Can any JWs answer this?

[Neutral Name]

I got this link in my email and I don't know what to think.
To My Mom, and the Cult that Tore Our Family Apart - Losing My Religion - Medium

I have never heard of anything like this before and I have known a few JWs, including my great aunt, and I have been to a few JW services with a friend.

I sounds so bad. Is this woman overstating things or is this true?

I am not trying to be mean to JWs. I just want to know the truth.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I got this link in my email and I don't know what to think.
To My Mom, and the Cult that Tore Our Family Apart - Losing My Religion - Medium

I have never heard of anything like this before and I have known a few JWs, including my great aunt, and I have been to a few JW services with a friend.

I sounds so bad. Is this woman overstating things or is this true?

I am not trying to be mean to JWs. I just want to know the truth.

Not a JW anymore myself.

I will point you to facts though.

The Australian Royal commission investigated Child Sex Abuse among many religious organisations, including JW's and the below link is the governments commentary on the JW policies:

Report into Jehovah’s Witness organisations released | Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse

Check out the information about JW shunning from their own website:


https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...6-092238e8048a&insight[search_result_index]=0 (You should watch the video of this to compare as it is referencing a JW video about disfellowhipping. The daughter is kicked out of the house when disfellowshipped as she is not a minor)

Below is the link to the video:

Jehovah's Witnesses BROADCASTING

Below are additional links:

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...6-9b5246768fcc&insight[search_result_index]=1

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...1-01ac86481014&insight[search_result_index]=4

 

[Samael_Khan]

The links I gave on shunning are from the JW.org website. So it is what they officially believe.

 

[calm]

@Diana Montgomery
It's nothing new.
In 2015 it was discovered that Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia had been covering up child abuse for decades. (over 1000 cases)
Church 'hid 1,000 alleged abusers'

The followers of this group are being manipulated. They do and think what the Watchtower tells them and that is dangerous. The followers think the Watchtower is from God but it is not. The Watchtower is like a wolf in sheep's clothing. From the outside it may look good but from the inside it is evil.

 

[Neutral Name]

@Diana Montgomery
It's nothing new.
In 2015 it was discovered that Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia had been covering up child abuse for decades. (over 1000 cases)
Church 'hid 1,000 alleged abusers'

The followers of this group are being manipulated. They do and think what the Watchtower tells them and that is dangerous. The followers think the Watchtower is from God but it is not. The Watchtower is like a wolf in sheep's clothing. From the outside it may look good but from the inside it is evil.

Wow! I will pray that JWs have true discernment. I hate to think of children being abused. It breaks my heart.

 

[Neutral Name]

Not a JW anymore myself.

I will point you to facts though.

The Australian Royal commission investigated Child Sex Abuse among many religious organisations, including JW's and the below link is the governments commentary on the JW policies:

Report into Jehovah’s Witness organisations released | Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse

Check out the information about JW shunning from their own website:


https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...6-092238e8048a&insight[search_result_index]=0 (You should watch the video of this to compare as it is referencing a JW video about disfellowhipping. The daughter is kicked out of the house when disfellowshipped as she is not a minor)

Below is the link to the video:

Jehovah's Witnesses BROADCASTING

Below are additional links:

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...6-9b5246768fcc&insight[search_result_index]=1

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...1-01ac86481014&insight[search_result_index]=4

Thank you so much for all of that information, Israel. Another disturbing religion for me to contemplate and pray to God that it is changed for the better.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Wow! I will pray that JWs have true discernment. I hate to think of children being abused. It breaks my heart.

What is crazy is that I only new of the extent of the child abuse and the child abuse cases once I left the group. Most Witnesses do not know about the child abuse cases and lawsuits because the organisation never told us.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Thank you so much for all of that information, Israel. Another disturbing religion for me to contemplate and pray to God that it is changed for the better.

I hope so too. And your prayers would certainly help

 

[Neutral Name]

What is crazy is that I only new of the extent of the child abuse and the child abuse cases once I left the group. Most Witnesses do not know about the child abuse cases and lawsuits because the organisation never told us.

That definitely sounds like a cult.

 

[Samael_Khan]

That definitely sounds like a cult.

And there is so much more to it than what we have discussed.

