By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[YoursTrue]

The point is that Matthew was written after Mark and the original versions of Mark don't have the resurrection. That means the resurrection story is a later addition and NOT part of what actually happened. later followers did believe in it, often because of second-hand accounts.

This makes Matthew 28 suspect. The fact that Paul never met Jesus in life makes his claims about Jesus suspect, which makes the motivations of Acts suspect. That Paul won the debate about preaching to the Gentiles is clear, but it was also clearly a great change from what Jesus originally taught.

The book of Acts was written by followers of Paul, not the original followers of Jesus. So even by that time, the actual point of Jesus' preaching was distorted.

In Matthew, the spirit of God descended to Jesus at baptism, making him divine at that point. In Luke, he was divine from birth. By the gospel of John, he was divine even before the universe was made. Once again, if we look carefully, we can see the legend grow.

You might want to read Paul Ehrman's book 'How Jesus became God'. it is fascinating and by a true Biblical scholar.

Remember though that the term God can apply to men as well. Jesus quoted the Psalm which stated that.

By your definition of Christian. But, for example, the Nestorian Christians don’t accept the Nicene greed and Arians didn’t accept the Trinity. Christian’s don’t have to accept the Bible as literally true. Some accept it as metaphor. Some don’t accept Paul as authoritative.

And one point that is important for me is that there is no way to decide who is correct or even who is incorrect. That to me says that there is no truth in any of these views.

I wouldn't say so. As Jesus said, you must love YHWH your God with your whole heart, soul, and mind. OK, maybe I'm not using the exact words, but clearly God is going to take all this (each one's heart, mind and soul) into consideration in the judgment.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I find many of the attitudes I see expressed by those claiming to be Christian to be repellent and I don't see anything loving about the attitudes of some. I don't recall reading that Christ behaved the way I see sometimes.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

While I like Gandhi's quote, I like this quote by Brendan Manning even more: "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."

 

[2ndpillar]

I find many of the attitudes I see expressed by those claiming to be Christian to be repellent and I don't see anything loving about the attitudes of some. I don't recall reading that Christ behaved the way I see sometimes.

Yeshua was not pleased with the Pharisees, and made it known that he didn't like their leaven (doublemindedness and hypocrisy) and warned his followers to avoid that leaven. The "Christians" basically nail the testimony of Yeshua to the "cross" and follow the "Pharisee of Pharisees" down a broad path to destruction (Mt 7:12-15). It will not turn out well for the "many". They will all be judged, with no regard to what they believe. Judgment will be done according to deeds (Mt 25:45-46 & Rev 20:12).

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I seriously doubt anyone else who does not follow your particular brand of Christianity does either.

I'd say that you are correct in your assessment because there is a smorgasbord of Christian churches to choose from: Catholics, Messianics, Anglicans, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), and a wide variety of Protestants: Baptist (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mennonite, Mormon, Church of Christ, Seventh-day Adventist, The Assemblies of God, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, and hundreds of other Protestant churches. They adhere to different doctrines and biblical interpretations. There are numerous versions of the Bible (Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Protestant, which include a plethora of different English translations) for Christians to choose from as well. Nevertheless, Christians from different churches rarely agree on biblical interpretation, let alone on church dogmas like salvation, eternal life, a proper baptism, female pastors, the end times, and their ongoing disagreement over which Christians are true Christians and which are not (and the list goes on). And as if these topics weren't enough to keep them busy, they even argue about whether or not Jesus' mother was a virgin after she gave birth to him. They are so divided. Personally, I find it ironic that so many of them insist that Christianity is the only true religion in the world and that their God divinely inspired the Bible. In my opinion, their words do not align with their actions.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I'd say that you are correct in your assessment because there is a smorgasbord of Christian churches to choose from: Catholics, Messianics, Anglicans, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), and a wide variety of Protestants: Baptist (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mennonite, Mormon, Church of Christ, Seventh-day Adventist, The Assemblies of God, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, and hundreds of other Protestant churches. They adhere to different doctrines and biblical interpretations. There are numerous versions of the Bible (Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Protestant, which include a plethora of different English translations) for Christians to choose from as well. Nevertheless, Christians from different churches rarely agree on biblical interpretation, let alone on church dogmas like salvation, eternal life, a proper baptism, female pastors, the end times, and their ongoing disagreement over which Christians are true Christians and which are not (and the list goes on). And as if these topics weren't enough to keep them busy, they even argue about whether or not Jesus' mother was a virgin after she gave birth to him. Personally, I find it rather ironic that so many Christians insist that Christianity is the only true religion in the world and that their God divinely inspired the Bible. In my opinion, their words clearly don't align with their actions.

If a person claims to be Christian, who am I to dispute that. I'm not God. I don't pretend that I have divine power or speak for God. Anyone can claim they have some spiritual gift of discernment, but who can really know. I do know that we have learned a lot about the world around us and some of that contradicts certain interpretations leading to the obvious conclusion that those particular interpretations are incorrect or incomplete.

 

[Polymath257]

If a person doesn’t accept the Bible as the Word of God then no they aren’t believers, born again, part of the Body of Christ - Christian

Well, part of the point is that the texts of the Bible were chosen for political reasons in the 4th and 5th centuries. There were long standing traditions in the Christian community that rejected many of the books currently considered to be canonical. They accepted what *they* considered to be the 'Word of God', but that wasn't always the same as what ended up in the Bible.

The debates in the 3rd and 4th centuries over Christology had very little to do with any scriptures and everything to do with politics. Such doctrines as the divinity of Jesus were controversial even among Christians. I would also add that the literalism of fundamentalist Christianity is a modern reaction to the rise of reason and NOT at all founded in anything ancient.

I do have that authority given to me by God as His ambassador and accountable to Him for teaching what the Bible says, so if you or anyone believe I’m teaching a false teaching bring it up and use your Scripture reference. As far as taking offense to what you say or said no I don’t. Thanks for clearing up your position and what you meant. Over these platforms and text instead of face to face a lot gets
lost in communication.

It always amazes me how often people are so sure they have the 'authority' of God when they are usually just wrapping their own biases up in their interpretation of scripture.

You don’t have to see me as having authority, you didn’t appoint me, God did. I didn’t take this upon myself, He gave it to me.

Arrogant much?

”Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.“
‭‭II Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬-‭21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Love the propaganda.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Those that receive "eternal life" are those written in the book of life (Rev 20:15). With respect to Mt 25, it will not be those who didn't give sustenance to the poor (Mt 25:45-46), whereas the "righteous" will go into "eternal life". As for the difference between "righteousness" and "wickedness" (sinful behavior), that will not become apparent until the "end" (Malachi 3:17-18). Until the end, apparently the leaven of the Pharisee (hypocrisy & doublemindedness) will prevail.

So how does a persons name get written in the Book of Life according to the Bible, because you’re not very clear here.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Arrogant much?

Not really, I’m not stopping anyone from being appointed by God. That’s what I’m praying for:

”Then He said to them, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.“
‭‭Luke‬ ‭10‬:‭2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Polymath257]

If a person doesn’t accept the Bible as the Word of God then no they aren’t believers, born again, part of the Body of Christ - Christian

I'd point out that the literalism that is seen in some Christians today is a very recent interpretation that was not shared by those who chose the books of the Bible, who developed the basic doctrines of Christianity, and has no ancient justification. What it meant to be the 'Word of God' was that it was a good metaphor for life and the universe, but the literal meaning was usually seen as the least important part of the writings. Remember that the Bible wasn't actually assembled until about 400AD. When it talks about scripture in the Biblical writings, it does NOT mean today's Bible. At most, it means the (then) canonical Jewish writings.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I'd point out that the literalism that is seen in some Christians today is a very recent interpretation that was not shared by those who chose the books of the Bible, who developed the basic doctrines of Christianity, and has no ancient justification. What it meant to be the 'Word of God' was that it was a good metaphor for life and the universe, but the literal meaning was usually seen as the least important part of the writings. Remember that the Bible wasn't actually assembled until about 400AD. When it talks about scripture in the Biblical writings, it does NOT mean today's Bible. At most, it means the (then) canonical Jewish writings.

You’re entitled to your opinion

 

[ElishaElijah]

Love the propaganda.

I don’t see the Bible being propaganda…

 

[ElishaElijah]

As a Christian I believe this to be true, I said yes to God, He recieved me when I did.

“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”“
‭‭John‬ ‭6‬:‭37‬-‭40‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[ElishaElijah]

Well, part of the point is that the texts of the Bible were chosen for political reasons in the 4th and 5th centuries. There were long standing traditions in the Christian community that rejected many of the books currently considered to be canonical. They accepted what *they* considered to be the 'Word of God', but that wasn't always the same as what ended up in the Bible.

The debates in the 3rd and 4th centuries over Christology had very little to do with any scriptures and everything to do with politics. Such doctrines as the divinity of Jesus were controversial even among Christians. I would also add that the literalism of fundamentalist Christianity is a modern reaction to the rise of reason and NOT at all founded in anything ancient.

Some good points, are you talking about the Apocryphal books and stuff like that?

 

[YoursTrue]

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

While I like Gandhi's quote, I like this quote by Brendan Manning even more: "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."

It's possible that I agree. What though do you think might be the lifestyle that denies the Christ by his so-called followers/worshippers?

 

[ElishaElijah]

As a Christian I believe this to be true that the Holy
Spirit leads us into all Truth, speaks to us.

”“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.“
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭12‬-‭14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Dan From Smithville]

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

While I like Gandhi's quote, I like this quote by Brendan Manning even more: "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."

I'm betting that the lifestyle choice that will come up as the root cause of all of that denial is the acceptance of science or allegorical interpretation of the Bible. Or both.

No doubt we can all be saved by a mandated literal interpretation of scripture and rejection of all the accumulated knowledge of the last 1,000 years. Returning to a lifestyle modeled after nomadic tribesmen of 5,000 years ago.

 

[Polymath257]

You’re entitled to your opinion

And you to yours.

Now, to go being opinion to truth, what is the evidence? What is testable?

 

[Polymath257]

I don’t see the Bible being propaganda…

Then, I would suggest, you are missing a bit part of the Bible.

 

[Kenny]

How many errors of logic and history have you just breached? Paul wrote by way of the "holy spirit" by way of Paul saying so, as in his own witness, except in the case of his exclusion regarding his statements on women. Now according to the testimony of Yeshua and the Scripture, if one self-witnesses, their testimony is "not true" (John 5:31). The canon of your "inspired" Scripture, was done in 367 A.D. by the bishop Athanasius, a guy who was pro Trinitarian (a commonly held false doctrine) at the Council of Nicaea. The guy was jubilant over the painful death of Arius. As for those who follow the false gospel of grace/cross, which is those "who practice lawlessness", and who cast out demons and performed miracles, Yeshua will tell them, "I never knew you" (Mt 7:22-23). One other thing, among many, that Yeshua said, was if they say to you "He is in the wilderness", which Paul actually said, "do not believe them. (Mt 24:26).

John 5:31-47 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.

However, we do know that he wasn’t his own witness:

Galatians 2:9
and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.

Acts 13: 13 Now there were prophets and teachers at Antioch, in the church that was there: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 While they were serving the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set Barnabas and Saul apart for Me for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, when they had fasted, prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

2 Peter 3:15
and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,

 

[Kenny]

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

While I like Gandhi's quote, I like this quote by Brendan Manning even more: "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."

This is quite true. Many times it is Christians themselves that leave a bad taste in people’s mouths. I also know that there are wolves in sheep clothing masquerading as Christians which most people don’t realize

It is no small miracle, IMV, that the Gospel continues to have an impact in spite of what Christians do.

That being said, I also find a ton of Christians that live the lifestyle, show the love by word and deed.