Some good two-steppin'!
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Can Jewish law be fulfilled?
- Thread starter fallingblood
- Start date
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
and this is why I said he is partly correct, but he's using the wrong reasoning.
Paul did believed the law was a burden. Correct. This was because of the way the religious leaders were applying it and he knew very well how strictly they were applying it because, as i said, he was a trained pharisee.
Was Paul obsessed with his failures. No. He was very aware of his failings, but certainly not obsessed with them.
Did Paul leave Judaism due to wanting a way out of the mosaic law? No, not at all. Paul became convinced that Jesus was the promised Messiah and he certainly did not view himself as leaving Judaism. Christ was as much a part of Judaism as the Mosaic law itself.. Paul accepted that the Jewish Messiah had arrived and in harmony with the law, he followed the Messiah as the Law directed. Deut 18:15 “The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet from among your own people, like myself; him you shall heed.”
And Paul believed the law when it said that the Messiah would put an end to laws regulations and cleanse away 'sin'
Daniel 9:27 “And he must keep [the] covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease..."
Daniel 9:24 “There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite
So Paul wasnt looking for a way out of law at all... he understood that the law must reside on the heart of the individual... not in a set of prescriptions that can make one 'appear' righteous - righteousness had to stem from the heart and the only way to discover what is in a persons heart is to take away those 'requirements' and see who is willing to continue to apply Gods law when they are not forced to.
free spirit
Well-Known Member
You are so wrong about Paul an apostle of Jesus Christ.
Galatians 5: 1-8
It was for freedom FROM THE LAW that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is under obligation to keep the whole law.
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the spirit, by faith, are waiting for the MANIFESTATION of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?
8 This persuasion did not come from him who calls you.
Anless you consider Paul also a liar, in that case there is nothing more to say.
free spirit
Well-Known Member
No it doesn't sound right but it is true, To fulfil the law Christ had to lie down his wordly life. I believe it was his mission of love for us all. This is how I believe it appened.
THE WILL OF GOD AND THAT OF THE HIGH PRIEST
We ought to know the difference between the foreknowledge of an event and the actual will of God: for we read in Matthew 26:42: “He went away again a second time and prayed saying, ‘My father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Thy will be done.’”
As we read the above verse we can be forgiven if we think that God’s will was for Jesus to be executed, and if we think that, then the high priest was only doing God’s will, and if that is so we should also be screaming, “Crucify, crucify Him!” Therefore it is in the interest and integrity of our faith to understand God’s will from the high priest’s will, because those two wills appear to be intertwined but in fact they are separate and distinct.
The important thing to understand for the sake of our holy faith is that God’s foreknowledge allowed Him to use the evil deed of the high priest for his own purpose, but He (God) had nothing to do with bringing it about, otherwise the high priest would no longer be acting alone or by his own free will.
We all know that the high priest’s will was to have Jesus put to death by execution, for we read in John 11:48-50: “’If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.’ But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, ‘You know nothing at all, nor do you take into account that it is expedient for us that one man should die xxxxxxxxxxx and that the whole nation should not perish.’”
The above verses make the reasoning and intention of the high priest clear. He is mainly afraid that his influential position and the Jewish religion will be abolished by the Romans because they all thought that if Jesus was not stopped, eventually the entire congregation would believe in Him and there would be no longer any need for their office and their religion (or nation.) In a nutshell we can confidently say that the high priest had Jesus put to death so that his influential office and the Jewish religion could continue its existence.
By that knowledge alone we now understand that Jesus’ execution was solely the will of the high priest and his associates and God had nothing to do with that decision. Nevertheless, He did not interfere to save His Son or alleviate His sufferings. At this point we all should ask ourselves, why Jesus had to pay for our sins with His life? The answer is found in Matthew 5:17, for Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfil.”
We know that all the prophecies that were written about Him in the Old Testament were fulfilled as His life unfolded. But how could Jesus fulfil the law? I believe that in order to fulfil the law He had to die sinless. For we read in Hebrews 9:27: “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.” It stands to reason that only after death can the judgement be final, because only then men can no longer sin.
We know that Adam could not keep one simple law (Genesis 2:17) and as a consequence mankind had to die. But Jesus, a type of Adam, kept all of the law, despite the temptation within Himself to escape death, as well as the temptation to respond to those who inflicted on Him excruciating pain and verbal abuses. Yet in all that agonising time He did not utter one single complaint or accusing word, but blessed them by forgiving them. Because of that He fulfilled the law (or accomplished God’s will). In consequence He reversed what Adam did, therefore now the entire human race has justification of life.
