Can God create a rock he cannot lift? YES.

[Bird123]

Salam

The hardened heart and arrogant soul, is like this. God can't reform such souls often, its rock falling and God cannot lift it, and the ball is in their court. Of course, if they reach out to God and do their part of believing in Him and humbling to him, God will respond if they respond.

But prayer is like a bow, and the action is like an arrow. Without action, the bow has no effect. You need the bow (prayer) to shoot and aim properly and for direction, push, and power, but if you don't do action, and don't embrace the help of God, it's impossible.

Thus even the great Surah Fatiha with Quran and it's place, often, does not save a soul from hell.

So many recite it, yet don't perceive it and envy those who God's Name/Favor/Straight path is upon and channeled to others including Jinn and who God completed his favor upon humanity and Jinn through.

They imagine their own explanation of what the favor and those bestowed are, despite Quran giving an explanation to all 7 of those verses and elaborating them.

Its a sad world.

Mohammad (s) is told if he can connect people of his time with a ladder to heaven or underground path from earth to heaven, to do so, but we see such souls will only become more rebellious, lost, and further away if he connects them to the heaven/sky and say they are a enchanted people and that Mohammad (s) is doing sorcery upon them.

@Bird123 and I are having a discussion about hell. I believe he believes reform of any soul is possible by God given enough time. To what I understand, things become impossible at a point. When the hardened soul to God's proof will be forced the proof, it will humble to it on the day of judgment, but never be more astray in hate of God and farness from God.

Its a component of why this world is what is. Why suffering exists. Why diseases exist. Why natural disasters happen. It is too frighten us and life is short so we take life seriously.

The laughing nature towards the sacredness of God's Names and Religion, is a symptom of dark magic. There is no rational reason for it.

Drink enough of intoxication from dark magic of Iblis, and reform of the heart becomes impossible. God created life and death with hell and heaven as the end result to push us fast towards him and make the journey fast and short towards him. So that we don't delay repentance and realize short life is not worth disobeying God and risking hell.

But alas, the irrational way people bet, and trade the path of ascension for temporary pleasures that are not that worthwhile and even if were are temporary....

It becomes in time, impossible to reform.

God cannot do the impossible.

You seem unable to control others. Why do you value control?

You greatly Underestimate God. A Being capable of creating Universes has ways far above your thinking.
Remember, this world is a Masterpiece. Stop the petty judging, and condemning and look for the system in place. Ask yourself: How does it fit together to make a Masterpiece?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Link]

You seem unable to control others. Why do you value control?

God controlling and being King in truth is better than others controlling and manipulating people. Humanity needs government and leadership.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I live in Canada and been here since I was 9 months old. And what they did and continue to do the Natives is a whole tale itself showing how debauched my government is.

And yes, that is true. I am also truly ashamed (as I've said before in these forums) of how native peoples in this country have been treated. Of course, I'm just as ashamed of how native people's in a whole lot of other countries have been treated. Christian missionaries have, in my view, done untold harm around the world: Australia, New Zealand, Goa, New Guinea, all over Africa. But so has Muslim dawah (or "invitation to join"). Yes, it happens.

But -- it does no good whatever to try to evaluate the past through the mores of the present. Culture is an enormous part of everything humans do -- probably the biggest part. We have to consider what we -- you and and, as Canadians -- are doing now.

Blame is a convenient thing, and feels good sometimes -- to be able to hold someone else accountable. But blame accomplishes approximately nothing in making things better.

 

[Link]

And yes, that is true. I am also truly ashamed (as I've said before in these forums) of how native peoples in this country have been treated. Of course, I'm just as ashamed of how native people's in a whole lot of other countries have been treated. Christian missionaries have, in my view, done untold harm around the world: Australia, New Zealand, Goa, New Guinea, all over Africa. But so has Muslim dawah (or "invitation to join"). Yes, it happens.

But -- it does no good whatever to try to evaluate the past through the mores of the present. Culture is an enormous part of everything humans do -- probably the biggest part. We have to consider what we -- you and and, as Canadians -- are doing now.

Blame is a convenient thing, and feels good sometimes -- to be able to hold someone else accountable. But blame accomplishes approximately nothing in making things better.

I agree with you. I am ashamed of Muslim history including taking massive amount of women as slaves and putting them in the castles of Tyrant kahens as they conquered lands.

 

[rational experiences]

When just human men standing on the rock of their god. Know once it wasn't rock in space zero void vacuum. As God the one body rock one only.

Once burning cooling owning gases in space and yet not evolved like the body one heavens was now.

Where paradise nature garden was flowing water. As their given life place. Humans equal life.

