Can Life Be Made Fair?

[ThePainefulTruth]

No matter how hard we try to make things fair for everybody, it's impossible. People aren't created the same, we all want different things, and even when we try to approximate a degree of genuine fairness, who decides what fair is and what methods are use to attain it?--especially when unscrupulous people get involved...and they always get involved.

The only thing that is fair is that we're all mortal, no exceptions. Everybody dies. The fairest we can make things for everybody to have equal rights, but only 90-99% of a given population will agree on that. There is always evil. There are always those who want to watch the world burn.

Then, what about the possibility of a hereafter? Is it possible to make things universally fair then, given all the disparate individuals that live and die? Who better to judge than all those individuals judging themselves? There's a movie, A Girl Like Her, about a high school student who is secretly filmed being a bully to one of her classmates and a former friend. Like so many of us, if not all of us, she's very good at rationalizing and lying to herself. But when a TV reporter receives the secret videos, she shows them to the girl by herself, and it causes her great distress. The hard Truth of the videos and the knowledge that people she respected had seen them, finally made the Truth of who she was and what she'd done, unbearably undeniable.

It's a good analogy for the judgement we may face in the hereafter. So should we only play our lives out with an eye on that Great Gettin' Up Mornin'? No. Whether that judgement happens in an afterlife or not, it still festers and metastasizes in our subconscious psyches in this life, causing us an internal stress in the effort to deny it, which adds to the subconscious anxiety of our neuroses and psychoses, which are almost always a result of an irrational outlook, where irrationality is a denial of Truth.

If we were immortal, we wouldn't be able to bear it, which is the ultimate point of judgement whether it occurs in this life, or the next. But hell would only be acceptable to the vindictive sadists who invented it in the first place, and with judgement making them the intended fodder for Hell's flames. It would be an bearable cacophony in heaven. Oblivion would be the only humane solution.

 

[Nakosis]

I think to choose to treat people fairly without bias is something we can strive for. This doesn't necessarily make life fair but it can make us fair in how we personally deal with others.

I believe the only judgement you face is when you look back at your own life. It's difficult but a lot we do in ignorance. What you've done in ignorance you can forgive yourself for. Where a person has intentionally gone out of their way to harm others, that's going to be tough.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I think to choose to treat people fairly without bias is something we can strive for.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing as equal rights for all?

I believe the only judgement you face is when you look back at your own life. It's difficult but a lot we do in ignorance. What you've done in ignorance you can forgive yourself for. Where a person has intentionally gone out of their way to harm others, that's going to be tough.

By ignorance do you mean accidents? If not, what's an example of doing evil through ignorance?

 

[LuisDantas]

It is definitely possible to make life fair, as long as we accept to let go of delusions of deserving immortality or certain forms of security, and we learn to be at peace with the price to be paid.

Admittedly, those are significant restrictions, not likely to be met in the next few decades, or perhaps ever.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

It is definitely possible to make life fair, as long as we accept to let go of delusions of deserving immortality or certain forms of security, and we learn to be at peace with the price to be paid.

Huh?

 

[Mycroft]

It's easy to complain that the world isn't fair. But then...what if the world were fair? And all of the terrible things that happen to us do so because we actually deserve them?

I think there's a certain comfort to be derived from the indifference of life toward our fortunes and misfortunes.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

It's easy to complain that the world isn't fair. But then...what if the world were fair? And all of the terrible things that happen to us do so because we actually deserve them?

I think there's a certain comfort to be derived from the indifference of life toward our fortunes and misfortunes.

Yes, because otherwise we wouldn't be our own selves, we wouldn't have free will if things were set up to be fair. If we had no choice but to be fair, we would have no choice.

 

[Mycroft]

Yes, because otherwise we wouldn't be our own selves, we wouldn't have free will if things were set up to be fair. If we had no choice but to be fair, we would have no choice.

You don't have free will anyway.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

You don't have free will anyway.

Then you deny the comfort you just claimed.

 

[Mycroft]

Then you deny the comfort you just claimed.

Not really. The mechanistic nature of life doesn't have fairness or unfairness, it has indifference only.

 

[Nakosis]

Isn't that pretty much the same thing as equal rights for all?

I meant you personally can make this choice. I wouldn't know how to go about forcing this on others so there would actually exist equal rights for all.

By ignorance do you mean accidents? If not, what's an example of doing evil through ignorance?

Despite people thinking that they know right from wrong, I think it is still a bit of a crapshoot. Especially when you're young and inexperienced. Some may have thought supporting Hitler was the right thing to do. I don't think anyone has all the answers so we end up making mistakes.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Not really. The mechanistic nature of life doesn't have fairness or unfairness, it has indifference only.

But you still have the ability to love your neighbor or not; or to kill him....or not.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I meant you personally can make this choice. I wouldn't know how to go about forcing this on others so there would actually exist equal rights for all.

The law is the only way I know of, but a justice system is only as good as the people in it, as well as the integrity of the general population.

Despite people thinking that they know right from wrong, I think it is still a bit of a crapshoot. Especially when you're young and inexperienced. Some may have thought supporting Hitler was the right thing to do. I don't think anyone has all the answers so we end up making mistakes.

Well, I have the general outline, but that still wouldn't keep people from doing evil and I don't expect it to be 100% possible, or 100% impossible. The problem is all the crap that's been added to the very few simple things that are involved in morality. So much of what we call morality is actually individually determined virtue.

 

[Mycroft]

But you still have the ability to love your neighbor or not; or to kill him....or not.

A person may die from an accident, and another cry unfairness to the stars. Would they prefer it had been a fair death? And their loved one taken away because they deserved it?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

A person may die from an accident, and another cry unfairness to the stars. Would they prefer it had been a fair death? And their loved one taken away because they deserved it?

They only think it's unfair if they believe God could have prevented it. Atheism and deism take the "why?" out of the disasters of life which otherwise adds to our grief.

 

[Sir Doom]

No matter how hard we try to make things fair for everybody, it's impossible.

How hard have you tried? Was that as hard as you could have tried? Do you suspect that you are the person that tries the hardest?

I suggest you speak for yourself as opposed to lumping the rest of us in with your failure to achieve fairness for everybody.

People aren't created the same, we all want different things, and even when we try to approximate a degree of genuine fairness, who decides what fair is and what methods are use to attain it?

You and me and everyone else decides. You might have a different idea of what is fair than I do, but that doesn't automatically mean you are failing to be fair. In fact, it means the opposite.

--especially when unscrupulous people get involved...and they always get involved.

Worse than the people who care nothing for fairness are those that pretend its impossible to achieve, throw their hands in the air, and resign themselves to defeat.

The only thing that is fair is that we're all mortal, no exceptions. Everybody dies.

I've never died. Is that fair or unfair?

The fairest we can make things for everybody to have equal rights, but only 90-99% of a given population will agree on that. There is always evil. There are always those who want to watch the world burn.

Evil exists because people keep thinking about it.

Then, what about the possibility of a hereafter? Is it possible to make things universally fair then, given all the disparate individuals that live and die? Who better to judge than all those individuals judging themselves? There's a movie, A Girl Like Her, about a high school student who is secretly filmed being a bully to one of her classmates and a former friend. Like so many of us, if not all of us, she's very good at rationalizing and lying to herself. But when a TV reporter receives the secret videos, she shows them to the girl by herself, and it causes her great distress. The hard Truth of the videos and the knowledge that people she respected had seen them, finally made the Truth of who she was and what she'd done, unbearably undeniable.

It's a good analogy for the judgement we may face in the hereafter. So should we only play our lives out with an eye on that Great Gettin' Up Mornin'? No. Whether that judgement happens in an afterlife or not, it still festers and metastasizes in our subconscious psyches in this life, causing us an internal stress in the effort to deny it, which adds to the subconscious anxiety of our neuroses and psychoses, which are almost always a result of an irrational outlook, where irrationality is a denial of Truth.

I don't care much about the afterlife. Being fair matters right now, in this life.

If we were immortal, we wouldn't be able to bear it, which is the ultimate point of judgement whether it occurs in this life, or the next.

Again, I suggest you speak for yourself. I welcome the challenge to bear the 'burden' of immortality. If someone is handing it out, you send them my way, alright?

But hell would only be acceptable to the vindictive sadists who invented it in the first place, and with judgement making them the intended fodder for Hell's flames. It would be an bearable cacophony in heaven. Oblivion would be the only humane solution.

Yeah, I don't get what you are aiming at. Are you saying oblivion would be better than Heaven or Hell? I can see Hell... but Heaven? I mean, I don't really believe in Heaven, but that doesn't make oblivion somehow 'more humane'.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

How hard have you tried? Was that as hard as you could have tried? Do you suspect that you are the person that tries the hardest?

It's like learning that no matter "how hard you try", you can't ever negate gravity--though there are some who will always claim that it's possible if we try hard enough. Not it this life.

I suggest you speak for yourself as opposed to lumping the rest of us in with your failure to achieve fairness for everybody.

You've achieved it? Do tell.

You and me and everyone else decides.

Judges, not decides. There's a difference.

Worse than the people who care nothing for fairness are those that pretend its impossible to achieve, throw their hands in the air, and resign themselves to defeat.

Not so. I recognize that all people should have equal rights even though that doesn't make them born with equal abilities. It's the people who try to legislate fairness (sincerely and otherwise) that trample those equal rights for all into the ground.

I've never died. Is that fair or unfair?

So, you descended to quibbling about timing. When your born, how long you live, and the degree of abilities you're born with isn't "fair"; but the fact that we all end up as dust no matter who we are, is. It's just a restatement of the old adage that you can't take it with you.

Evil exists because people keep thinking about it.

We ALL think about it, but only some of us act on it.

I don't care much about the afterlife. Being fair matters right now, in this life.

And the fairest you can make things is with equal rights for all. But I suspect that's not what you want at all, but rather to define "fairness" to your advantage.

Yeah, I don't get what you are aiming at. Are you saying oblivion would be better than Heaven or Hell?

I think, I know, you knew the answer to that before you even asked it.

I can see Hell... but Heaven? I mean, I don't really believe in Heaven, but that doesn't make oblivion somehow 'more humane'.

Oblivion would not be more humane than burning in hell forever? I can only believe you're flailing and grasping at straws for a cohesive thought here.

 

[Maponos]

No matter how hard we try to make things fair for everybody, it's impossible. People aren't created the same, we all want different things, and even when we try to approximate a degree of genuine fairness, who decides what fair is and what methods are use to attain it?--especially when unscrupulous people get involved...and they always get involved.

The only thing that is fair is that we're all mortal, no exceptions. Everybody dies..

I pretty much agree with this. I think most people are caught up in ideologies that are borne from a misguided or suicidal altruism. They often forget that the most revolting acts any human can muster is entirely natural. Not that it's acceptable, but because we, as humans, are capable of it.

It all boils down to natural selection. Natural selection is cruel and unfeeling. It chooses the best to survive and leads the strong to rule over the weak.

At the end of the day, life is about survival and not being fair. That doesn't mean we have to reduce ourselves to such a base state because we are intelligent/sapient beings but that is our most primal instinct.

 

[Levite]

No matter how hard we try to make things fair for everybody, it's impossible. People aren't created the same, we all want different things, and even when we try to approximate a degree of genuine fairness, who decides what fair is and what methods are use to attain it?--especially when unscrupulous people get involved...and they always get involved.

The only thing that is fair is that we're all mortal, no exceptions. Everybody dies. The fairest we can make things for everybody to have equal rights, but only 90-99% of a given population will agree on that. There is always evil. There are always those who want to watch the world burn.

Then, what about the possibility of a hereafter? Is it possible to make things universally fair then, given all the disparate individuals that live and die? Who better to judge than all those individuals judging themselves? There's a movie, A Girl Like Her, about a high school student who is secretly filmed being a bully to one of her classmates and a former friend. Like so many of us, if not all of us, she's very good at rationalizing and lying to herself. But when a TV reporter receives the secret videos, she shows them to the girl by herself, and it causes her great distress. The hard Truth of the videos and the knowledge that people she respected had seen them, finally made the Truth of who she was and what she'd done, unbearably undeniable.

It's a good analogy for the judgement we may face in the hereafter. So should we only play our lives out with an eye on that Great Gettin' Up Mornin'? No. Whether that judgement happens in an afterlife or not, it still festers and metastasizes in our subconscious psyches in this life, causing us an internal stress in the effort to deny it, which adds to the subconscious anxiety of our neuroses and psychoses, which are almost always a result of an irrational outlook, where irrationality is a denial of Truth.

If we were immortal, we wouldn't be able to bear it, which is the ultimate point of judgement whether it occurs in this life, or the next. But hell would only be acceptable to the vindictive sadists who invented it in the first place, and with judgement making them the intended fodder for Hell's flames. It would be an bearable cacophony in heaven. Oblivion would be the only humane solution.

Life is not fair. And life cannot be made truly and completely fair: even if we could universally alter the aspects of human behavior that cause us to be unfair to one another, we could not alter the chaotic and random elements of nature that inevitably result in events that will be deemed unfair to one person or another.

The best that we can do is to try and make things as fair as might reasonably be attained, and to create societies in which, when unfair things happen to people, others are there to help them if possible, and to be supportive if not.

Waiting for some sort of equalization or justification, or some kind of ultimate clarity of judgment, in an afterlife-- however one conceives of an afterlife-- is merely avoidance of the suffering of others and the responsibility that all human beings have to help one another.

We cannot make this a perfect world. But we can make it a far, far better world. And that should be our goal.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I pretty much agree with this. I think most people are caught up in ideologies that are borne from a misguided or suicidal altruism. They often forget that the most revolting acts any human can muster is entirely natural. Not that it's acceptable, but because we, as humans, are capable of it.

It all boils down to natural selection. Natural selection is cruel and unfeeling. It chooses the best to survive and leads the strong to rule over the weak.

At the end of the day, life is about survival and not being fair. That doesn't mean we have to reduce ourselves to such a base state because we are intelligent/sapient beings but that is our most primal instinct.

I agree, but our ace in the hole is that humans have created, through natural selection, thousands and thousands of paths on which to be superior. I've thought a lot about intelligence and through that alone there are many different paths. I think there are so many different types of intelligence (most of which we don't study, measure or recognize) and combinations of them, that no one can be good at them all. But that conclusion is based strictly on anecdotal evidence.

Yes, we need compassion, but we must guard against our compassion being abused and exploited as well.

The best that we can do is to try and make things as fair as might reasonably be attained, and to create societies in which, when unfair things happen to people, others are there to help them if possible, and to be supportive if not.

Again, the fairest we can make things is through making our basic, minimal rights equal for all. Doing that provides the greatest freedom, but also the greatest responsibility. The one overriding necessity is integrity in government and even more importantly, in the people.

Waiting for some sort of equalization or justification, or some kind of ultimate clarity of judgment, in an afterlife-- however one conceives of an afterlife-- is merely avoidance of the suffering of others and the responsibility that all human beings have to help one another.

I agree that we must live without regard to whether there's a God or an afterlife or not. It does help, however, to do things you know you're going to look back on during your life (hopefully with pride) all the way up to the end. If you believe in a hereafter, and there turns out to be one, so much the better; it's just that there's no way to know until you get there, which would be part of the test. What choices do we make when no one is watching....and when everyone is. That's free will.