Can an atheist believe in God?

[McBell]

I guess this is the part where you realize you have no actual counterarguments, so you resort to "Nuh uh!". The bottom line is an atheist by definition does not believe in God. If you have something more than "nuh uh!", feel free to reply. Otherwise, maybe don't.

At this point it would be advisable for them to stop before they have swallowed both feet....

 

[Jagella]

I guess this is the part where you realize you have no actual counterarguments, so you resort to "Nuh uh!". The bottom line is an atheist by definition does not believe in God. If you have something more than "nuh uh!", feel free to reply. Otherwise, maybe don't.

You kept asserting "Uh huh" without a shred of evidence to back it up. In such cases "nuh uh" is quite adequate to counter.

 

[Jagella]

Can an atheist believe in God?​

LOL nope by definition!

In which holy book of atheism can we find this sacred definition?

 

[McBell]

In which holy book of atheism can we find this sacred definition?

Wait...
You do not know what a dictionary is?

 

[Magic Man]

You kept asserting "Uh huh" without a shred of evidence to back it up. In such cases "nuh uh" is quite adequate to counter.

No, I keep asserting facts. The definition is the only evidence needed, and that has been provided. So, you'll have to come up with a little more than "nuh uh" to try to counter the fact that the actual definition of the word proves you wrong.

 

[Eddi]

In which holy book of atheism can we find this sacred definition?

This makes no sense

 

[PureX]

"It can not possibly be because I am wrong.
It HAS to be because everyone else is wrong"​

When you don't read to understand, but only read to argue and negate, you can't gain any information. So you think there is none to b gained, and you stay stupid.

That's up to you.

 

[McBell]

When you don't read to understand, but only read to argue and negate, you can't gain any information. So you think there is none. And you stay stupid.

That's up to you.

It is interesting how you are able to give advice that is actually good and worth while, but at the same time completely unable to take said advice yourself....

 

[PureX]

It is interesting how you are able to give advice that is actually good and worth while, but at the same time completely unable to take said advice yourself....

I explained my position sufficiently. But some couldn't see it because they were intent only on negating it. That's not my problem to resolve. Nor is it any failure on my part.

 

[McBell]

I explained my position sufficiently. But some couldn't see it because they were intent only on negating it. That's not my problem to resolve. Nor is it any failure on my part.

You honestly believe that when no one who hears you agrees with what you are saying that is not YOU who is the problem?

This basically just supports post number 49...
I wonder if that is what you were trying to do

 

[Jagella]

Jagella:
In which holy book of atheism can we find this sacred definition?

This makes no sense

Have you not read the pronouncements written by the atheist-prophets on this thread revealing to us the sacred dogma that a true atheist does not and cannot believe in God? So it is posted, so it must be believed!

Seriously, it just goes to show that atheists can be every bit as dogmatic as Christians are asserting supposed truths to be taken without reason or evidence.

 

[PureX]

You honestly believe that when no one who hears you agrees with what you are saying that is not YOU who is the problem?

This basically just supports post number 49...
I wonder if that is what you were trying to do

Lots of people understand and appreciate what I post. There's only a few that constantly want to fight about it. And so can't be bothered to try and understand. That's not my problem, and it's no endictment of my posts. I am happy and able to explain to anyone that is honestly interested. But you and your cohorts are not interested. You only read to argue and reject. Not to understand. And so you understand nothing and spew insults instead.

Not my problem.

 

[I Am Hugh]

No, I said people believe in God because of religion. I didn't say all religions have the same god.

Yeah, I know. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Religion or God. Was God created for religion or religion created for God. That sort of thing. I got that. The point being half of them don't have any gods. At least not in the occidental sense. Anything and anyone can be a god. Buddha allegedly said there was no God and if there was, he wouldn't be concerned with the workings of man. But it can accurately be said Buddha was a god.

No, they're not. They're evidence of humans' belief in gods.

Pay attention. A god is anything or anyone that is venerated. Being a god only means that one thing. It is dependent upon human creation. If humans don't venerate the person or thing it isn't a god. It doesn't matter if it's just a piece of wood or stone or if it is a supernatural being that created the universe. Your objection is only sociopolitical. Not theological.

Nope. "God" means an intelligent being that created everything.

No, it doesn't, or God being the intelligent being that created everything wouldn't have demanded no other gods come before him. How many of them could have created everything?

