Can animals attain moksha?

[S-word]

Yes, and nations, do cooperative societies have a super soul, a combination of the individual souls sort of a socialist collective?

Quote...Madhuri: A thing that lives has a soul. Every soul has a super soul (God within the soul). An organisation or a nation does not have a soul- that would make it an individual personality with consciousness.

As we are all sharers of the universal body, in that our bodies are formed from the universal elements and will one day return from whence they were taken. So too, are we all sharers of the one universal Soul, for life is soul; The life, soul, or divine animating principle that pervades the entire universe and all therein, is the life of God which animates his ever evolving body. Our bodies and our souls are but God, we the persons or spirits that develop within these living bodies are imprinted upon the soul that is the evolving God and when our bodies, ‘skin, flesh, nerves, hair, brain matter etc,’ have returned to the eternal evolving body of our God, who is but one of the myriads of the family of Gods which are seen as the ever evolving Cosmos, all that remains is a facsimile of you within the universal spirit that is evolving in the universal body of our God.

Any person, who has owned a business, knows that it develops a life or soul of its own. It makes demands on its creator who quickly becomes its servant. In its drive to live and grow in size and complexity, it will demand a board to administer to its needs and will eventually cast aside its creator as superlative to its needs. Oh yes my friends, Companies do have a life/soul, which is the compilation of all the souls of its inner servants.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes S-word, it is my understanding that the term egregore pertains to this subject.

The word "egregore" derives from the Greek word, ἐγρήγοροι (egrḗgoroi), meaning "watchers" (also transliterated "grigori"). This word appears in the Septuagint translation of the Book of Lamentations, as well as the Book of Jubilees and the Book of Enoch. Eliphas Lévi, in Le Grand Arcane ("The Great Mystery", 1868) identifies "egregors" (sic) with the tradition concerning the fathers of the nephilim, describing them as "terrible beings" that "crush us without pity because they are unaware of our existence."

-snip-

Examples
Companies, political parties, religions, prayer groups, states, and clubs all can be said to have egregores. When a project "takes on a life of its own," an egregore might be said to be present. Symbolic characters such as Santa Claus and Uncle Sam could be described as egregores. Stephen King's concept of Ka-tet in The Dark Tower series could be compared to an egregore.

Egregore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is also remarkable is that egregores such as incorporated institutions have the same legal rights as a human does.

In the eyes of American law, corporations like AT&T are the same as humans.
This concept isn't new. In ancient Roman law, a corporation was considered a juristic person: a single, nonhuman entity that legally represented a group of many people [source: Sherman]. The idea makes sense; after all, a corporation is made up of people's financial contributions.

But a corporation is more superhuman than human. It can function beyond the natural limits of age that govern humans, and as such can produce dividends for its investors, whose stock certificates can be willed and passed down as part of their estates. A corporation doesn't die with its originator -- it can live indefinitely (so long as it's profitable). Nor does a corporation need the same things that an actual person does. Corporations don't require food or water, and they can't feel pain [source: Hartmann].

The laws that govern people take our human weaknesses into account. For example, our prison system is designed to incarcerate the human body. You can't imprison a corporation, though. So granting human treatment to nonhuman corporations is tricky: It's like breathing life into a superhuman that can't feel pain and, after setting him free, hoping for the best.

HowStuffWorks "Why do corporations have the same rights as you?"

This from the above,..."So granting human treatment to nonhuman corporations is tricky: It's like breathing life into a superhuman that can't feel pain and, after setting him free, hoping for the best." for some reason reminds me of Revelations?

 

[suneet27]

As a hindu i know the conept of reincarnation very clearly.
Among all the species human is the most intelligent one.
Only he can worship.Did you see cat or dogs in religious place
worshiping ?Every can attain "Moksha" only when it comes to earth in
human skin.

 

[RamaRaksha]

So God demands intelligence? A person born with a limited brain cannot attain Moksha? Do people born with higher intelligence like Einstein get preference in the eyes of God?

You have heard of the Atman leaving one body and entering another? It is not always entering a human body. Each life is an opportunity to sit in God's classroom and learn her teachings. Only by being born as a Dog will you learn to love unconditionally.

When Gajendra (the elephant) was gripped by the crocadile, he cried out and God Vishnu came to his aid. Not all forms of worship take the shape of puja, or praying in a temple.

 

[Valjean]

In Hindu mythology only five animals can re-incarnate as humans. Perhaps some of these, like Gajendra, can skip the hominid stage and attain Moksha?

 

[RamaRaksha]

When you start blindly following what is written in ancient texts, the religion fails to keep up with the times, and will be perceived as backward. For example christians who insist that evolution is false & the earth is 5,000 years old. They are following what is written in their bible. But the bible was written by people who lived at a time when there was no knowledge of evolution or of carbon dating of rocks. They did the best they could. These people were not backward, the bible is not backward. What is backward is today's people blindly following something written in a book, disregarding all common sense & today's knowledge. To me this is idolatry.

Just because some book says something about animals, do not believe it blindly. Please use some reasoning, and please see the God within your heart. She is not in a book.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Odion,

Can animals attain moksha?

Personal understanding is as follows:
*THOUGHTS* lie between *moksha* and the individual.
Thoughts can only be transcended by humans.
It is through the evolutionary process that the mind develops and the human form is attained and this form is unique because of the possibility of the individual merging with the very source from where the whole journey of forms [evolutionary process] started.

Love & rgds

 

[Onkara]

Friend Odion,
*THOUGHTS* lie between *moksha* and the individual.

