By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[YoursTrue]

My fault that I didn't specify goals I guess.



Nature is wondrous but I don't get the relevance.

The relevance is that nature is wondrous, I am pretty sure that science will never figure out all there is to determine that evolution from some presently unknown start formed life as we know it. That is my inclination. I tend to believe it. If a survey were to be taken, I'd be among those who say scientists will never establish that evolution from some unknown beginning is how life came about.

 

[John53]

People proselytize when they insist there is no God necessary as creator, that the entire process of life comes from...maybe a spaceship depositing matter on the earth and going from there to... evolution. Or maybe not aliens depositing matter on the earth. Maybe some other occurrence.

The relevance is that nature is wondrous, I am pretty sure that science will never figure out all there is to determine that evolution from some presently unknown start formed life as we know it. That is my inclination. I tend to believe it. If a survey were to be taken, I'd be among those who say scientists will never establish that evolution from some unknown beginning is how life came about.

I have no idea what you are trying to communicate.

 

[YoursTrue]

I have no idea what you are trying to communicate.

ok.

 

[walt]

So no reliable means to determine truth.

You find your sources reliable, don't you?

I find my sources reliable also, words in the Bible. I appreciate your viewpoint very much. Thanks. Everybody's comments motivates me to learn more about things.

Berean Standard Bible
Jesus answered, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ -Matthew 19:4

Genesis 1:25-31; Genesis 1:27, 5:2

 

[walt]

Peace on Earth—How Will It Come? Micah 4:3; Psalm 46:9; Luke 2:14; Daniel 2:44, 7:15; Isaiah 2:3, 4; Matthew 5:9; Hebrews 12:14​

 

[F1fan]

You find your sources reliable, don't you?

Sources that I use ARE reliable. There are standards for reliability that any person can use to determine what is a good source. These tools tend to come from a good education.

I find my sources reliable also, words in the Bible. I appreciate your viewpoint very much. Thanks. Everybody's comments motivates me to learn more about things.

I'm not sure what you mean by reliable where it comes to the Bible. It is not a factual book, and has many implausible and untrue stories. The only level of reliability could come from how the stories are interpreted, but then again, there's no standard for a correct interpretation. Just look at how many Christian sects disagree with what it means.

Berean Standard Bible
Jesus answered, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ -Matthew 19:4

Genesis 1:25-31; Genesis 1:27, 5:2

Genesis isn't factual.

 

[F1fan]

View attachment 98214

Because the ancestors of homo sapiens and neanderthals lived in a large region, and these species evolved gradually in a linear way. Species don't always branch which requires independent populations where both survive. These species evolved because of the stressors in the environment and the usual mechanisms that are selected in reproduction. You clearly suffer from a lack of basic education. These are taught in middle and high school science classes.

You are taking time to look up this disinformation from creationist sources, but not looking up knowledge from reputable sources. That betrays your insincere motive. You have already adopted the fraud of creationism (which is a Christian movement) and have no interest in the truth of what science reveals about the universe.

 

[walt]

Because the ancestors of homo sapiens and neanderthals lived in a large region, and these species evolved gradually in a linear way. Species don't always branch which requires independent populations where both survive. These species evolved because of the stressors in the environment and the usual mechanisms that are selected in reproduction. You clearly suffer from a lack of basic education. These are taught in middle and high school science classes.

You are taking time to look up this disinformation from creationist sources, but not looking up knowledge from reputable sources. That betrays your insincere motive. You have already adopted the fraud of creationism (which is a Christian movement) and have no interest in the truth of what science reveals about the universe.

Sorry I just found out from another thread, that evolution doesn't use monkeys, even though the internet is full of them turning into humans.

 

[F1fan]

Sorry I just found out from another thread, that evolution doesn't use monkeys, even though the internet is full of them turning into humans.

Why not just learn what experts in science have discovered?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry I just found out from another thread, that evolution doesn't use monkeys, even though the internet is full of them turning into humans.

By cladistics you still are a monkey. Here is why your post makes not sense. You just did the same as saying:

"even though the internet is full of stories of German Shepherds turning into dogs".

Or:

"even though the internet is full of stories of Mallards turning into ducks."

