Can Non-Abrahamics and Abrahamics be from same God?

[CG Didymus]

Hi CG. I think that each religion has had its spring, summer, autumn and winter where it has had periods of great contributions to humanity. Schools, hospitals, orphanages, charities, humanitarian organisations and also in arts and sciences each I believe has contributed its fair share.

But when a religion declines due to the passage of time and the introduction of man made concepts where the original teachings are watered down, then we see less adherence to these wonderful virtues so God sends another Messenger to renew religion once again.

With the examples of Christianity, whether Catholics or Protestants, Baha'is disagree with their beliefs. Church leaders came up with doctrines early on that Baha'is believe are false. They did some good and lots of bad. Islam came and became a rival. It didn't stop Christianity. As bad as Christianity got, they reformed themselves and tried to get back to what they believed was the "original" teachings. Which still contradict what Baha'is believe to be true.

So now Christianity keeps splintering, but most of them do good things, along with some bad. Protestant Christianity sure seems to have had a big effect on the morality of the Western World. But that's declining, or going into "winter". But Catholics and Protestants are still alive and kicking. They are not dead, gone and irrelevant. Which, I guess you believe they are... and have been since the beginning of Islam. But, that's not the case. Christianity keeps evolving and I'm sure still doing good things in different parts of the world... along with proselytizing and telling people their old religious beliefs are wrong and of the devil. But, nobody's perfect.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do Baha'is believe that some religions are man made and false? Of course you do. Even some, or maybe all, sects of the major religions, you believe have false and man made doctrines and beliefs. Yet, those "false" religious beliefs, like Jesus rising from the dead, or that people reincarnate, have inspired millions. Then, what about people that follow a certain God in a polytheistic religion? Their inspiration is coming from a God that Baha'is say doesn't exist.

I think that whatever we choose to believe in is everyone’s right but believe we will live or die spiritually by the choices we make.

So if for example some choose to reject Baha’u’llah in this life then I don’t believe they will be afforded another opportunity to return to this world to correct that choice once they have passed on.

Baha’u’llah says ‘seize thy chance for it will come to thee no more’.

So if we find out after we pass away that we were wrong and Baha’u’llah was true then I believe we will live for eternity in regret knowing we rejected the truth. And I believe the more closed minded we are in this world the more anger and regret we will feel towards ourselves in the next world.

That’s why it’s to one’s own advantage to be open minded.

I swear by the Day Star that shineth above the horizon of Divine power! They that are the followers of the one true God shall, the moment they depart out of this life, experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe, while they that live in error shall be seized with such fear and trembling, and shall be filled with such consternation, as nothing can exceed. Well is it with him that hath quaffed the choice and incorruptible wine of faith through the gracious favor and the manifold bounties of Him Who is the Lord of all Faiths

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Self-seeking in your quote refers to selfishness, not self-exploration, like in Hinduism, or any of the dharmic faiths. These are two very separate concepts.

That is because that quote is about selfishness. It is not about the journey of self discovery.

If we looked we would find compatiable practices, the offer was and is always on the table.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

So everybody should have been Hindus and believe in many gods and reincarnation. Then everybody should have joined Judaism and followed the Laws of Moses and believe in one God. Then, for a short time convert to Zoroastrianism and what they believe. Then become Buddhists. And reinstate the belief in reincarnation. Then the whole world should have accepted Jesus. So back to one God and no reincarnation. Then everybody should have joined up with Muhammad. But clergy, those no good #&*$%'s stopped us all from progressing.

I don't know what's wrong with different people just having different beliefs... other than fighting and arguing with each other over which one is right. But even with the Baha'i Faith, we're still arguing over which is right. And, if mine contradicts yours, you say mine is wrong.

There’s truth in all religions. All the Manifestations taught truths that all can accept. We can all agree and be united. If we follow what the Manifestations have taught we cannot go wrong but by putting our trust in religious leaders they have disunited us and created an ‘us and them world’.

It’s religious leaders who have turned us against each other not the Manifestations. We are in reality one human family which the devious have carved up and divided and exploited for personal gain.

Now is the time to take back our unity and live in peace and see each other as one.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yeah, that goes well for interfaith harmony, a something the Baha'i supposedly cherish. Pretty much sums up my feeling about Baha'i, I have nothing against Baha'i beliefs about Baha'i, other than those that involve criticism of other faiths. The Christians are wrong, the Muslims are wrong, the Hindus are wrong. Everyone is wrong except us. How does this build religious harmony?

Too bad it seems that most of Baha'i belief IS entirely about saying the other guys are wrong.

But look out if somebody dare speak ill of some of the Baha'i beliefs. Then it's unfair, unreasonable. And yet, amazingly this obvious double standard remains oblivious. You just can't see it, can you?

Thank you and all the others that are taking the time to challenge the Baha'i beliefs. These are my favorite threads. But, it is time to come clean. Baha'u'llah has been sent just to test you... to see if you truly believe and will not led astray into some strange beliefs. There is not literally only one God. That is only figuratively speaking. There are many, many, many. One life and then move on to different levels in a spiritual world? Yeah, sort of. What is meant is each time we come back to this world, it is like a new "spiritual' world for us. We are not the same person with the same body. We are new and different and sent to learn new things and to grow and mature spiritually. I'm so sorry that some people have taken the Baha'i teachings too literal. Sorry for the inconvenience.

How would the Baha'is like it if their next manifestation said stuff like that? But that is what it is like. No matter what religion. Baha'is flip it all around to make theirs the only right one.

 

[loverofhumanity]

With the examples of Christianity, whether Catholics or Protestants, Baha'is disagree with their beliefs. Church leaders came up with doctrines early on that Baha'is believe are false. They did some good and lots of bad. Islam came and became a rival. It didn't stop Christianity. As bad as Christianity got, they reformed themselves and tried to get back to what they believed was the "original" teachings. Which still contradict what Baha'is believe to be true.

So now Christianity keeps splintering, but most of them do good things, along with some bad. Protestant Christianity sure seems to have had a big effect on the morality of the Western World. But that's declining, or going into "winter". But Catholics and Protestants are still alive and kicking. They are not dead, gone and irrelevant. Which, I guess you believe they are... and have been since the beginning of Islam. But, that's not the case. Christianity keeps evolving and I'm sure still doing good things in different parts of the world... along with proselytizing and telling people their old religious beliefs are wrong and of the devil. But, nobody's perfect.

One of the greatest proofs of a Manifestation of God is His Life and teachings as well as His everlasting effect upon the hearts and minds of men and the ability to continue to transform souls even thousands of years after His passing. This is the power latent in the Word of God that each Manifestation brings.

Each Manifestation also brings a new teaching suited to the age it is revealed. So today we are told that all the Manifestations of God are true and to be accepted and in addition teachings on how to unite our fragmented world.

But we are also taught things like ‘a Baha’i shall be known by his deeds’ and even if one has never heard of Baha’u’llah they may be a Baha’i whereas a person may be a Baha’i for fifty years but not be one. So good deeds are commendable in God’s sight no matter who performs them. There is no superior person, religion, race, nationality or nation. We are all one human race. Those which serve humanity, those who perform good deeds are the best of people no matter what their religion or no religion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Thank you and all the others that are taking the time to challenge the Baha'i beliefs. These are my favorite threads. But, it is time to come clean. Baha'u'llah has been sent just to test you... to see if you truly believe and will not led astray into some strange beliefs. There is not literally only one God. That is only figuratively speaking. There are many, many, many. One life and then move on to different levels in a spiritual world? Yeah, sort of. What is meant is each time we come back to this world, it is like a new "spiritual' world for us. We are not the same person with the same body. We are new and different and sent to learn new things and to grow and mature spiritually. I'm so sorry that some people have taken the Baha'i teachings too literal. Sorry for the inconvenience.

How would the Baha'is like it if their next manifestation said stuff like that? But that is what it is like. No matter what religion. Baha'is flip it all around to make theirs the only right one.

CG. These are my favourite threads too! Always happy to converse with one and all. Haven’t you heard that we believe all the Manifestations are right?

 

[Vinayaka]

That is because that quote is about selfishness. It is not about the journey of self discovery.

If we looked we would find compatiable practices, the offer was and is always on the table.

I have looked, and I haven't found any. The indicator is in the practices. Of course there are a few individual exceptions. Dharmics, when they have the free time, will sit down and meditate, or beseech God through ritual. Abrahamics will read a book, or listen to someone else interpret that book.

I believe that at the heart of this debate is the false idea of progressive religions, each adding to the previous one, to get to Baha'i'. "You can do this, but we can do it better." It's just false, based on a false presumption. But once that false presumption is set in stone, it's difficult to see outside the box.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thank you and all the others that are taking the time to challenge the Baha'i beliefs. These are my favorite threads. But, it is time to come clean. Baha'u'llah has been sent just to test you... to see if you truly believe and will not led astray into some strange beliefs. There is not literally only one God. That is only figuratively speaking. There are many, many, many. One life and then move on to different levels in a spiritual world? Yeah, sort of. What is meant is each time we come back to this world, it is like a new "spiritual' world for us. We are not the same person with the same body. We are new and different and sent to learn new things and to grow and mature spiritually. I'm so sorry that some people have taken the Baha'i teachings too literal. Sorry for the inconvenience.

How would the Baha'is like it if their next manifestation said stuff like that? But that is what it is like. No matter what religion. Baha'is flip it all around to make theirs the only right one.

And then make the claim of religious harmony, and working together. Shucks, eh?

 

[Shantanu]

I have looked, and I haven't found any. The indicator is in the practices. Of course there are a few individual exceptions. Dharmics, when they have the free time, will sit down and meditate, or beseech God through ritual. Abrahamics will read a book, or listen to someone else interpret that book.

I believe that at the heart of this debate is the false idea of progressive religions, each adding to the previous one, to get to Baha'i'. "You can do this, but we can do it better." It's just false, based on a false presumption. But once that false presumption is set in stone, it's difficult to see outside the box.

The right religion will be the one that delivers one from delusions created by the self.

 

[Vinayaka]

The right religion will be the one that delivers one from delusions created by the self.

Most of the dharmic faiths guide us to that. None of them do it for us.

 

[Vinayaka]

The diseases are problems in every age. The person who is sick, is the body of humanity. The remedies are teachings and commandments. What Jesus said about divorce is an example.

What did Jesus say about homosexuals, atheists, women in charge and idol worshipers? Are they diseased?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

What did Jesus say about homosexuals, atheists, women in charge and idol worshipers? Are they diseased?

Each one of those things, is a thread to discuss. But God, the All knowing, is the one who knows the diseases even if the sick does not agree. It all goes back to recognition of the word of God.

 

[Vinayaka]

Each one of those things, is a thread to discuss. But God, the All knowing, is the one who knows the diseases even if the sick does not agree. It all goes back to recognition of the word of God.

Yes, I've been told many times how blind I am, how diseased I am, how wrong I am. Not by my God, not even by your God, just by the followers of your God. It seems like it's part of their faith.

Thank goodness I have the ability to see beyond that.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Yes, I've been told many times how blind I am, how diseased I am, how wrong I am. Not by my God, not even by your God, just by the followers of your God. It seems like it's part of their faith.

Thank goodness I have the ability to see beyond that.

I believe No body will tell anybody they are sick. God wrote the Book, describing the diseases and their remedies. It is a self service. Everyone is welcomed to take anything they want from the Book of guidance.

 

[CG Didymus]

Cool. Then let us discuss the things that differentiate the religious thoughts of Bahai with the Hindu. It is by learning about the unique and differentiating features of religions (and cultures and customs as well) that one gains new and interesting insight. What is the point of going to an Indian restaurant if it also serves only McDonald type fries and burgers?

A Baha'i goes to an Indian Restaurant and asks for McDonald's burger and fries. When told those items are part of the menu, the Baha'i tells them that "originally" they were. But over time your cooks and owners changed the menu and lost all those original dishes.

 

[CG Didymus]

The diseases are problems in every age. The person who is sick, is the body of humanity. The remedies are teachings and commandments. What Jesus said about divorce is an example.

Have those problems gone away? No, so the remedy didn't work?

 

[CG Didymus]

I think that whatever we choose to believe in is everyone’s right but believe we will live or die spiritually by the choices we make.

So if for example some choose to reject Baha’u’llah in this life then I don’t believe they will be afforded another opportunity to return to this world to correct that choice once they have passed on.

Baha’u’llah says ‘seize thy chance for it will come to thee no more’.

So if we find out after we pass away that we were wrong and Baha’u’llah was true then I believe we will live for eternity in regret knowing we rejected the truth. And I believe the more closed minded we are in this world the more anger and regret we will feel towards ourselves in the next world.

That’s why it’s to one’s own advantage to be open minded.

I swear by the Day Star that shineth above the horizon of Divine power! They that are the followers of the one true God shall, the moment they depart out of this life, experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe, while they that live in error shall be seized with such fear and trembling, and shall be filled with such consternation, as nothing can exceed. Well is it with him that hath quaffed the choice and incorruptible wine of faith through the gracious favor and the manifold bounties of Him Who is the Lord of all Faiths

How is that different than a Christian that says that if I don't accept Jesus, I will regret it for eternity? So one life, one chance and that soul/spirit of that person gets punished for a decision made by the brain of a body that had all kinds of contradictory spiritual information to choose from and chose wrong?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Have those problems gone away? No, so the remedy didn't work?

It depends how successful are the mankind to use the remedies. If they use them, the problems will go away. If they do not, God does not force them. They are created with free will.

 

[ManSinha]

How well are those religions getting their people to live by those teachings? How well do the religious leaders live by those things? The "Abrahamics" don't have a very good track record.

Have those problems gone away? No, so the remedy didn't work?

And therein lies the issue:

I shall take one example from the tradition I know -
The Sikh way of wearing a weapon on them at all times

Now if you look back at 1699 - the originals that were bestowed - initially responded to call to give their heads

Those that are in this very small group have to live up to some very lofty principles - including daily practice to stay efficient in the use of said weapons - now how many really practice it - quite another story

In my opinion - if someone follows the path laid out - there is a good chance of leading a long and healthy life - aside from natural calamities and a spiritually satisfying one as well - but as the 9th Master puts it