Can belief in sorcery lead to murder?

[danieldemol]

I read this news article about sorcery in Papua New Guinea;

Stripped, tortured with hot irons and thrown off a bridge: 'Witchcraft' terror spreading in PNG

From the article;

'Fears of COVID-19 'time bomb' in PNG as unexplained deaths spark sorcery claims, torture and murder
By PNG correspondent Natalie Whiting in Port Moresby and Bethanie Harriman

Posted Yesterday at 7:24am, updated Yesterday at 7:57am

New roads have made PNG more connected than ever before, but they have also allowed a belief in sorcery to spread.(
ABC News: Natalie Whiting

)
When a young boy died suddenly in Tatape Village in Papua New Guinea's highlands, his relatives said dark forces were at work.

Four women were accused of using sanguma — a local term for sorcery or witchcraft — to kill the child.

Sergeant Daniel Olabe from the Hela Police Command alleges the boy's father and others led their tribesmen to where the women were selling baked flour in a local market.

WARNING: This story contains graphic content that some readers may find upsetting.

"Eventually they got one of the ladies … and tortured her," he said.

"They hung her up, tied her arms and legs, beat her and started cutting her really badly.

"They did it until 10:00pm and she died eventually."

Her dismembered body was left beside a road some kilometres away.

A video of the torture and murder shows a crowd of people watching on.'

So my questions are 2
1. Can belief in sorcery lead to murder
2. If yes is this a good reason to be skeptical of utterly unevidenced claims of sorcery?

 

[Kooky]

1. Not directly, but I would argue that in a society that operates under the assumption that calamitous events can be caused clandestinely by individuals, it is easy to shift blame for such events on outsiders and other people living on the margins of society.

2. We should always be skeptical of claims that are not supported by evidence, the former does not really enter into the equation for me - in fact, singling out claims of 'sorcery' in this way feels to me like trying to find a justification for secular witch hunts. It is not individuals who claim supernatural skill who are to blame for these witch hunts, in my opinion - and to be perfectly fair, those claims may well be what supports them financially while already being marginalized in society - but the communities who are looking for an quick outlet for their frustration and hatred and find it primarily in these people who make their living on their margins.

 

[Nimos]

So my questions are 2
1. Can belief in sorcery lead to murder
2. If yes is this a good reason to be skeptical of utterly unevidenced claims of sorcery?

One should be sceptical about everything.

And everything can be an excuse for murder, if you believe that you are right in your cause. Clearly these people doing this to the women, don't know what scepticism is or what rational thinking is. They just go with whatever they are convinced is true and act on it, if they have no reason to believe they are wrong, then why shouldn't they do the correct thing, they have found an evil witch or sorcerer that are doing evil things to them, so surely she should die for such evil.

If people don't know how to evaluate their beliefs and be critical or sceptical about them, there is nothing stopping anyone from justifying murder as being fully legit.

Remember being wrong feels exactly like being right, you can't tell the difference between them, if you don't put it to the test.

 

[Justanatheist]

So my questions are 2
1. Can belief in sorcery lead to murder
2. If yes is this a good reason to be skeptical of utterly unevidenced claims of sorcery?

1. Yes just google Child Witches in Africa to know this for a fact.

2. I would go further than being skeptical, I would say that sorcery has been proven to be false. All religions in the world should denounce the ideas of demonic possession, sorcery and other such rubbish as being false. My own mother was told by a local vicar in the 50's she was possessed by demons because she had epilepsy. A most timid and peaceful person. It is one of the few subjects about religion that really gets under my skin, innocent people suffering from religious prejudice with no evidence what so ever.

 

[PureX]

Such a belief has led to the murders of a great many humans in the past, and certainly could do so now and again.

 

[Brickjectivity]

When a young boy died suddenly in Tatape Village in Papua New Guinea's highlands, his relatives said dark forces were at work.

Four women were accused of using sanguma — a local term for sorcery or witchcraft — to kill the child.

A lot depends upon what region your are in. Witchcraft and superstitions about it are not the same everywhere in the world.

I've been told that often a curse on someone often involves poisons or needles etc. aka assassination. Its probably for this reason that people take witchcraft so seriously in Africa. In New Guinea I do not know; but maybe they have the same problem. Maybe curses are a serious matter there?

The assassin trade has a long history and has been sold in different ways: sometimes as witchcraft. To sell murder is a little tricky, to find a market. Offering to put curses on people is safer than offering to kill outright.