We never stopped being apes. We never stopped being monkeys. There is no "change of kind" in evolution.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You find your sources reliable, don't you?

I find my sources reliable also, words in the Bible. I appreciate your viewpoint very much. Thanks. Everybody's comments motivates me to learn more about things.

Berean Standard Bible
Jesus answered, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ -Matthew 19:4

Genesis 1:25-31; Genesis 1:27, 5:2

Then you do not know how to test the Bible.

 

[walt]

Sources that I use ARE reliable. There are standards for reliability that any person can use to determine what is a good source. These tools tend to come from a good education.

Sounds good, my education helps me look to the scriptures for advise.

I'm not sure what you mean by reliable where it comes to the Bible. It is not a factual book, and has many implausible and untrue stories. The only level of reliability could come from how the stories are interpreted, but then again, there's no standard for a correct interpretation. Just look at how many Christian sects disagree with what it means.

Yes people disagree, but I find good information in the Bible.

Genesis isn't factual.

Jesus and Bible writers refer to Genesis, I consider all the scriptures useful. 2nd Timothy 3:16-17

Because the ancestors of homo sapiens and neanderthals lived in a large region, and these species evolved gradually in a linear way. Species don't always branch which requires independent populations where both survive. These species evolved because of the stressors in the environment and the usual mechanisms that are selected in reproduction. You clearly suffer from a lack of basic education. These are taught in middle and high school science classes.

Thank you for this information.

That betrays your insincere motive. You have already adopted the fraud of creationism (which is a Christian movement) and have no interest in the truth of what science reveals about the universe.

You're saying I have insincere motive, and I have adopted fraud... Yet I say none of that about you! I respect your views and information.

I try not to cal anyone any names.

 

[walt]

Why not just learn what experts in science have discovered?

I consider God's word the Bible expert advice, words from an expert.

Thank you for all your research and information you have learned, I appreciate every word.

 

[walt]

We never stopped being apes. We never stopped being monkeys. There is no "change of kind" in evolution.

Either way the whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

Here is why your post makes not sense.

Okay, I will try to make better sense as I go, Thanks.

Then you do not know how to test the Bible.

I actually have a lot of things I do to test the Bible. How would you test the Bible?

I appreciate all your words

 

[F1fan]

Sounds good, my education helps me look to the scriptures for advise.

Genesis gives advice for how to treat slaves. This is one reason why Christians owed slaves, and why the Civil War had to resolve this crime against humanity. So the advice might be immoral unless you already have a moral sense as a human being and know what NOT to follow in the Bible.

Yes people disagree, but I find good information in the Bible.

And if you are wise enough to know what is good advice in the Bible you wouldn't need the Bible. Notice how many moral people there are in the wolrd that don't use the Bible.

Jesus and Bible writers refer to Genesis, I consider all the scriptures useful. 2nd Timothy 3:16-17

Yeah, people from 2000 years ago. We are in the 21st century have massive amounts of knowledge they didn't.

You're saying I have insincere motive, and I have adopted fraud... Yet I say none of that about you! I respect your views and information.

I know better than to adopt fraud due to social influence. You have. It's not an insult, it is an observation that you should be aware of so you can better educate yourself and make more informed judgments.

I consider God's word the Bible expert advice, words from an expert.

Who told you that, and why did you believe them?

If you study the Bible from the perspective of 21t century thinkers you will find what Christians claim about their interpretation of the Bible is highly flawed and inconsistent with reality.

Thank you for all your research and information you have learned, I appreciate every word.

If you want to be a seeker of truth you need to be willing to let go false beliefs. It takes courage, but then that is what life lessons provide.

 

[walt]

Genesis gives advice for how to treat slaves.

Yes and more..

Notice how many moral people there are in the wolrd that don't use the Bible.

Good point.

Yeah, people from 2000 years ago. We are in the 21st century have massive amounts of knowledge they didn't.

True.

I know better than to adopt fraud due to social influence. You have. It's not an insult, it is an observation that you should be aware of so you can better educate yourself and make more informed judgments.

I try not to judge, I just share what I've learned in the Bible, the words may help someone?

Who told you that, and why did you believe them?