After the Australian Royal commission, some governments are now investigating the JW's with regard to child abuse cases.

Chek the below link:

Police raid Jehovah's witness buildings in sexual abuse inquiries - DutchNews.nl - Live

The following quote from the above article is revealing and is a common issue around the world;

"And in July, MPs from across the political spectrum called for an investigation after the church said it would not sanction an independent inquiry into dozens of claims of abuse."

The problem is not with individual members. The problem is at the top. And it isn't because JW's like abusing children. Most would be disgusted by the thought. But the higher ups are in denial because they want to protect the groups image rather than protect the children.

And eerily, concerning raids, what do you make of the end of this video:

Jehovah's Witnesses BROADCASTING

And check this video out from the 2018 convention:

They are expecting something like SWAT forces to attack them. The dutch are raiding them currently for a valid reason. My question is what are they trying to make Witnesses think? Are they predicting raids to happen to Kingdom Halls and now trying to mold the JW's view of these events? I dunno. But even when a Witness I thought these videos were weird.

 

[shmogie]

I got this link in my email and I don't know what to think.
To My Mom, and the Cult that Tore Our Family Apart - Losing My Religion - Medium

I have never heard of anything like this before and I have known a few JWs, including my great aunt, and I have been to a few JW services with a friend.

I sounds so bad. Is this woman overstating things or is this true?

I am not trying to be mean to JWs. I just want to know the truth.

I am not a JW, but I understand their theology pretty well, having had Bible studies with them for years. I don´t accept their theology, yet they keep coming and I enjoy our studies.

Disfellowshipping is done by other denominations as well. It simply means that after a complete investigation, one is knowingly involved in a sin, and will not repent of it.

As one pastor explained it, we are in a war against evil, and if one is overcome by the enemy, a casualty of the war, they are removed from the front line to recuperate. Once healed, they are welcomed back to the fight, if they choose.

Yes, JWś practice the other kind of shunning, to the point that they right off their own children. One almost broke down in tears by what he was attempting to do to his son. Absolutely no contact.

He also told me that secretly he saw his son and gave him money. Both things that would get him in big trouble with the organization.

It is unimaginable to me and there is no way Christ would sanction this.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I am not a JW, but I understand their theology pretty well, having had Bible studies with them for years. I don´t accept their theology, yet they keep coming and I enjoy our studies.

Disfellowshipping is done by other denominations as well. It simply means that after a complete investigation, one is knowingly involved in a sin, and will not repent of it.

As one pastor explained it, we are in a war against evil, and if one is overcome by the enemy, a casualty of the war, they are removed from the front line to recuperate. Once healed, they are welcomed back to the fight, if they choose.

Yes, JWś practice the other kind of shunning, to the point that they right off their own children. One almost broke down in tears by what he was attempting to do to his son. Absolutely no contact.

He also told me that secretly he saw his son and gave him money. Both things that would get him in big trouble with the organization.

It is unimaginable to me and there is no way Christ would sanction this.

That is a sad story. I know a few people who associated with family members who were disfellowshipped and were supposed to be shunned. They were criticized by the congregation. And the elders were criticized for being lacks and incompetent for allowing it to happen. In fact though, the elders in my congregation were showing compassion, as they tried to understand the feelings involved.

Have you ever discussed with the JW's the scriptures that they use to justify shunning?

 

[shmogie]

That is a sad story. I know a few people who associated with family members who were disfellowshipped and were supposed to be shunned. They were criticized by the congregation. And the elders were criticized for being lacks and incompetent for allowing it to happen. In fact though, the elders in my congregation were showing compassion, as they tried to understand the feelings involved.

Have you ever discussed with the JW's the scriptures that they use to justify shunning?

Yes, and after all of their diversions, two had to admit it wasn´t in the NT except where Paul says to not associate with unrepentant sinners.

Their main backbone of their argument was ¨ The Society¨. They will not admit that they are just like those denominations with extraBiblical prophets.

They say that the small group of men that controls everything are not inspired, yet they obey them like they are. A dichotomy they simply refuse to explain other than to say that ¨if it was contrary to the Bible they would object, ¨ the society tells them that nothing it produces is contrary to the Bible.

