-- if one transgresses in such ways, this constitutes sexual misconduct.

The Precept Against Sexual Misconduct

You really have no problem with a prohibition on sexual activity with your wife while she's pregnant or nursing? You have no problem with a prohibition on oral sex and most same-sex sexual activity (as hinted at in that bit about "an inappropriate orifice")?

 

[Jose Fly]

You really have no problem with a prohibition on sexual activity with your wife while she's pregnant or nursing? You have no problem with a prohibition on oral sex and most same-sex sexual activity (as hinted at in that bit about "an inappropriate orifice")?

Ah, didn't realize that. Yes, I have a problem with those prohibitions. Thanks for the info.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Really?

When they say "sexual immorality", they don't just mean things like adultery and rape.

Here's an expansion on what is meant by the third precept. Note the parts I've highlighted:


The Precept Against Sexual Misconduct

You really have no problem with a prohibition on sexual activity with your wife while she's pregnant or nursing? You have no problem with a prohibition on oral sex and most same-sex sexual activity (as hinted at in that bit about "an inappropriate orifice")?

As with many of the Buddha's sayings, he never elaborated, leaving others to fill in the blanks. I have read several versions of the sexual misconduct precept. Others including:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If we use trickery, emotional blackmail or force to compel someone to have sex with us, then this is sexual misconduct. Adultery is also a form of sexual misconduct because when we marry we promise our spouse that we will be loyal to them. When we commit adultery we break that promise and betray that trust. Sex should be an expression of love and intimacy between two people and when it is it contributes to our mental and emotional well-being.

The Third Precept says we should avoid sexual misconduct. What is Sexul misconduct?

and

[/FONT] Abandoning sensual misconduct, he abstains from sensual misconduct. He does not get sexually involved with those who are protected by their mothers, their fathers, their brothers, their sisters, their relatives, or their Dhamma; those with husbands, those who entail punishments, or even those crowned with flowers by another man.

Five Precepts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Buddhism revises their interpretations just like any religion with the progression of society.

 

[Engyo]

Really?

When they say "sexual immorality", they don't just mean things like adultery and rape.

Here's an expansion on what is meant by the third precept. Note the parts I've highlighted:


The Precept Against Sexual Misconduct

You really have no problem with a prohibition on sexual activity with your wife while she's pregnant or nursing? You have no problem with a prohibition on oral sex and most same-sex sexual activity (as hinted at in that bit about "an inappropriate orifice")?

Hi, Pengy -

This is all operating under the assumption that ALL Buddhist traditions and schools adhere to the interpretation of the Precept that you posted. I can say with certainty that not all of them do.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

No permanent self more like.
There is something there which experiences/recieves, but it isn't permanent.

But you permanently receive the effects of past actions springboarded into your next rebirth, even though there's no self to transition from one to another.

Makes utterly no sense to me but if someone else thinks it's great, go for it.

If I were going to be something similar to Buddhism, I'd go with Advaita Vedanta. I've heard it's like Buddhism but expanding outwards instead of inwards.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

But you permanently receive the effects of past actions springboarded into your next rebirth, even though there's no self to transition from one to another.

Makes utterly no sense to me but if someone else thinks it's great, go for it.

If I were going to be something similar to Buddhism, I'd go with Advaita Vedanta. I've heard it's like Buddhism but expanding outwards instead of inwards.

Cause leads to effect. Just because the effects are permanent doesn't mean the thing which receives the effect is permanent. You kick a door, the door receives the kick, but it may be broken in the process, becoming something new. You are just the result of cause and effect. Calling it "karma" leads people to believe it's a higher, more "spiritual" principle than it is. Same with rebirth. Everything is being reborn (changed) due to the karma (causation) imposed on it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Honestly, because the terms are vague and unpleasant to me.

Like anatta, for example. No-self. Somehow this no-self isn't eternal, doesn't reincarnate but somehow goes through a type of rebirth, and somehow one's prior negative karma catches up with one at birth even though there's no prior self and no current self.

That is because the notion of self is a functional illusion. We do individually die. But life goes on with different people. People ("selves") are not at all eternal, and we do not get to be reborn as individuals, because the very existence of individuals is an illusion in the first place.

Rebirth occurs, but it has no significant, meaningful ties to either previous, present or future individuals.

As for the precepts, they are not prohibitions, just advice.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hi, Pengy -

This is all operating under the assumption that ALL Buddhist traditions and schools adhere to the interpretation of the Precept that you posted. I can say with certainty that not all of them do.

Yeah - I guess I should've put a disclaimer on that. Most of my exposure to Buddhism has been from my brother- and sister-in-law, which I should realize is a pretty small sample and not representative of Buddhism in general.

I've seen a trend that bugs me: some Westerners talk about Buddhism (and other religions like Jainism) as some sort of benign, harmless thing. I think that the reality is much more complex than that, and that its lack of harmful influence in the West has more to do with it being (in the West, anyhow) a small minority religion without much influence anyhow than with Buddhism being inherently harmless.

In reality, I think that Buddhism is just as complex and varied as any other religion, and, depending on the Buddhist, Buddhist beliefs run the gamut from being generally positive to being very negative indeed.

 

[LuisDantas]

You are correct.

 

[painted wolf]

From everything that I have read and heard about Buddhism, it seems like a pretty great religion from my point of view. Buddhism seems to me simply to be a way of bettering yourself and living in a way that is happy and worry free!

You need to learn more about it then... If you are alive right now, you have done something to earn the pain and misery of another life. The only way to break the cycle of unending misery is to do as they say.

I'm not saying that being a Buddhist monk is the way that I would want to live but some of the main principles I strongly agree with and also seem to cross over into many of the other main religions.

Basic human morality is pretty basic... but the details are where you find the problems.

The main principles (The Five Precepts) are:-

[From Wikipedia]

To refrain from taking life (non-violence towards sentient life forms), or ahimsā

Who decides what is sentient?

To refrain from taking that which is not given (not committing theft)

That which is being abused doesn't deserve to be kept by the abuser.

To refrain from sensual (including sexual) misconduct

I have a very different cultural view of "misconduct".

To refrain from lying (speaking truth always)
To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness (specifically, drugs and alcohol)

These two are pretty mundane... though one could quibble about the nature of lies.

These all seem like pretty reasonable things to live by. It also seems to me that Buddhism is an atheist religion in which worship of anyone isn't practiced and I've heard also that it is discouraged.

Depends on the sect of Buddhism you are talking about, some do have gods.

I simply wonder why there is such a small Buddhist following in the west. I would greatly appreciate any practicing Buddhists to give their experiences and some of the philosophies of the religion.

Cheers
-DDWW

I don't know about others, but I'm not Buddhist because I already follow those precepts under my current faith. I also don't do reincarnation, or the idea that life is something bad.

wa:do

 

[Otherright]

From everything that I have read and heard about Buddhism, it seems like a pretty great religion from my point of view. Buddhism seems to me simply to be a way of bettering yourself and living in a way that is happy and worry free! I'm not saying that being a Buddhist monk is the way that I would want to live but some of the main principles I strongly agree with and also seem to cross over into many of the other main religions. The main principles (The Five Precepts) are:-

[From Wikipedia]

To refrain from taking life (non-violence towards sentient life forms), or ahimsā
To refrain from taking that which is not given (not committing theft)
To refrain from sensual (including sexual) misconduct
To refrain from lying (speaking truth always)
To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness (specifically, drugs and alcohol)

These all seem like pretty reasonable things to live by. It also seems to me that Buddhism is an atheist religion in which worship of anyone isn't practiced and I've heard also that it is discouraged.

I simply wonder why there is such a small Buddhist following in the west. I would greatly appreciate any practicing Buddhists to give their experiences and some of the philosophies of the religion.

Cheers
-DDWW

Why not indeed.

First the main principle you need to get your head around is the Four Noble Truths. These are the fundamental ideas on which all of Buddhas teachings are expounded.

Life is suffering.
Suffering is caused by attachment.
There is a path for the cessation of suffering.
That is the 8-fold path.

Then go on to the 8 fold path. Then learn the precepts.

But they aren't what you think they are at first glance. For instance sexual misconduct, includes the use of coerced or forced sex, sex with someone already spoken for, and sex with some who can not consent (animals, kids, senile elderly). It does not include homosexuality.

The most important thing to glean from buddhism, for me anyway, is that you take from it what you want, and leave the rest. If something doesn't adhere to your current state of logic, leave it alone for now, come back to it later once you've matured on your path.