I told myself the Bible is expert advice, and I believe myself sometimes.

If you want to be a seeker of truth you need to be willing to let go false beliefs. It takes courage, but then that is what life lessons provide.

Yes I want to seek truth, I read the words of Jesus, I let him do all the talking, His words give me advice, any religion may say this or that, I listen to the very words of Christ Jesus, and I read what the apostles say that agrees with what Jesus already said, I look for harmony between Jesus words, the apostles words and what Jesus followers believed. I try to find 100% harmony if possible.

It's not easy at first, but it gets easier and easier every time you do it.

 

[walt]

Genesis gives advice for how to treat slaves. This is one reason why Christians owed slaves, and why the Civil War had to resolve this crime against humanity. So the advice might be immoral unless you already have a moral sense as a human being and know what NOT to follow in the Bible.

And if you are wise enough to know what is good advice in the Bible you wouldn't need the Bible. Notice how many moral people there are in the wolrd that don't use the Bible.

Yeah, people from 2000 years ago. We are in the 21st century have massive amounts of knowledge they didn't.

I know better than to adopt fraud due to social influence. You have. It's not an insult, it is an observation that you should be aware of so you can better educate yourself and make more informed judgments.


Who told you that, and why did you believe them?

If you study the Bible from the perspective of 21t century thinkers you will find what Christians claim about their interpretation of the Bible is highly flawed and inconsistent with reality.

If you want to be a seeker of truth you need to be willing to let go false beliefs. It takes courage, but then that is what life lessons provide.

Thanks for all those words, but don't you feel I already knew that information, I am a grown adult? It's too bad we can't just voice what we believe to be true? What makes more sense? And just Leave it at that!

But we have to pick part each other's words, I think everybody knows the ABC's of obvious reasonable thinking? I don't see the value of picking part each other's words, I am guilty of it also.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Either way the whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

Why not? Have you even read the Genesis myths? Do you think that those make any "sense" at all?

Okay, I will try to make better sense as I go, Thanks.

It will help if you try to understand how you went wrong.

I actually have a lot of things I do to test the Bible. How would you test the Bible?

I would test the various stories in the Bible scientifically. For example the evidence against the Flood of Noah is so strong that one is screaming that God is a liar if one insists that they are literally true. Some parts of the Bible may work as morality tales. They very often do not work as reality.

Please give me one way that you would test the Bible. I can probably explain to you why it is or is not a valid test.

I appreciate all your words

Thank you. And so far you appear to be trying As long as one can be honest with oneself one should be able to learn.

 

[F1fan]

Thanks for all those words, but don't you feel I already knew that information, I am a grown adult?

I’m going based on what you are saying and you indicate that you lack basic science knowledge, and have been badly influenced by creationism. My feelings are irrelevant.

It's too bad we can't just voice what we believe to be true? What makes more sense? And just Leave it at that!

Belief is what a mind judges true. Ideally minds would be well educated on critical thought and logic, but few people are. Many end up believing false ideas and most are harmless.

But ponder this. A friend of yours is murdered and due to some weak circumstantial evidence you are arrested and tried. You are innocent but the jury feels you are guilty. The evidence is weak but they feel you are guilty and decide to send you to prison for 25 years to life.

Are you going to accept their judgment based on weak evidence and feelings?

But we have to pick part each other's words, I think everybody knows the ABC's of obvious reasonable thinking? I don't see the value of picking part each other's words, I am guilty of it also.

That’s debate. These platforms give us opportunities to learn skills and knowledge, and allow us to question our beliefs in ways we may not do ourselves. Those most dead set on what they believe will find debate stressful.

 

[walt]

Why not? Have you even read the Genesis myths? Do you think that those make any "sense" at all?


It will help if you try to understand how you went wrong.


I would test the various stories in the Bible scientifically. For example the evidence against the Flood of Noah is so strong that one is screaming that God is a liar if one insists that they are literally true. Some parts of the Bible may work as morality tales. They very often do not work as reality.

Please give me one way that you would test the Bible. I can probably explain to you why it is or is not a valid test.

Thank you. And so far you appear to be trying As long as one can be honest with oneself one should be able to learn.

ok................................I will keep all your words in mind thank you.