There are other meanings, but that's the most common and popular,

That's only because people are stupid.

and the most useful for this discussion. There is no definition of "mighty/venerated". Again, that would include parents, leaders and many other regular humans.

Anything or anyone.

No, they're not. A deistic god is not. Neither is a pantheistic one.

Deism and pantheism are theisms, as is atheism. Saying God or gods don't exist is a theistic statement.

That sure was a lot of words to try to make yourself feel superior, while only really showing that you have nothing of value to add.

You don't know me very well; you only demonstrate an inferiority complex. I do not see myself as superior. I'm an idiot. Ask anyone who knows me.

I posted the definitions of God. If you want to use a different definition, don't conflate it with the main ones. If you want to pretend you're cool and superior, please just go elsewhere.

Oxford Dictionary definition of God:
1. In Christianity and other monotheistic religions, the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2. In certain other religions, a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity; an image, idol, animal, or other object worshiped as divine or symbolizing a god; used as a conventional personification of fate.
3. An adored, admired, or influential person; a thing accorded the supreme importance appropriate to a god.
4. Informal: the gallery in a theater.

These aren't really definitions, they're examples.

Atheism: Desktop Mobile

 

[Magic Man]

Yeah, I know. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Religion or God. Was God created for religion or religion created for God. That sort of thing. I got that. The point being half of them don't have any gods. At least not in the occidental sense. Anything and anyone can be a god. Buddha allegedly said there was no God and if there was, he wouldn't be concerned with the workings of man. But it can accurately be said Buddha was a god.

None of that changes that people believe in God because of religion.

Pay attention. A god is anything or anyone that is venerated.

Pay attention. No, it's not. That would broaden the definition of "god" to the point of making it meaningless and useless.

Being a god only means that one thing. It is dependent upon human creation. If humans don't venerate the person or thing it isn't a god. It doesn't matter if it's just a piece of wood or stone or if it is a supernatural being that created the universe. Your objection is only sociopolitical. Not theological.

Nope. It also has to be an intelligent being that either created the universe or at least has vast powers over it.

No, it doesn't, or God being the intelligent being that created everything wouldn't have demanded no other gods come before him. How many of them could have created everything?

1) The people he was talking to could have believed in other gods who created everything.

2) Technically a god doesn't have to have created everything, but that's the most common one, and the one we're concerned with here. It at least has to be a being with a lot of superhuman power.

That's only because people are stupid.

Anything or anyone.


Deism and pantheism are theisms, as is atheism. Saying God or gods don't exist is a theistic statement.

In a manner of speaking, but thematically they are separate from theism. A deistic god is very different from a theistic one, and they are very different from a pantheistic one.

You don't know me very well; you only demonstrate an inferiority complex. I do not see myself as superior. I'm an idiot. Ask anyone who knows me.

Nope. You said:

"You just don't understand what god and religion are. You don't see even the remotest possibility that you have gods and religions. I call that, from the Latin, Imatio Dei, Imitation of God. You don't really object to God, you only imitate God. You don't believe in God you are God."

Those are comments from someone talking down to someone else, which means they think they are superior.

Oxford Dictionary definition of God:
1. In Christianity and other monotheistic religions, the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2. In certain other religions, a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity; an image, idol, animal, or other object worshiped as divine or symbolizing a god; used as a conventional personification of fate.
3. An adored, admired, or influential person; a thing accorded the supreme importance appropriate to a god.
4. Informal: the gallery in a theater.

These aren't really definitions, they're examples.

Atheism: Desktop Mobile

Thank you for more evidence for my point. So, now that you know the different ones, remember not to conflate them all as if they're the same. If I say "I listen to rock", I mean rock music. I'm not sitting there listening to a stone.

 

[I Am Hugh]

None of that changes that people believe in God because of religion.

Okay, elaborate? How do people believe in God because of religion? What exactly does that mean? If there were no religion there would be no belief in God? If there were no God there would be no belief in religion? How does it work?

Pay attention. No, it's not. That would broaden the definition of "god" to the point of making it meaningless and useless.

Anything and anyone can be a god (venerated). Anything and anyone can be loved or hated. Your logic comes from the typical atheist/theist error that God means a specific God or god concept. It's a limited worldview. Not at all accurate.