Hardened their hearts against mutual love and human man equality with women. They did exactly what they confessed.

Their spiritual brother not a theist scientist with father said....I will name paradise our holy mothers life. Don't break the seals of rock. Virginal.

The woman life body biologically was created as sealed vagina was also sealed. Meant sexual abstinence itself was the highest man's wisdom in life.

Man however was not motivated towards sexual abstinence. As his chemical hormonal body was like the beasts.

He wanted sex. So he blamed the woman for how he felt. Yet he owned his man body and his man feelings.

The woman like a daughter then was virginal.

The holy truth and nothing but the truth.

So man hardened his holy soft heart of spirituality against the human woman's rights. And also God the rock seal. And became brother scientist destroyer. Built science. The unholy mountain against God...∆ pyramid.

In his cruelty he later then decided by his acts broken laws to throw actual rocks stones upon her human holy body. Just because he changed his mind and heart against the holy original nature.

His warnings.

Why earths stone burnt as God of a man theists past agreement to cause...the nature garden burnt...the life of animals humans were sacrificed. Life with God rock stone evicted.

Due to mans inconsistent ability to tell the holy truth as our life owned natural true origins.

 

[firedragon]

Salam

The hardened heart and arrogant soul, is like this. God can't reform such souls often, its rock falling and God cannot lift it, and the ball is in their court. Of course, if they reach out to God and do their part of believing in Him and humbling to him, God will respond if they respond.

But prayer is like a bow, and the action is like an arrow. Without action, the bow has no effect. You need the bow (prayer) to shoot and aim properly and for direction, push, and power, but if you don't do action, and don't embrace the help of God, it's impossible.

Thus even the great Surah Fatiha with Quran and it's place, often, does not save a soul from hell.

So many recite it, yet don't perceive it and envy those who God's Name/Favor/Straight path is upon and channeled to others including Jinn and who God completed his favor upon humanity and Jinn through.

They imagine their own explanation of what the favor and those bestowed are, despite Quran giving an explanation to all 7 of those verses and elaborating them.

Its a sad world.

Mohammad (s) is told if he can connect people of his time with a ladder to heaven or underground path from earth to heaven, to do so, but we see such souls will only become more rebellious, lost, and further away if he connects them to the heaven/sky and say they are a enchanted people and that Mohammad (s) is doing sorcery upon them.

@Bird123 and I are having a discussion about hell. I believe he believes reform of any soul is possible by God given enough time. To what I understand, things become impossible at a point. When the hardened soul to God's proof will be forced the proof, it will humble to it on the day of judgment, but never be more astray in hate of God and farness from God.

Its a component of why this world is what is. Why suffering exists. Why diseases exist. Why natural disasters happen. It is too frighten us and life is short so we take life seriously.

The laughing nature towards the sacredness of God's Names and Religion, is a symptom of dark magic. There is no rational reason for it.

Drink enough of intoxication from dark magic of Iblis, and reform of the heart becomes impossible. God created life and death with hell and heaven as the end result to push us fast towards him and make the journey fast and short towards him. So that we don't delay repentance and realize short life is not worth disobeying God and risking hell.

But alas, the irrational way people bet, and trade the path of ascension for temporary pleasures that are not that worthwhile and even if were are temporary....

It becomes in time, impossible to reform.

God cannot do the impossible.

Brother. Your topic heading is dependent upon your definition of God. If God is all powerful, he can lift anything. Which means it's an oxymoron to make the claim that God can create something that he cannot lift. It's the same as "Can God kill himself? Yes he can".

Can God seize to exist? Yes he can.

 

[ppp]

Salam

The hardened heart and arrogant soul, is like this. God can't reform such souls often, its rock falling and God cannot lift it, and the ball is in their court. Of course, if they reach out to God and do their part of believing in Him and humbling to him, God will respond if they respond.

But prayer is like a bow, and the action is like an arrow. Without action, the bow has no effect. You need the bow (prayer) to shoot and aim properly and for direction, push, and power, but if you don't do action, and don't embrace the help of God, it's impossible.

Thus even the great Surah Fatiha with Quran and it's place, often, does not save a soul from hell.

So many recite it, yet don't perceive it and envy those who God's Name/Favor/Straight path is upon and channeled to others including Jinn and who God completed his favor upon humanity and Jinn through.

They imagine their own explanation of what the favor and those bestowed are, despite Quran giving an explanation to all 7 of those verses and elaborating them.

Its a sad world.

Mohammad (s) is told if he can connect people of his time with a ladder to heaven or underground path from earth to heaven, to do so, but we see such souls will only become more rebellious, lost, and further away if he connects them to the heaven/sky and say they are a enchanted people and that Mohammad (s) is doing sorcery upon them.

