Can God be suprised?

[Ori]

Some believe God knows everything thats been and will happen, but could God be suprised?

 

[Fluffy]

Consider the following. If I go on holiday and fall asleep in a hotel room then I most certainly know where I am at that point. However, when I wake up the next day, I am momentarially disorientated and I might be surprised at my surroundings. If a being was not omniscient all the time, like if it was a sense that could be switched on and off, then surprise could be factored into the scenario.

So perhaps it comes down to your beliefs about the mechanisms behind your dieties omniscience. Some might think that surprise is ungodlike regardless of omniscience.

 

[kreeden]

I don't know . Why do you ask , are you planning a surprise ?


I really couldn't say . But I sure hope so . God would have to be so bored if He is never surprised a little .... that of course is if God can be bored ?

 

[michel]

I think he might be, at some of your threads......


No, I would not have thought that God can be surprized; I would have thought that every single eventuality is something that God knows better than we do.....and more.

 

[jewscout]

i do not think that G-d can be surprised.

 

[Apotheosis]

This is similar to the question "Can God create a stone he cannot lift?". The answer-I dont know, if he isnt all-powerful or all-knowing, then he cantbe surprised, but if he can be surprised, then he isn't all knowing.

 

[kreeden]

But then the question of free will comes into play . Could God give free will and still know 100% that something will happen , what each and every being with free will will do ? Or does He just choose to allow the gift of free will to run it's course ?

As I said , I have no idea . And when I first read the question , the truth is I thought it was one of the silliest questions I never heard ... but I can't get it out of my head ... :help:

 

[Ronule]

Of course he can!!! Just wait till he sees what I left on his porch. :162:

 

[kreeden]

Ok , I have an answer . He can if He wants to be .

 

[Scuba Pete]

Can God be surprised?

I think he fell off his chair when I was baptized.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

f I go on holiday and fall asleep in a hotel room then I most certainly know where I am at that point. However, when I wake up the next day, I am momentarially disorientated and I might be surprised at my surroundings.

That happened to me after my first surgery. But I was only about 6 years old.

I think maybe the gods might have been surprised at first thinking 'Those humans DID WHAT!?!'
But the shock value would have been lost long ago, and they are no longer surprised at anything.

 

[Fluffy]

Oh yes, by the way, my god and goddess can be surprised.

 

[kreeden]

Some believe God knows everything thats been and will happen, but could God be suprised?

Ok , for the sake of arguement , lets say that God is all-powerful , and all-knowing , without boundaries or limitations . But He is also a Creator . To creat , one has to put limitations upon it . Once something becomes something , it can not be something else , thus limiting it to whatever it is . So , by creating the world , God would have to put limitations , laws , or whatever you wish to call it , upon that world . Wouldn't it make sense the the Creator would be bound by his own laws ? I mean , he may not have to be , but if he didn't limit hisself while within the limits of the world that He created , couldn't that change His creation ?

So , it is my theory the God is limited , to some degree within his own creation , by the very laws that He made . All-powerful or not . If not , things would be total chaos . Now , depending upon those limitations , it could be possible that yes , He could be mildly surprised . I say mildly , because being All-knowing , I assume that He would know all possibilities and would be able to deduct the most likely to happen .

 

[michel]

Ok , for the sake of arguement , lets say that God is all-powerful , and all-knowing , without boundaries or limitations . But He is also a Creator . To creat , one has to put limitations upon it . Once something becomes something , it can not be something else , thus limiting it to whatever it is . So , by creating the world , God would have to put limitations , laws , or whatever you wish to call it , upon that world . Wouldn't it make sense the the Creator would be bound by his own laws ? I mean , he may not have to be , but if he didn't limit hisself while within the limits of the world that He created , couldn't that change His creation ?

So , it is my theory the God is limited , to some degree within his own creation , by the very laws that He made . All-powerful or not . If not , things would be total chaos . Now , depending upon those limitations , it could be possible that yes , He could be mildly surprised . I say mildly , because being All-knowing , I assume that He would know all possibilities and would be able to deduct the most likely to happen .

I dare say that I will have my post criticized, but I think you have hit the nail firmly on the head with logic. Good post.

 

[Fluffy]

This is similar to the question "Can God create a stone he cannot lift?". The answer-I dont know, if he isnt all-powerful or all-knowing, then he cantbe surprised, but if he can be surprised, then he isn't all knowing.

See my post. Is this not a possible way for God to be surprised and omniscient?

But then the question of free will comes into play . Could God give free will and still know 100% that something will happen , what each and every being with free will will do ? Or does He just choose to allow the gift of free will to run it's course ?

Omniscience is not reconcilable with the illusion of free will.

 

[michel]

See my post. Is this not a possible way for God to be surprised and omniscient?


Omniscience is not reconcilable with the illusion of free will.

Why not ?

 

[Fluffy]

Why not ?

A choice implies a possibility that one can go along at least 2 different paths. Omniscience implies that a decision can be known before it is made. If the outcome of the choice is known before it is made then the possibility of the 2nd path is stripped away (in order to make it knowledge), thereby rendering it no longer a choice.

Edit: Might I add that omniscience is not supported in scripture so a belief that God is omniscient is extra-Biblical as far as a Christian should be concerned.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

In a word, NO.

God says that nothing is new, I'm sure that like any wise parent, he has "seen it all".

 

[cardero]

What many people do not realize is that GOD does have the ability to control and decide what to know and understand. I also believe that GOD enjoys surprises.

 

[michel]

A choice implies a possibility that one can go along at least 2 different paths. Omniscience implies that a decision can be known before it is made. If the outcome of the choice is known before it is made then the possibility of the 2nd path is stripped away (in order to make it knowledge), thereby rendering it no longer a choice.

Edit: Might I add that omniscience is not supported in scripture so a belief that God is omniscient is extra-Biblical as far as a Christian should be concerned.

I have seen Carderro's post and that makes this question purely academic if he is right - which I must admit I tend to go along whith.

But for the sake of refuting your logic, Fluffy, to my mind a case can be made for free will with omniscience; imagine walking into a very big castle. You go in through the front doors. you then have a choice of various doors to open - each one of which has a room behind it. Forsake of the argument, the individual has got the free will to go through any door of his choice - but the rooms still exist even though he chooses one over the others. Does that make sense; I see it as Logic.