Nope. It also has to be an intelligent being that either created the universe or at least has vast powers over it.

Eric Clapton is God. Kim Jong-un is a god. Frodo is a god. Moses was God to Pharaoh and Aaron, the judges of Israel were gods. God is just an English word that was used by the Pagans long before it was adopted by the Christian missionaries. Do some research. The word means to pour, libate.

1) The people he was talking to could have believed in other gods who created everything.

True. Good point.

2) Technically a god doesn't have to have created everything, but that's the most common one, and the one we're concerned with here. It at least has to be a being with a lot of superhuman power.

Would you say no gods exist?

In a manner of speaking, but thematically they are separate from theism. A deistic god is very different from a theistic one, and they are very different from a pantheistic one.

Nope. You said:

"You just don't understand what god and religion are. You don't see even the remotest possibility that you have gods and religions. I call that, from the Latin, Imatio Dei, Imitation of God. You don't really object to God, you only imitate God. You don't believe in God you are God."

Those are comments from someone talking down to someone else, which means they think they are superior.

No, they are comments from someone who thinks that fundamentalist militant atheists don't have an objection to God as it would appear, they only want to be God. They reject "God" because they are their own God. I, for example, am a humble servant of God, Jehovah.

Thank you for more evidence for my point.

Any time, buddy. You just ask.

So, now that you know the different ones, remember not to conflate them all as if they're the same. If I say "I listen to rock", I mean rock music. I'm not sitting there listening to a stone.

Right. And you wouldn't say rock or rocks don't exist. You wouldn't conflate one being an exclusive application. Eric Clapton is God doesn't mean Eric Clapton created everything.

 

[Magic Man]

Okay, elaborate? How do people believe in God because of religion? What exactly does that mean? If there were no religion there would be no belief in God? If there were no God there would be no belief in religion? How does it work?

Yes, religion is what teaches people to believe in God.

Anything and anyone can be a god (venerated). Anything and anyone can be loved or hated. Your logic comes from the typical atheist/theist error that God means a specific God or god concept. It's a limited worldview. Not at all accurate.

Nope. A god is a very specific thing. You're going to have a really hard time trying to discuss god, if your definition is "anything that is venerated".

Eric Clapton is God. Kim Jong-un is a god. Frodo is a god. Moses was God to Pharaoh and Aaron, the judges of Israel were gods. God is just an English word that was used by the Pagans long before it was adopted by the Christian missionaries. Do some research. The word means to pour, libate.

Nope. Do some research. A god is not simply a human being. A god has to be much, much more than that. I'm really not even sure why you're trying to make such a nonsensical argument.

True. Good point.


Would you say no gods exist?

To be precise, I would say no theistic gods exist.

No,

Yes.

they are comments from someone who thinks that fundamentalist militant atheists don't have an objection to God as it would appear, they only want to be God.

Right, so your answer is "No, yes". Also, there's no such thing as a "fundamentalist militant atheist" or an atheist who wants to be God. But the fact that you use such terms and claims says a lot.

They reject "God" because they are their own God. I, for example, am a humble servant of God, Jehovah.

Nope. I accept the fact that God doesn't exist because that's what all the evidence points to. Your ridiculous claim that we are our own god makes sense in light of your second sentence here.

Any time, buddy. You just ask.


Right. And you wouldn't say rock or rocks don't exist. You wouldn't conflate one being an exclusive application. Eric Clapton is God doesn't mean Eric Clapton created everything.

Of course I wouldn't say rock or rocks don't exist, because they do. That has nothing to do with anything. You don't seem to understand the point or the word "conflate". The point is that "God" can be used multiple ways. When having a discussion, it's helpful not to conflate them all, as if it means all of them simultaneously. We're talking about God here. Not some metaphorical usage, like "Eric Clapton is a rock god". You just said it yourself. Saying he's a god doesn't mean he created everything. Because it's a separate definition with a separate use, and therefore that usage is not relevant to our conversation.

 

[I Am Hugh]

Yes, religion is what teaches people to believe in God.

Which religion? Religion in general? Atheistic religion? Buddhism? Confucianism? Taoism? Shinto? Never really study much religion, have you? I've studied them all and I disagree.

Nope. A god is a very specific thing.

No. Not other than venerated.

You're going to have a really hard time trying to discuss god, if your definition is "anything that is venerated".

That I agree with. The difficulty is due to ideology and error. We've covered that. People are idiots. I'm a person. If I wasn't an idiot, I wouldn't waste my time arguing about gods. Especially with people who think they know what they are talking about. You know what I mean? You ever do that? Seen any of that sort of thing?

Nope. Do some research. A god is not simply a human being. A god has to be much, much more than that. I'm really not even sure why you're trying to make such a nonsensical argument.

I've just named half a dozen human gods. Eric Clapton, Kim Jong-un, Moses, judges of Israel, Jesus Christ.

To be precise, I would say no theistic gods exist.

Only atheistic gods? I say both. 1. A god doesn't have to exist to the believer. Example: Amaterasu. 2. A God or gods only becomes God or god when worshipped. Venerated. Respected. 3. If the worship stops, they stop being a god. No matter if they had or had not created anything. All gods are theistic, whether atheistic or theistic. That is the very definition of theist, theism, theistic. Oxford: relating to or characterized by belief in the existence of a god or gods.

Also, there's no such thing as a "fundamentalist militant atheist" or an atheist who wants to be God. But the fact that you use such terms and claims says a lot.

Oh, it says a lot. Wow. A lot, huh. That is impressive. Like blah, blah, blah, is a lot? I know, I know. I think I'm superior. Fundamentalist (a person who holds those firm, often extreme, beliefs) militant (combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods) atheist (allegedly without gods) are a very small minority. The average atheist is apathetic about God and religion. They don't care. They think it silly so why would they care? The fundi militant atheist seems more common only because they are outspoken, public.

Nope. I accept the fact that God doesn't exist because that's what all the evidence points to.

There is no such evidence. Fundi atheists always say that because they are narcissistic know it alls who assume everyone else is as dumb as they are.

Your ridiculous claim that we are our own god makes sense in light of your second sentence here.

How so? I didn't say we are our own god, I said we can be. Anything can be.

Of course I wouldn't say rock or rocks don't exist, because they do.

So do gods. Kim Jong-un, Eric Clapton, Frodo. We keep circling back to that.

That has nothing to do with anything. You don't seem to understand the point or the word "conflate". The point is that "God" can be used multiple ways. When having a discussion, it's helpful not to conflate them all, as if it means all of them simultaneously. We're talking about God here. Not some metaphorical usage, like "Eric Clapton is a rock god". You just said it yourself. Saying he's a god doesn't mean he created everything. Because it's a separate definition with a separate use, and therefore that usage is not relevant to our conversation.

A god means venerated. Nothing more. You find a list of gods, like this one, and check off which ones are venerated. All of them. Then check off the ones that created everything. How many checks you got? Your world view is blinded by jealousy. That's all.

 

[Magic Man]

Which religion? Religion in general? Atheistic religion? Buddhism? Confucianism? Taoism? Shinto? Never really study much religion, have you? I've studied them all and I disagree.

I've studied plenty. I'm obviously referring to religions that believe in God. I have no idea why you think it's relevant to bring up ones that don't. Yes, some religions don't have theistic gods. That isn't our concern here.

No. Not other than venerated.

Yup. You're going to have an incredibly tough time communicating with such broad inaccurate definitions.

That I agree with. The difficulty is due to ideology and error. We've covered that. People are idiots. I'm a person. If I wasn't an idiot, I wouldn't waste my time arguing about gods. Especially with people who think they know what they are talking about. You know what I mean? You ever do that? Seen any of that sort of thing?



I've just named half a dozen human gods. Eric Clapton, Kim Jong-un, Moses, judges of Israel, Jesus Christ.

They're not gods.

Only atheistic gods?

There's no such thing.

I say both. 1. A god doesn't have to exist to the believer. Example: Amaterasu. 2. A God or gods only becomes God or god when worshipped. Venerated. Respected. 3. If the worship stops, they stop being a god. No matter if they had or had not created anything. All gods are theistic, whether atheistic or theistic. That is the very definition of theist, theism, theistic. Oxford: relating to or characterized by belief in the existence of a god or gods.

All gods are only theistic in the very broadest sense. In the narrower, more helpful sense, they're not. There also is no such thing as an atheistic god.