We should know that much more than justification of life awaits the believers who, through the spirit of Christ, become the adopted sons and daughters of God for we read in Acts 2:33, 38 and 41: ‘”Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear’… And Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and let each of you be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit’… So then, those who had received his word were baptised; and there were added that day about three thousand souls.” So, through the Holy Spirit that was given to us, we know that the fulfilment of the law is the true irreversible outcome of His sacrificial mission, for we also read in 1Corinthians 2:10: “For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.”
The following allegorical illustrationshould clarify God’s will regarding the mission given to Jesus. It will also clearly define Jesus’ sacrificial mission of love.
Let us imagine that during wartime there are many missions to be carried out against the enemy and all of them contain some risk of possible loss of some of those who are taking part in the mission. At other times the mission is so risky that they call for volunteers; the mission is such that the probability of survival is nil, but it has to be done. In this case the commander is sacrificing a small, willing number of men for the greater good of the cause.
The question we should ask ourselves is this: Is it the commander’s will to have those men killed? Or is it the commander’s will that the mission be accomplished? If your answer is what I think it is, now apply the same formula to God’s will regarding the mission given to Jesus.
John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that He sacrificed His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.” So God willingly sacrificed His Son for the greater good of humanity. Our thanks must go to God and to Jesus who successfully carried out the sacrificial mission of fulfilling the law. Hence, our believing in His life and in His triumph over the temptation of sinful flesh now saves us. Furthermore, we have been fully assured that He has gracefully donated to us His triumph over sin in the flesh through the gift of His Holy Spirit, so that we now can also resist temptation and live holy lives.
Certainly we can now live holy lives! It is confirmed in Luke 1:73-75, where we read: “The oath, which He swore to Abraham our father, to grant us that we, being delivered from the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxpower of sin might serve Him without fear. In holiness and righteousness before Him all of our days.”
The understanding of the above scripture is a trustworthy rendering as we read in 1Corinthians 15:56: “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.” So we can now confidently say that Jesus, by dying sinless, fulfilled the law and consequently stripped sin (our enemy) of its power.
Glory to God
It is like if the policeman has no law he has no power to accuse you.
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:clap Well said! . .but no surprise in that. . .it's the Word of God written.
There is absolutely no truth is what Agellous is saying.
He says, link following, that "the whole idea of the law being an unfulfillable burden comes from Paul's obsession with his failures. . .
that it's Paul's intellectual rationale for leaving Judaism and forming (himself, unauthorized by Jesus) a way to keep the law without punishing himself. . .so this law which was set aside
because the Levitical priesthood on which it was based was set aside, Paul formed a way to keep?. . .by seeking "solace" in the "Jesus movement?"
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2325953-post947.html
This contradicts Paul's whole gospel, that law-keeping and grace through faith in Jesus Christ are mutally exclusive, each automatically shuts out the possibility of the other.
And not-with-standing his powerful. . .blinding. . .transforming conversion on the road to Damascus. . .his revelations from Jesus Christ, personally. . .none of these
had anything to do with Paul's theology? . .it was just an "intellectual rationale for leaving Judaism? . .to find solace in the Jesus movement?"
What a load of sophomoric crap! . .what a load of gospel-eradicating heresy. . .born of ignorance of, and unbelief of, the NT. . .trying to pass itself off as "Biblical scholarship". . .not in my neck o' the woods! . .that dog won't hunt!
The real BS going on here is the gospel-eradicating heresies of Angellous. . .why does he call himself Christian when he doesn't even believe the orthodox gospel of salvation by faith alone in Jesus Christ. . .no law-keeping involved? . .right standing with God through law-keeping is not Christianity. . .
that's 100% gospel-eradicating heresy!
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
You've misunderstood me, Pegg.
I said that Paul was obsessed with following the law before he became a Christian... that's precisely why he taught that Christ sets us free.
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angellous_evangellous
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angellous_evangellous
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angellous_evangellous
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Haven't you read this thread?
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/philosophy/82099-why-angellous-not-christian.html
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
Repeating yourself makes for very boring reading.
I don't find that kind of material edifying. . .so I try to avoid it. . .
Yeah, we know. . .you prefer sophomoric heretical conjectures. . .
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
Well, it offers a direct response to your question.
You're not the first intellectually bankrupt evangelical who has attacked my faith.:no:
I just created a thread for all of you.
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
I get enough of that from you. :biglaugh:
You can understand why I don't want to read it again (edit) and again (edit) and again (edit).
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
Repent! For the kingdom of leaven is here!
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angellous_evangellous
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Physician, heal thyself.
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angellous_evangellous
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cogito ergo erratum