Nice.
It is the thought that animals are any less which stops us from seeing the Creator in them. Next time one passes a dog, look into its eyes, and Brahman will look back.

Moksha is beyond even that thought.

Respect, Onkarah.

 

[hindupridemn]

I would say that vegetarianism is required to attain moksha. Therefore, most humans cannot attain it.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Onkarah,

Originally Posted by zenzero
Friend Odion,
*THOUGHTS* lie between *moksha* and the individual.
Nice.
It is the thought that animals are any less which stops us from seeing the Creator in them. Next time one passes a dog, look into its eyes, and Brahman will look back.

Moksha is beyond even that thought.

Sorry,
could not follow your response. Can to clarify this fool what you are meaning to state?

Love & rgds

 

[Onkara]

Hi Zenzero
I was elabroating on your nice point which I think is important, that thoughts lie between the individual and moksha.

The thought that an amimal can or cannot achieve moksha is just a thought and nothing more. It is conceptualisation. One can mull over the thought as much as one likes. It leads to debate and introspection, which are enjoyable and useful, but unless the thoughts are questioned themselves then there will still be something between the individual and moksha. In order to reach liberation in the sense that one knows the Self, then one must go beyond thoughts. Thoughts can be used to arrive at that understanding, but then they too must be seen as what they are in themselves.

"Wannabe Yogi" has a wonderful signature which is relevant to my post: "Consciousness minus conceptualization is the eternal Brahman." -Valmiki’s Yoga Vasistha-

I hope Wannabi Yogi has no concern with my quotation. I am happy to edit out.

Thanks! Respectfully, Onkarah.

 

[zenzero]

Friend onkarah,

You have the nail by its head!

Love & rgds

 

[Lotus Jewel]

Hey all!

I was wondering (since there are many other threads on animals, I thought I would open one! ), can animals attain moksha/moksa/mukti/nirvana, or otherwise achieve release from the cycle of reincarnation/rebirth?

It depends on whether or not there is anything to the idea of spontaneous awakening, I suppose.

If spontaneous awakening is a real thing, then having complex human thought capabilities is not needed for Nirvana. Consider too that all the people who claim to have attained Nirvana say that it is not something to be understood. It has often been asserted that Nirvana is realized when one gives up trying to understand and accepts everything with utter simplicity.

I'm inclined to think that animals can awaken, going at it from that angle. It is tempting to think that the human mind and abilities are needed for Nirvana, but that could just be another kind of human arrogance.

Additional thought: the Mahayana idea of spontaneous awakening arguably suggests itself from an understanding that the human tendencies to conceptualize and over-analyze can be hindrances to Nirvana.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Sometimes, a virtuous individual is born as an animal for some small wrong act. Once the punishment of being in animal life is completed, they can proceed to heaven.
Sage Bharata was born as a deer because of his attachment to a fawn which he had saved in a flood. He understood the cause of his rebirth in the form of a deer and remained in the hermitage of Sage Pulaha. After his life as a deer was completed, he obtained Moksha (Nirvana, enlightement, etc.). The understanding that one gains in the life as a human may not be lost even if they are in animal form.

Karma & Rebirth: If you're too attached to your pet and are reborn as that pet, what happens to your karma?

According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam a.k.a Bhāgavata Purāṇa, King Bharata a.k.a Jaḍa Bharata was reborn as a deer at some point because he was too attached to the deer which he adopted when it was still ...

hinduism.stackexchange.com

I am stating the theist Hindu belief. I am myself a strong atheist Hindu.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Hey all!

I was wondering (since there are many other threads on animals, I thought I would open one! ), can animals attain moksha/moksa/mukti/nirvana, or otherwise achieve release from the cycle of reincarnation/rebirth?

Perhaps from the perspective of what I can best describe as unified consciousness in (whatever) nirvana (is), yes. From the perspective of the dog, no.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Perhaps from the perspective of what I can best describe as unified consciousness in (whatever) nirvana (is), yes. From the perspective of the dog, no.

Is the implication here that a dog does not share the same "unified consciousness?" If so, how are you arriving at this conclusion?

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Is the implication here that a dog does not share the same "unified consciousness?" If so, how are you arriving at this conclusion?

No, I was suggesting (and guessing) that the dog does share the same consciousness, but from the acute perspective of the dog, is unaware of that.

 

[SalixIncendium]

No, I was suggesting (and guessing) that the dog does share the same consciousness, but from the acute perspective of the dog, is unaware of that.

Fair enough. But in my experience, this is the same case for most humans as well.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Fair enough. But in my experience, this is the same case for most humans as well.

I would agree with that. I think humans have more in common with animals (especially mammals) than they care to admit.

 

[Lucca la Croix]

If one considers other non human biological beings to have free will, then presumably yes they can.
Birth into animal form is generally considered undesirable by most traditions...Who is to say that life was not the final contortion in the thread of awareness we generally call "soul" in the west, some traditions consider soul to be illusory (or atleast not what is first apparent) I think it quite possible many animals we consider to be less intelligent...Simply do not need the intelligence we have, to live and learn. I can say I have met a fair few dogs, and a couple cats(no offense cat folks! I love them to, but they exercise their egos magnificently, which gives them a unique character as a species) who were prolly more spiritually aware in typical life at the time.
Naga were usually considered to be incapable of Nirvana, yet they were not denigrated for their sincere attempts (and likely many of the Liberated ones on earth, past present and future, may be Naga) As humans our cultures developed a anthocentricism that sometimes results in creating classifications and possibility/impossibility regarding species, we know of...But do not as a species ourselves, know much about.