Oh, it says a lot. Wow. A lot, huh. That is impressive. Like blah, blah, blah, is a lot? I know, I know. I think I'm superior. Fundamentalist (a person who holds those firm, often extreme, beliefs) militant (combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods) atheist (allegedly without gods) are a very small minority. The average atheist is apathetic about God and religion. They don't care. They think it silly so why would they care? The fundi militant atheist seems more common only because they are outspoken, public.

Yes, it says a lot that you use such loaded, skewed terms.

There is no such evidence. Fundi atheists always say that because they are narcissistic know it alls who assume everyone else is as dumb as they are.

Ah, yes, of course, this coming from the person who "is an idiot" (your words, not mine) and "doesn't think he's superior". There is plenty of evidence, along with a complete lack of evidence FOR God. I say that because it's true, not because of any narcissism or knowing it all. But thanks for the unhinged rant.

How so? I didn't say we are our own god, I said we can be. Anything can be.



So do gods. Kim Jong-un, Eric Clapton, Frodo. We keep circling back to that.

We keep circling back to that stupid claim because you keep saying it for some reason. Those people are not gods.

A god means venerated. Nothing more.

Nope. It means a lot more. We've already been over the real definition. That definition is ridiculous and a huge hindrance to communication.

 

[I Am Hugh]

I've studied plenty. I'm obviously referring to religions that believe in God. I have no idea why you think it's relevant to bring up ones that don't. Yes, some religions don't have theistic gods. That isn't our concern here.

Oh, you have to keep moving the goal post to make it look like your contentions are reasonable.

Yup. You're going to have an incredibly tough time communicating with such broad inaccurate definitions.

They're not gods.

Which one of these are most true: the atheist tells the theist what a god is or the theist tells the atheist what a god is?

There's no such thing.

[Sigh] Kim Jong-un.

All gods are only theistic in the very broadest sense.

All gods are only theistic in the very broadest sense but when I give you the only definition of gods that has ever existed in any language you say it's too broad? There's the logic of atheism.

In the narrower, more helpful sense, they're not. There also is no such thing as an atheistic god.

I'm going to trip you up on your own ideology. What about lords? Are there any lords?

Yes, it says a lot that you use such loaded, skewed terms.

I've given you multiple examples of gods, I've shown you lists of them that haven't created anything.

Ah, yes, of course, this coming from the person who "is an idiot" (your words, not mine) and "doesn't think he's superior".

HEY! I'm a superior idiot.

There is plenty of evidence, along with a complete lack of evidence FOR God. I say that because it's true, not because of any narcissism or knowing it all. But thanks for the unhinged rant.

No problem. I enjoy them myself.

We keep circling back to that stupid claim because you keep saying it for some reason. Those people are not gods.

Oh, well, then. You obviously know what you're talking about. Tell me, what should I make of Exodus 4:16 [To Moses] He will speak for you to the people, and he will be your spokesman, and you will serve as God to him. and Psalm 82:6 [Of the judges] I (God) have said, ‘You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High.

 

[Link]

Most people I've discussed God with, especially Christians in online forums, assume that I'm an atheist even though I no longer label myself that way. I ask a lot of questions about theism and religion and expect honest, sensible answers, but I don't tell them I'm an atheist. I also have what I think are convincing arguments that Gods are human creations and that miracles don't happen.

So what's going on with me? As odd as it might sound, in a way it seems that yes, I do believe in God. I was a Christian into my early twenties having been Roman Catholic and then evangelical. I don't think I ever completely shook all that indoctrination. Although belief in God is obviously irrational and delusional, there is a part of my psyche that includes some theism. Evidently human cognition can be inconsistent holding contradictory views. What we reason and what we feel can be quite different.

So yes, I think an atheist can believe in God. To smooth over that paradox, let's say that an atheist reasons that no Gods exist, but belief is another matter. So let me say that I'm a "rational atheist" in that I doubt God based on reason rather than lack of belief. Or to dispense with theistic labels completely, let's say I'm a "truth seeker" who has found that belief in God is to believe a lie.

Deep inside you feel connected to God but believe it's a lie. To an atheist, you need to shrug off the connection to God as it's part of your emotional attachment of upbringing. To me and maybe some other believers, you got to stop listening to irrational doubt and realize who you are connected to by which you can't even cease remembering and recalling. Take a leap of faith and slay the irrational doubt stemming from the murky uncleanness of your soul.