But few dare call it apartheid ...

[Jayhawker Soule]

Today's NYT carries a long and painful article:

Roadblocked: In the occupied West Bank, Israelies zip along well-groomed roads designed
for their convenience. Palestinians are shunted onto convoluted routes dotted with checkpoints.​

Leviticus 19:33-34 comes to mind. What we see in Israel is not the defense of Israel but its betrayal.

 

[Jimmy]

Is Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah fighting Israel because of the human rights violation in Gaza and the theft of territory in the West Bank or are they using those things as a front to Spread Islamist views and control over all of Israel and the Jews? Do they truly want a respectful peace between the two peoples or is there something more sinister at play?

Also, do you think this is what Jews may believe and what is fueling a paranoia?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Today's NYT carries a long and painful article:

Roadblocked: In the occupied West Bank, Israelies zip along well-groomed roads designed
for their convenience. Palestinians are shunted onto convoluted routes dotted with checkpoints.​

Leviticus 19:33-34 comes to mind. What we see in Israel is not the defense of Israel but its betrayal.

Thank you for sharing this, and I'm glad the New York Times is shedding light on the reality that Palestinians have to deal with on a daily basis in the West Bank. I have friends there who have suffered under this status quo for years and seen some of their friends and family get subjected to arbitrary "administrative detention" (I know you know about it, but for anyone else who may not be familiar with the details of that situation: more info here, here, and here, among other examples), physical violence, raids on homes, and theft of belongings by raiding soldiers. I have been worried since even before the start of the war for their safety, especially after Netanyahu formed a far-right, expansionist government consisting of the likes of Ben-Gvir and Smotrich.

I hope that the recent ICJ ruling on the illegal occupation of the West Bank and the increasing awareness of these issues at least leads to action that changes the current situation for the better, although I'm not holding my breath given that there has only been escalation for over a year now.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah fighting Israel because of the human rights violation in Gaza and the theft of territory in the West Bank or are they using those things as a front to Spread Islamist views and control over all of Israel and the Jews? Do they truly want a respectful peace between the two peoples or is there something more sinister at play?

Also, do you think this is what Jews may believe and what is fueling a paranoia?

Get back to me when you want to address the content of the article rather than polluting it with some stupid rant about those seeking to "Spread Islamist views."

 

[Jimmy]

Get back to me when you want to address the content of the article rather than polluting it with some stupid rant about those seeking to "Spread Islamist views."

My inquiry is related to your OP. You don’t have to answer. No biggy.

 

[Jimmy]

Get back to me when you want to address the content of the article rather than polluting it with some stupid rant about those seeking to "Spread Islamist views."

Yes it is very unfortunate that the roads in the West Bank for the Palestinians aren’t as good as the Jews roads. But my questions still stand.

 

[jbg]

Thank you for sharing this, and I'm glad the New York Times is shedding light on the reality that Palestinians have to deal with on a daily basis in the West Bank. I have friends there who have suffered under this status quo for years and seen some of their friends and family get subjected to arbitrary "administrative detention" (I know you know about it, but for anyone else who may not be familiar with the details of that situation: more info here, here, and here, among other examples), physical violence, raids on homes, and theft of belongings by raiding soldiers. I have been worried since even before the start of the war for their safety, especially after Netanyahu formed a far-right, expansionist government consisting of the likes of Ben-Gvir and Smotrich.

I hope that the recent ICJ ruling on the illegal occupation of the West Bank and the increasing awareness of these issues at least leads to action that changes the current situation for the better, although I'm not holding my breath given that there has only been escalation for over a year now.

If the Palestinians keep fighting, what do they expect? Would the U.S., during the Civil War, have built interstate-quality highways for Confederate troops?

 

[Debater Slayer]

If the Palestinians keep fighting, what do they expect? Would the U.S., during the Civil War, have built interstate-quality highways for Confederate troops?

Arafat signed the Oslo Accords, which were one of many other clear indications that there were and are many Palestinians who believe a sovereign state of theirs could coexist with an Israeli one. Putting the West Bank under illegal occupation and martial law and mass-slaughtering Gazan civilians are surefire ways to prolong conflict and contribute to further fighting, because those are not the actions of a government that wants peace. Then there is the fact that many of those who lose loved ones or friends in conflicts end up looking for revenge and being thrown into the arms of radicalization, and that's not unique to any one conflict or region; history has many examples of it.

Comparing "the Palestinians" (emphasis on "the," not "some" or even "many") to Confederate troops seems to me both misplaced and simplistic. For one thing, Israel is far more powerful militarily, geopolitically, and economically, so this is not a conflict between equal or comparably powerful parties. For another thing, the vast majority of Palestinians are not fighting, nor are they even armed in the first place. Why are they being collectively put under martial law and illegal occupation?

Meanwhile, the Israeli government is annexing more and more of those Palestinians' land in the West Bank—against international law—and emboldening violent settlers against them:

Israel announces largest appropriation of state land in West Bank since Oslo Accords

'We are thwarting the danger of a Palestinian state,' declares Smotrich as Civil Administration also set to approve 6,000 new settlement housing units

www.timesofisrael.com

In fiery security meeting, Ben Gvir said to defend violent settlers as ‘sweet kids’

National security minister refuses to issue condemnation of recent rampages in Palestinian villages, as Gallant accuses him of paying 'lip service' to law and order

www.timesofisrael.com

Israel prevents Palestinians from defending themselves as it empowers the settlers

***

www.haaretz.com

Putting a stop to those policies might be a start toward at least showing some interest in pursuing peace.

 

[Watchmen]

I know I’m oversimplifying, but I really wish there was a Palestinian state with actual sovereign rights over their land.

 

[Alien826]

Today's NYT carries a long and painful article:

Roadblocked: In the occupied West Bank, Israelies zip along well-groomed roads designed
for their convenience. Palestinians are shunted onto convoluted routes dotted with checkpoints.​

Leviticus 19:33-34 comes to mind. What we see in Israel is not the defense of Israel but its betrayal.

You may be interested in this, Ta-Nehisi Coates interviewed by Fareed Zakaria on CNN. He's written a book called The Message. He compares the West Bank to the "Jim Crow" South.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/08/world/video/gps1006-coates-on-the-plight-of-palestinians

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

He compares the West Bank to the "Jim Crow" South.

It strikes me as a painfully apt comparison.