@Bird123 and I are having a discussion about hell. I believe he believes reform of any soul is possible by God given enough time. To what I understand, things become impossible at a point. When the hardened soul to God's proof will be forced the proof, it will humble to it on the day of judgment, but never be more astray in hate of God and farness from God.

Its a component of why this world is what is. Why suffering exists. Why diseases exist. Why natural disasters happen. It is too frighten us and life is short so we take life seriously.

The laughing nature towards the sacredness of God's Names and Religion, is a symptom of dark magic. There is no rational reason for it.

Drink enough of intoxication from dark magic of Iblis, and reform of the heart becomes impossible. God created life and death with hell and heaven as the end result to push us fast towards him and make the journey fast and short towards him. So that we don't delay repentance and realize short life is not worth disobeying God and risking hell.

But alas, the irrational way people bet, and trade the path of ascension for temporary pleasures that are not that worthwhile and even if were are temporary....

It becomes in time, impossible to reform.

God cannot do the impossible.

My heat is not hardened. Theistic claims are simply not credible. They accuse me of having a hardened heart in order to excuse their failings.

 

[Tiberius]

Salam

The hardened heart and arrogant soul, is like this. God can't reform such souls often, its rock falling and God cannot lift it, and the ball is in their court. Of course, if they reach out to God and do their part of believing in Him and humbling to him, God will respond if they respond.

But prayer is like a bow, and the action is like an arrow. Without action, the bow has no effect. You need the bow (prayer) to shoot and aim properly and for direction, push, and power, but if you don't do action, and don't embrace the help of God, it's impossible.

Thus even the great Surah Fatiha with Quran and it's place, often, does not save a soul from hell.

So many recite it, yet don't perceive it and envy those who God's Name/Favor/Straight path is upon and channeled to others including Jinn and who God completed his favor upon humanity and Jinn through.

They imagine their own explanation of what the favor and those bestowed are, despite Quran giving an explanation to all 7 of those verses and elaborating them.

Its a sad world.

Mohammad (s) is told if he can connect people of his time with a ladder to heaven or underground path from earth to heaven, to do so, but we see such souls will only become more rebellious, lost, and further away if he connects them to the heaven/sky and say they are a enchanted people and that Mohammad (s) is doing sorcery upon them.

@Bird123 and I are having a discussion about hell. I believe he believes reform of any soul is possible by God given enough time. To what I understand, things become impossible at a point. When the hardened soul to God's proof will be forced the proof, it will humble to it on the day of judgment, but never be more astray in hate of God and farness from God.

Its a component of why this world is what is. Why suffering exists. Why diseases exist. Why natural disasters happen. It is too frighten us and life is short so we take life seriously.

The laughing nature towards the sacredness of God's Names and Religion, is a symptom of dark magic. There is no rational reason for it.

Drink enough of intoxication from dark magic of Iblis, and reform of the heart becomes impossible. God created life and death with hell and heaven as the end result to push us fast towards him and make the journey fast and short towards him. So that we don't delay repentance and realize short life is not worth disobeying God and risking hell.

But alas, the irrational way people bet, and trade the path of ascension for temporary pleasures that are not that worthwhile and even if were are temporary....

It becomes in time, impossible to reform.

God cannot do the impossible.

If God can only do things that are possible, then we must conclude that includes the universe as well. If the universe is possible, then we don't need a God to do it. After all, the formation of the universe MUST be possible according to the laws of logic. You could say that the formation of the universe is impossible unless God does it, but then it starts to sound like special pleading.

 

[1213]

...
God cannot do the impossible.

But, how would you know what is impossible? Certainly rock that God could not lift is not impossible for God.

 

[wellwisher]

One solution to the 2-D paradox; tree of knowledge, is to think in 3-D. God can first create rock that he cannot lift, today, but he can lift it tomorrow. Nobody mentioned not using a quantum gap in time to spread the trick out, like day and night, so he can have it both ways.

There is also a way to do this without a time sequence. It only requires omnipresence. Say God spread himself over the universe; move in distance independent of time. He then makes a bunch of little rocks everywhere.

God then comes to a focus and brings all the infinite little rocks together to make one infinite rock. Now God is in pseudo space-time unable to lift the infinite rock, since he is now closer to man; son of God. Next, he spreads himself out via his omnipresence, and makes the infinite rock become infinite little pieces, again, each of which is now liftable. In our reference they are always one thing.

It is question of moving between inertial reference and eternal reference so he can outsmart the humans via the limitation in their space-time reference.

The analogy is the Big Bang starts out as a singularity with the entire universe compressed like a point; infinite rock. God then says let there be light, and the infinite rock is spread out over space and time; space-time forms, so we have smaller size pieces; stars, none of which are infinite any longer.

Through omnipresence, he lifts all the pieces together at the same time, to keep then suspended in space line one thing. It is a question of using disconnected space-time where we have space without time and time without space and then space-time. I will be glad when physics catches up. I cannot make the math any easier.

 

[Fool]

All good is more worthy of being attributed to God as the source, while evil more worthy that we humans take responsibility. So who is good is by God's help and grace, while who is evil, is evil despite God's grace and help.

that which goes against all as good, is obviously service to self, or not a servant to all but only to self.

so the annihilation of self is to act unconditionally with love. because there is only heaven or hell. hell is a separation from god, or a separation from unconditional love.

 

[Bird123]

God controlling and being King in truth is better than others controlling and manipulating people. Humanity needs government and leadership.

No one likes being controlled. Is controlling and manipulating others really the best for them? Would not it be better to teach them and allow them to learn how to control themselves? Through God's system each will Discover for themselves what the best choices really are. At this point of development, one is able to walk on their own.

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. If you choose to try to control and manipulate others. Lessons will return to you in time. This is not punishment. It merely teaches you what your actions and choices really mean.

Instead, I would copy God. God places knowledge all around then allows this knowledge to be Discovered through the free will of His children. It is the road to perfection.

Let me change the subject a bit.
As I said, religion is mankind's attempt to Understand God. When all the facts are not known, people use beliefs to patch the gap. In order to make those beliefs fit, many place limits on God that does not exist. Example:Some say no one can communicate with God. They say only messengers can. This binds them to that religion. If God can communicate with messengers, God can communicate with anyone.

Some say God is helpless within the realm of free will. This supplies excuses for God. In reality they do not Understand God and what God is doing in this world. If a salesman or saleswoman can get you to do something you do not want, Is God really so helpless? Of course not.

Even you have placed limits on God, you say after death, God is unable to fix the kiddies. This is not true.

Beliefs spread all over the place. People see bad things in the world and do not want this to be the hand of God. In reality, they just do not Understand.

Everything about God and Everything about this world does add up. The knowledge stares us all in the face. The dynamics of God's system are Amazing!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[YoursTrue]

No one likes being controlled. Is controlling and manipulating others really the best for them? Would not it be better to teach them and allow them to learn how to control themselves? Through God's system each will Discover for themselves what the best choices really are. At this point of development, one is able to walk on their own.

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. If you choose to try to control and manipulate others. Lessons will return to you in time. This is not punishment. It merely teaches you what your actions and choices really mean.

Instead, I would copy God. God places knowledge all around then allows this knowledge to be Discovered through the free will of His children. It is the road to perfection.

Let me change the subject a bit.
As I said, religion is mankind's attempt to Understand God. When all the facts are not known, people use beliefs to patch the gap. In order to make those beliefs fit, many place limits on God that does not exist. Example:Some say no one can communicate with God. They say only messengers can. This binds them to that religion. If God can communicate with messengers, God can communicate with anyone.

Some say God is helpless within the realm of free will. This supplies excuses for God. In reality they do not Understand God and what God is doing in this world. If a salesman or saleswoman can get you to do something you do not want, Is God really so helpless? Of course not.

Even you have placed limits on God, you say after death, God is unable to fix the kiddies. This is not true.

Beliefs spread all over the place. People see bad things in the world and do not want this to be the hand of God. In reality, they just do not Understand.

Everything about God and Everything about this world does add up. The knowledge stares us all in the face. The dynamics of God's system are Amazing!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Parents are generally considered responsible for their children.

 

[Link]

No one likes being controlled. Is controlling and manipulating others really the best for them? Would not it be better to teach them and allow them to learn how to control themselves? Through God's system each will Discover for themselves what the best choices really are. At this point of development, one is able to walk on their own.

Salam

We either submit to something higher or we follow chaotic desires that lead no where good. I don't think if we are left to ourselves, we discover the best choices. The thing we will learn is that we need God's guidance and always needed it. Also, connecting to God through invisible connectors (Ahlulbayt) is something needed to see God and ascend to him proplerly.

 

[Link]

Even you have placed limits on God, you say after death, God is unable to fix the kiddies. This is not true.

We are having a discussion on this, but this is part of the paradigm of hell in Quran, that reform is too late:



I will do good, mere word

لَعَلِّي أَعْمَلُ صَالِحًا فِيمَا تَرَكْتُ ۚ كَلَّا ۚ إِنَّهَا كَلِمَةٌ هُوَ قَائِلُهَا ۖ وَمِنْ وَرَائِهِمْ بَرْزَخٌ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ يُبْعَثُونَ | that I may act righteously in what I have left behind.’ ‘By no means! These are mere words that he says.’ And before them is a barrier until the day they will be resurrected. | Al-Muminoon : 100


They are liars now and won't be able to fulfill their pledge

وَلَوْ تَرَىٰ إِذْ وُقِفُوا عَلَى النَّارِ فَقَالُوا يَا لَيْتَنَا نُرَدُّ وَلَا نُكَذِّبَ بِآيَاتِ رَبِّنَا وَنَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ | Were you to see when they are brought to a halt by the Fire, whereupon they will say, ‘If only we were sent back [into the world]! Then we will not deny the signs of our Lord, and we will be among the faithful!’ | Al-An'aam : 27


بَلْ بَدَا لَهُمْ مَا كَانُوا يُخْفُونَ مِنْ قَبْلُ ۖ وَلَوْ رُدُّوا لَعَادُوا لِمَا نُهُوا عَنْهُ وَإِنَّهُمْ لَكَاذِبُونَ | Indeed, what they used to hide before has now become evident to them. But were they to be sent back they would revert to what they were forbidden, and they are indeed liars. | Al-An'aam : 28

Broke promise once, will break promise again

وَأَنْذِرِ النَّاسَ يَوْمَ يَأْتِيهِمُ الْعَذَابُ فَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا رَبَّنَا أَخِّرْنَا إِلَىٰ أَجَلٍ قَرِيبٍ نُجِبْ دَعْوَتَكَ وَنَتَّبِعِ الرُّسُلَ ۗ أَوَلَمْ تَكُونُوا أَقْسَمْتُمْ مِنْ قَبْلُ مَا لَكُمْ مِنْ زَوَالٍ | Warn the people of the day when the punishment will overtake them, whereat the wrongdoers will say, ‘Our Lord! Respite us for a short time so that we may respond to Your call and follow the apostles.’ [They will be told,] ‘Did you not swear earlier? There is no possibility of reverse for you, | Ibrahim : 44

This thread might or might not interest you: The Quran's framework for hell. | Religious Forums

 

[rational experiences]

What about mother of God?

Space isn't a rock so you can't lift it.

Space formed the rock by not giving it a space.....sucked out its radiations to stop it's spread.

God was the rock said man theist as mother of God. You can't have one without two causes.

 

[Link]

If God can only do things that are possible, then we must conclude that includes the universe as well. If the universe is possible, then we don't need a God to do it. After all, the formation of the universe MUST be possible according to the laws of logic. You could say that the formation of the universe is impossible unless God does it, but then it starts to sound like special pleading.

Salam

I would imagine how you guys imagine "universe to be possible" are not really possible universes. This is the problem with atheists and problem of evil.

 

[Link]

As I said, religion is mankind's attempt to Understand God. When all the facts are not known, people use beliefs to patch the gap. In order to make those beliefs fit, many place limits on God that does not exist. Example:Some say no one can communicate with God. They say only messengers can. This binds them to that religion. If God can communicate with messengers, God can communicate with anyone.

Salam

He can and does speak with people who are not chosen. I believe God spoke to me at a few pivotal moments in my life... So I don't deny this.

The issue is about who can represent God and bring what God wills with proof to everyone. For that, you need to have proof and be proof from God. Those are his chosen ones.

Quran says "so let them bring their hearing with proof".

 

[Bird123]

Parents are generally considered responsible for their children.

Yes, parents have a responsibility to teach and take care of their children. On the other hand, people or parents cannot guaranty the actions of another.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Salam

We either submit to something higher or we follow chaotic desires that lead no where good. I don't think if we are left to ourselves, we discover the best choices. The thing we will learn is that we need God's guidance and always needed it. Also, connecting to God through invisible connectors (Ahlulbayt) is something needed to see God and ascend to him proplerly.

Free choice is not about submitting. Even chaotic choices will, in time, lead to the results where one will learn what not to do if nothing else.

God isn't about Beliefs. God is about what is. I do not know what you refer to as invisible connectors. As for ascending properly, there is no wrong way to advance to God or a Higher Level.

In a multilevel classroom ,as we have on this world today, one will see others learning lessons we have already learned. You ask yourself: " How could they ever choose to do what they do"? Is this really the time to value those petty things of Blaming, Hating, Judging, Condemning, Manipulating, Coercing and such? Of course not!! This is the time to place truth and knowledge around them and pointing them in the right direction.

Problems never go away until they are Solved. Petty things people value only create Anger and Hate which leads away from God and the Best results.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!