Even their ¨talk¨ that is given by an elder on sunday is written by at their headquarters and it is read, word for word in every ¨ Kingdom hall ¨

When asked that if they had ¨the truth¨ and a family member rejected it, how could they bring their family member back into harmony with God if they can´t speak to them ?

Essentially, they say they will be lost.

All of them over the years have been lovely people, but sooner or later they will have to write me off too, though, not having been one, I would have the opportunity to join them at any time.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Yes, and after all of their diversions, two had to admit it wasn´t in the NT except where Paul says to not associate with unrepentant sinners.

Their main backbone of their argument was ¨ The Society¨. They will not admit that they are just like those denominations with extraBiblical prophets.

They say that the small group of men that controls everything are not inspired, yet they obey them like they are. A dichotomy they simply refuse to explain other than to say that ¨if it was contrary to the Bible they would object, ¨ the society tells them that nothing it produces is contrary to the Bible.

Even their ¨talk¨ that is given by an elder on sunday is written by at their headquarters and it is read, word for word in every ¨ Kingdom hall ¨

When asked that if they had ¨the truth¨ and a family member rejected it, how could they bring their family member back into harmony with God if they can´t speak to them ?

Essentially, they say they will be lost.

All of them over the years have been lovely people, but sooner or later they will have to write me off too, though, not having been one, I would have the opportunity to join them at any time.

I am glad that you addressed those scriptures with them.

When I decided to disassociate from the JW's, the elders came to my house. I told them that I was leaving because I disagreed with the anointed doctrine and the 144 000. Obviously I studied the material in depth, so when they reasoned with me, I pretty much new what they were going to say and brought up the fact that chapter 19 of Revelations states that the Great crowd are in heaven, Romans 8 implies that those who aren't heirs with Christ do not belong to God and will die. (By the way Romans 8 is a good chapter to discuss with them as they haven't commented on verses 8-13 since 1975, which are vital verses.) I asked them to comment on verses 8-13 of Romans 8 and they said they couldn't comment on it if the Organisation didn't comment on it. Then my eyes were really opened.

They often believe contradictory things. Like they say the GB aren't their leaders yet they are "taking the lead" as if there is a difference.

The talks aren't actually read word for word. They are given an outline and have a bit of freedom in the illustrations that they use and how they explain the points, but they get counciled by another elder if they deviate from the outline. They take pride in having the same teaching throughout the world.

I have a serious problem with their idea of "the truth" as truth does not change. Their New Light doctrine pretty much shows that past beliefs were not the truth. They should more accurately say that they have some truth. It is another of their contradictory beliefs.

I am surprised that they haven't considered you a hopeless cause, as they don't like focusing on people who do not agree with them these days. They are encouraged to focus on people who will accept their teachings.

 

[shmogie]

I am glad that you addressed those scriptures with them.

When I decided to disassociate from the JW's, the elders came to my house. I told them that I was leaving because I disagreed with the anointed doctrine and the 144 000. Obviously I studied the material in depth, so when they reasoned with me, I pretty much new what they were going to say and brought up the fact that chapter 19 of Revelations states that the Great crowd are in heaven, Romans 8 implies that those who aren't heirs with Christ do not belong to God and will die. (By the way Romans 8 is a good chapter to discuss with them as they haven't commented on verses 8-13 since 1975, which are vital verses.) I asked them to comment on verses 8-13 of Romans 8 and they said they couldn't comment on it if the Organisation didn't comment on it. Then my eyes were really opened.

They often believe contradictory things. Like they say the GB aren't their leaders yet they are "taking the lead" as if there is a difference.

The talks aren't actually read word for word. They are given an outline and have a bit of freedom in the illustrations that they use and how they explain the points, but they get counciled by another elder if they deviate from the outline. They take pride in having the same teaching throughout the world.

I have a serious problem with their idea of "the truth" as truth does not change. Their New Light doctrine pretty much shows that past beliefs were not the truth. They should more accurately say that they have some truth. It is another of their contradictory beliefs.

I am surprised that they haven't considered you a hopeless cause, as they don't like focusing on people who do not agree with them these days. They are encouraged to focus on people who will accept their teachings.

Yes, I had a friend of my denomination at the time who had a pretty wide collection of Watchtower magazines. His purpose was to illustrate the number of times they changed doctrine, new light.