In Europe witchcraft is probably a little different, because there is not a market for putting curses onto people. It depends; but assassins are in every country and find ways to ply their trade.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So my questions are 2
1. Can belief in sorcery lead to murder
2. If yes is this a good reason to be skeptical of utterly unevidenced claims of sorcery?

1. Yes. This isn't the only time this has happened. I've read of one shaman who carries a loaded shotgun with him because of such nonsense, because it tends to have some truth that one village's shaman is another village's sorcerer.
2, Yes, and other such superstitious mumbo-jumbo. It doesn't actually do anything good (save for the psychological feel good stuff) but it does lead to death, murder, hostilities, and a world of false hopes. Even in areas that seem more benign to people, like holistic medicine, this stuff is unregulated and unlabeled so still potentially dangerous not only for a lack of treating a problem but also due to potential allergic reactions and some substances that are dangerous.

In New Guinea I do not know; but maybe they have the same problem. Maybe curses are a serious matter there?

They are.

 

[stvdv]

So my questions are 2
1. Can belief in sorcery lead to murder

Sorcery, as in black magic, can get people killed (according to Hindu stories)
But I doubt whether there are nowadays practitioners having such power (in kali Yuga)
(having such power needs quite some dedication and will power and Grace)

2. If yes is this a good reason to be skeptical of utterly unevidenced claims of sorcery?

I rather have no evidence (as in death by sorcery killing)

And when demanding evidence, these black magicians might actual kill, just to veil their lack of "kill skill" (kill by black magic)

 

[danieldemol]

in fact, singling out claims of 'sorcery' in this way feels to me like trying to find a justification for secular witch hunts.

Have you ever heard of a secular witch hunt?

 

[Kooky]

Have you ever heard of a secular witch hunt?

Yes, though typically not against literal witches.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Sorcery can lead to murder, but a lot of witches are honestly I think peaceful feminists who are often a bit introverted and respect nature. At least the ones I've met.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

And the same can be said of some practices in some other religions.

 

[danieldemol]

Yes, though typically not against literal witches.

It would honestly surprise me to see a secular witch hunt against people perceived to be witches because my assumption is that most people from the secular crowd don't believe in the powers of sorcery, so they don't fear people perceived to be witches.

I would imagine secular people are more likely to take issue with belief in sorcery rather than with those individuals perceived to be sorcerers themselves.

 

[Kooky]

It would honestly surprise me to see a secular witch hunt against people perceived to be witches because my assumption is that most people from the secular crowd don't believe in the powers of sorcery, so they don't fear people perceived to be witches.

They may not believe in the powers of sorcery, but they certainly believe in the power of certain groups of people - Jews, Communists, SJWs - to clandestinely bring about grand catastrophes and great social ills in ways that do not make sense on a rational level.

I would imagine secular people are more likely to take issue with belief in sorcery rather than with those individuals perceived to be sorcerers themselves.

That was also the position the Holy Inquisition took during the Middle Ages. Sorcerers were persecuted for heresy - but not because they were believed to be doing evil magic, but because the Church was of the opinion that any claim to sorcery contradicted the Christian dogma that miracles could only come from god.

 

[danieldemol]

That was also the position the Holy Inquisition took during the Middle Ages. Sorcerers were persecuted for heresy - but not because they were believed to be doing evil magic, but because the Church was of the opinion that any claim to sorcery contradicted the Christian dogma that miracles could only come from god.

In my opinion their dogmas were what kept them in political power, so they had something to fear (ie the competing dogma of sorcerers).

On the other hand when people perceived to be sorcerers are literally being murdered because of the belief people have in the dogma of sorcery, it can actually save lives to expose this dogma for what it is.

There is nothing irrational about that and I would suggest that it is your unfounded fear of secularists persecuting people perceived to be sorcerers (again has this actually happened?) Which i would suggest is your belief in the power of a certain group of people - secularists in this case - to clandestinely bring about a grand catastrophe and great social ill (hunting people perceived to be witches) in a way that does not make sense on a rational level.

In my opinion.

 

[Kooky]

In my opinion their dogmas were what kept them in political power, so they had something to fear (ie the competing dogma of sorcerers).

On the other hand when people perceived to be sorcerers are literally being murdered because of the belief people have in the dogma of sorcery, it can actually save lives to expose this dogma for what it is.

There is nothing irrational about that and I would suggest that it is your unfounded fear of secularists persecuting people perceived to be sorcerers (again has this actually happened?) Which i would suggest is your belief in the power of a certain group of people - secularists in this case - to clandestinely bring about a grand catastrophe and great social ill (hunting people perceived to be witches) in a way that does not make sense on a rational level.

In my opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong.