Can Mystical Experiences Be Communicated to Non-Mystics?

[Sunstone]

Is it possible to communicate what a mystical experience is like to a non-mystic? Please discuss rather than debate.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

A wise man once told me, recently that is , that he was a mystic, ever since then he hardly ever went on the internet chat anymore...

But when he did, one day I asked him "What was your mystical experience?"

He told me that it was impossible for me to get the full understanding of it. So I told him tell me the best he could.

He said then, the quote I remember and hold greatly, "Explaining a mystical experience to on that did not have one, is like explaining color to a man born blind."


Although, it got me wondering... I think you can describe it though it is very, very hard, and it is impossible for the one non-mystic to understand.

 

[Breathe]

Is it possible to communicate what a mystical experience is like to a non-mystic? Please discuss rather than debate.

Honestly, I don't think they can. Not satisfactorily anyway.

It's like describing the taste of mango to one who has never eaten it.

 

[YmirGF]

Is it possible to communicate what a mystical experience is like to a non-mystic? Please discuss rather than debate.

There are aspects of mystical experience that cannot be rendered into verbal terms, however that does not mean that all mystical experience cannot be rendered into a suitable form for non-mystical consumption. Given the body of thought that is available, going back thousands of years, it would appear that most mystics agree. My guess is that mystical experiences gave rise to the legends of gods and their amusing antics.

The myth-making was a conscious effort to explain via parables and fables, aspects of identity that human animals could relate to. For emphasis, these gods were given human attributes which later was reversed as the gods became generally accepted, so that the gods had the attributes that we inherited albeit in a watered down version.

Mystical experience shatters the myths for the individual even as they work through them. Some who go down the mystical path get side-tracked for prolonged periods where others intuitively leapfrog layers of reality.

Well, then again, to some, I am the village idiot, a veritable loony-tune, who doesn't know the first thing about genuine mystical experience. I try not to forget that but it does help to keep me laughing.

 

[LuisDantas]

I can't really tell. But it seems to me that there is some agreement that some of them, at least, are like a sense of urgency coupled with a realization that there is no need to truly worry about how things will ultimately turn out.

Then again, I am not sure that it is not dangerous to have an imperfect understanding of mystical experiences. I'm personally wary of half-hearted assimilation of religious concepts.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It is my understanding that mystical experiences result from direct apprehension in whole-mindedness (non-subject-object), whereas the mind of a non-mystic has not yet experienced any for reason that their mind experiences result from relative comprehension by reasoning (mind divided into subject -object).

So it would seem to me that not only would the non-mystic not be able to replicate the experience if it were to be conveyed, the mystic also could not wholly convert the experience in any conceptual communication in the first place.

 

[sandandfoam]

Is it possible to communicate what a mystical experience is like to a non-mystic? Please discuss rather than debate.

I think that's what great art does.
Yeates especially has it nailed. I think the 'Memory' conveys a mystical experience

One had a lovely face,
And two or three had charm,
But charm and face were in vain
Because the mountain grass
Cannot but keep the form
Where the mountain hare has lain

 

[no-body]

No. The Mystic can only point and hit over the head with a stick.

I think when you try to intellectualize mysticism all you are really doing it is romanticizing it. Which has its place, but only up to a point.

 

[YmirGF]

I think when you try to intellectualize mysticism all you are really doing it is romanticizing it. Which has its place, but only up to a point.

I do agree, to a point, but still there is much that mystics say that is designed to tantalize the mind/spirit of the mystically-challenged human animal. My understanding is that psychological triggers, such as with koans, serve to awaken the mystically-challenged to forces within themselves that they are, as of yet, unaware. In a sense, mystics employ psychological "slight of hand".

That leads me to the question, "Should we take what mystics say with more than a few grains of salt?"

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Is it possible to communicate what a mystical experience is like to a non-mystic? Please discuss rather than debate.

Inevitably there are gaps between communicating an experience vs. experiencing that experience. It begs the question of whether or not the communication is useful. It can be, certainly. While it is helpful to listen to someone who is relatively established in the arts of mysticism, it will only make sense to those who are already listening well enough to hear what is being transmitted.

For me, the straw that broke the camel's spine was the moment I figured out that what is being transmitted matters much, much less than what is being heard.

I'm not firmly established yet...only a journeyman of the arts. I still have a lot of traveling to do.

:canoe:

 

[Sunstone]

I do agree, to a point, but still there is much that mystics say that is designed to tantalize the mind/spirit of the mystically-challenged human animal. My understanding is that psychological triggers, such as with koans, serve to awaken the mystically-challenged to forces within themselves that they are, as of yet, unaware. In a sense, mystics employ psychological "slight of hand".

That leads me to the question, "Should we take what mystics say with more than a few grains of salt?"

Excellent post. Of course, I am tempted to flame you, Paul, because that appears to be all the rage these days -- "Let's flame Paul cause we know god more and better than he does! Yessum!" Where the hell is that guy, anyway? He seems to have disappeared.

 

[Witch9]

Can Mystical Experiences Be Communicated to Non-Mystics?

Communicated? Yes, someone could tell you about them, people have written books about them. But, have you noticed how communications can be taken so differently from one person to another? Often not really reflecting what the communicator intended?

originally posted by The Sum of Awe
He said then, the quote I remember and hold greatly, "Explaining a mystical experience to one that did not have one, is like explaining color to a man born blind."

Or sound to someone born deaf. Or . . .

And don't forget that one person's mystical experience could be just another sunset to someone else.

No matter how hard I try, I can only imagine what another's experience was, just as they can only imagine mine.

 

[YmirGF]

And don't forget that one person's mystical experience could be just another sunset to someone else.

That made me laugh, then again, almost everything makes me laugh... I digress... What most do not understand is that sniffing a lovely cup of coffee could trigger a mystical experience. Smelling a flower. Looking at a spider's web, coated in dew drops... In theory, anything can be a trigger for the adventurous.

No matter how hard I try, I can only imagine what another's experience was, just as they can only imagine mine.

Imagination plays a much larger role than many would suppose, methinks. :flirt:

 

[Quagmire]

I think that's what great art does.
Yeates especially has it nailed. I think the 'Memory' conveys a mystical experience

I strongly agree, Stephen. To put it another way "The Tao that can be spoken of is not the Tao, the Tao that can be played on the harmonica, might be".

Inevitably there are gaps between communicating an experience vs. experiencing that experience. It begs the question of whether or not the communication is useful.

I think that's the wonderful things about art, myth included: some might be able to intuit or even reason out the message, for those who don't or can't, it's still art and it still has value in that sense.

Also, even those who don't consciously grasp the message immediately may develop some understanding on the sub-conscious or emotional level (it may "plant a seed").

It can be, certainly. While it is helpful to listen to someone who is relatively established in the arts of mysticism, it will only make sense to those who are already listening well enough to hear what is being transmitted.

Absolutely. I don't remember who said it (probably some mystic or many) but: "To those who have seen no words are necessary. To those who haven't, no words will suffice".

For me, the straw that broke the camel's spine was the moment I figured out that what is being transmitted matters much, much less than what is being heard.

Agree. :yes:

I'm not firmly established yet...only a journeyman of the arts. I still have a lot of traveling to do.

I think everybody does.

I:canoe:

Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream,
Merrily, merrily, merrily merrily, life is but a dream.

One of the most profoundly mystical songs of all time, IMO.

Communicated? Yes, someone could tell you about them, people have written books about them. But, have you noticed how communications can be taken so differently from one person to another? Often not really reflecting what the communicator intended?

Which is generally how we wind up with religion.

Or sound to someone born deaf. Or . . .

And don't forget that one person's mystical experience could be just another sunset to someone else.

No matter how hard I try, I can only imagine what another's experience was, just as they can only imagine mine.

I think any worthwhile teacher or teaching will encourage you to seek your own experience rather than try to understand or accept theirs.

 

[fenrisx]

Is it possible to communicate what a mystical experience is like to a non-mystic? Please discuss rather than debate.

From what context, can you or should you?

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream,
Merrily, merrily, merrily merrily, life is but a dream.

One of the most profoundly mystical songs of all time, IMO.

Couldn't agree more.

I think any worthwhile teacher or teaching will encourage you to seek your own experience rather than try to understand or accept theirs.

"Doubt everything. Find your own light." -Booduh

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream,
Merrily, merrily, merrily merrily, life is but a dream.[/I]

One of the most profoundly mystical songs of all time, IMO.

What does this song mean to make it mystical.

 

[Willamena]

What does this song mean to make it mystical.

Let's say it's you in the boat, and not only that, you're merged with the boat so that there's no distinction between the boat and you. The oar in your hand is part of your hand; the seat under your rear end is part of your rear end; the bow of the boat is your front, and the stern is your back.

So there you are, merrily moving along down the stream. If you are the boat in this story, then what is the stream?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Let's say it's you in the boat, and not only that, you're merged with the boat so that there's no distinction between the boat and you. The oar in your hand is part of your hand; the seat under your rear end is part of your rear end; the bow of the boat is your front, and the stern is your back.

So there you are, merrily moving along down the stream. If you are the boat in this story, then what is the stream?

Ah I see, thanks for explaining!

 

[Willamena]

Ah I see, thanks for explaining!

Oh dear.