I have found them unable to really defend their NWT, and placing the name Jehovah, in the NT. Of course the Koine Greek original source documents never use that word, and frankly, never did the writers of the OT.

Finally, in an upset moment one said ¨ it should have been there´ ??? !!!!

The 144,000 seems to be a touchy subject with them, as is the ¨translators¨ of their Bible, no scholars, a few classes in classical Greek, none in Koine Greek.

When you tell them that the 144,000 do not even exist till the final call to come out of Babylon, at the very end, they lean on proof texts that are easily interpreted differently.

Where they get the idea that a person can simply identify themselves as being part of that exalted group, I haven´t a clue.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Yes, I had a friend of my denomination at the time who had a pretty wide collection of Watchtower magazines. His purpose was to illustrate the number of times they changed doctrine, new light.

I have found them unable to really defend their NWT, and placing the name Jehovah, in the NT. Of course the Koine Greek original source documents never use that word, and frankly, never did the writers of the OT.

Finally, in an upset moment one said ¨ it should have been there´ ??? !!!!

The 144,000 seems to be a touchy subject with them, as is the ¨translators¨ of their Bible, no scholars, a few classes in classical Greek, none in Koine Greek.

When you tell them that the 144,000 do not even exist till the final call to come out of Babylon, at the very end, they lean on proof texts that are easily interpreted differently.

Where they get the idea that a person can simply identify themselves as being part of that exalted group, I haven´t a clue.

I have the cd rom that they have which goes all the way back to 1950. So I just look that up to see whether accusations against them are true.

They do actually have reasoning in the back of their bibles as to why they are allowed to use Jehovah in certain places. It makes sense that the Old Testament quotes would have them. But maybe the authors were sticking to Jewish tradition. They also have a point that the Jews shouldn't have replaced the divine name. There are other problems I have with the NWT though. Jehovah is a transliteration so I personally have no problem with the use of it, and they recognize it is a transliteration. We base our transliteration of biblical names off its transliteration.

Example:
Ephesians 4:11-13 says Christ gave gifts to men in the Greek and their interlinear. With the new bible they changed the text to say "Gifts of men" which they use to say that God gave the elders and others in authority as gifts.

The 144 000 would be a touchy subject because, if that interpretation of theirs is wrong, then they are also Christs brothers and are rejecting God, as only the 144 000 take part in the Lord's Evening Meal. And then, the GB don't have authority over them. Reinterpreting that passage and related ones basically undermines the whole faith.

I don't know much about the translators myself. Ironically, they say that the translators aren't mentioned because they refuse to be mentioned because they are humble, yet the GB and others are basically celebrities these days due to screen time on JW broadcasting.

They say that the anointed "just know" that they have Holy Spirit. And they cannot prove it to others. Also, they would know that their hope is in heaven, as others would not have a heavenly hope but know that they will have an earthly one. Because there are still so many people claiming to be anointed today, it is "understood" that a lot aren't anointed and could be suffering from a mental condition or delusion.. Whenever a JW meets an anointed one, they always say that that person is so humble and spiritual, as if they are more enlightened than the rest.





https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+4:11-13&version=NLV

 

[Neutral Name]

I am not a JW, but I understand their theology pretty well, having had Bible studies with them for years. I don´t accept their theology, yet they keep coming and I enjoy our studies.

Disfellowshipping is done by other denominations as well. It simply means that after a complete investigation, one is knowingly involved in a sin, and will not repent of it.

As one pastor explained it, we are in a war against evil, and if one is overcome by the enemy, a casualty of the war, they are removed from the front line to recuperate. Once healed, they are welcomed back to the fight, if they choose.

Yes, JWś practice the other kind of shunning, to the point that they right off their own children. One almost broke down in tears by what he was attempting to do to his son. Absolutely no contact.

He also told me that secretly he saw his son and gave him money. Both things that would get him in big trouble with the organization.

It is unimaginable to me and there is no way Christ would sanction this.

Jesus was all about love and forgiveness, not holding things against anyone. He said to love your enemy but I do know that the Catholic Church excommunicates people.

I don't agree with any of this and I think that the parent still seeing his child is doing the right thing.

 

[Neutral Name]

And there is so much more to it than what we have discussed.

After the Australian Royal commission, some governments are now investigating the JW's with regard to child abuse cases.

Chek the below link:

Police raid Jehovah's witness buildings in sexual abuse inquiries - DutchNews.nl - Live

The following quote from the above article is revealing and is a common issue around the world;

"And in July, MPs from across the political spectrum called for an investigation after the church said it would not sanction an independent inquiry into dozens of claims of abuse."

The problem is not with individual members. The problem is at the top. And it isn't because JW's like abusing children. Most would be disgusted by the thought. But the higher ups are in denial because they want to protect the groups image rather than protect the children.

And eerily, concerning raids, what do you make of the end of this video:

Jehovah's Witnesses BROADCASTING

And check this video out from the 2018 convention:

They are expecting something like SWAT forces to attack them. The dutch are raiding them currently for a valid reason. My question is what are they trying to make Witnesses think? Are they predicting raids to happen to Kingdom Halls and now trying to mold the KW's view of these events? I dunno. But even when a Witness I thought these videos were weird.

I would say that they have turned into the definition of a cult. They are now beginning to look dangerous. That has happened with many cults in the past. I'm 61 years old. So, I have seen many since my youth. This is frightening.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I would say that they have turned into the definition of a cult. They are now beginning to look dangerous. That has happened with many cults in the past. I'm 61 years old. So, I have seen many since my youth. This is frightening.

It is. We were even taught that we should take direction even if that direction doesn't make sense. Reminds me of Jones Town.

I personally, cannot fathom the group ever doing what the Peoples Temple did, as I have too much faith in them as people and can't comprehend the leaders doing such a thing. But saying a statement like that is dangerous and those videos are dangerous.

 

[shmogie]

I have the cd rom that they have which goes all the way back to 1950. So I just look that up to see whether accusations against them are true.

They do actually have reasoning in the back of their bibles as to why they are allowed to use Jehovah in certain places. It makes sense that the Old Testament quotes would have them. But maybe the authors were sticking to Jewish tradition. They also have a point that the Jews shouldn't have replaced the divine name. There are other problems I have with the NWT though. Jehovah is a transliteration so I personally have no problem with the use of it, and they recognize it is a transliteration. We base our transliteration of biblical names off its transliteration.

Example:
Ephesians 4:11-13 says Christ gave gifts to men in the Greek and their interlinear. With the new bible they changed the text to say "Gifts of men" which they use to say that God gave the elders and others in authority as gifts.

The 144 000 would be a touchy subject because, if that interpretation of theirs is wrong, then they are also Christs brothers and are rejecting God, as only the 144 000 take part in the Lord's Evening Meal. And then, the GB don't have authority over them. Reinterpreting that passage and related ones basically undermines the whole faith.

I don't know much about the translators myself. Ironically, they say that the translators aren't mentioned because they refuse to be mentioned because they are humble, yet the GB and others are basically celebrities these days due to screen time on JW broadcasting.

They say that the anointed "just know" that they have Holy Spirit. And they cannot prove it to others. Also, they would know that their hope is in heaven, as others would not have a heavenly hope but know that they will have an earthly one. Because there are still so many people claiming to be anointed today, it is "understood" that a lot aren't anointed and could be suffering from a mental condition or delusion.. Whenever a JW meets an anointed one, they always say that that person is so humble and spiritual, as if they are more enlightened than the rest.

Of course the tetragrammaton could never be pronounced as Jehovah, there as no J sound in it. In fact, the ¨J´ apparently didn´t exist in English till around the 16th century. I do a lot of research for my studies with them !

In my view, denominationalism is just majoring in minors. Apostolic Christianity was simple and clear.

I believe some denominations are composed of people who, for whatever reason, must have a special badge to show they are right, and others are wrong, it is an ego thing.

I was an Elder in the denomination from which JWś sprang, the SDA´s. They too have their very special badge, the sabbath and their very own prophet.

I rejected all of that, and just try and be an obedient primitive Christian.

Jesus was all about love and forgiveness, not holding things against anyone. He said to love your enemy but I do know that the Catholic Church excommunicates people.

I don't agree with any of this and I think that the parent still seeing his child is doing the right thing.

Certainly Christ was all about love, but did you know that He used the word repent more than the word love ?