Can Non-Abrahamics and Abrahamics be from same God?

[Vinayaka]

If someone who is a Bahai or non-bahai, commits a sin, or does not follow the teachings of Bahaullah, we, as individuals do not go to them, and say to them why you sin, and why you do not follow Bahaullah. This is what Bahai writings teach.
As regards to having different belief, such as your Hinduism, I as an individual do not tell you are wrong.
But, I can discuss and share my view. I can participate in a fruitful discussion with you, to compare the teachings or interpretations of Bahaullah, with your view of God or Religion. The discussion is not about, I am right and you are wrong. It is about showing why I think Abdulbaha or Bahaullah is right, and other views which contradicts His view are wrong. Do you see the difference? So, if someone participates in discussion, trying to show why he thinks Bahaullah is wrong, I also discuss why I think Bahaullah is right. How is this hypocrisy?

Then why, in these discussions, is it almost entirely about Baha'i and very little to do with the tenets of Hinduism? I offered some time back for you to ask questions about Hinduism, but apparently you're not interested. Action does indeed speak louder than words. But then, in your defense, it is really hard to learn anything substantial about my faith, unless you actually practice it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Have you read any non-Baha'i sources, in order to better understand it? Some of the ex-Baha'i folks, having seen it from the inside, in more than one community, or in more than on the internet, have a whole lot to say. Of course I know you view them as enemies, but still.

Most of us have been in the Faith for quite a few years and we have seen and know why people leave and why people accept and stay, we do not have to read about it.

It is in nearly 100% of cases that they have decided they do not want to submit to all that the Baha'i Writings have offered. If you want to push a personal agenda in the Baha'i Faith, it will not work. Consultation in all things is a part of this faith, we are no longer able to push a single agenda if the majority do not accept that it is wise. If they do think it wise then a personal agenda can have fruit.

This does not mean we can not have goals and aspirations in life. It is also good to let others share in them. We have been shown oneness can not happen without unity.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

If we did such a thing we would be thrown out of our religion.

Every Baha'i knows that others are free to leave if another decides being a Baha'i is no longer right for her. We don't divorce our spouses and disown our children on the grounds of religious belief.

In Hinduism there can often be a great deal of antagonism and prejudice if a Hindu decides to convert to an Abrahamic faith such as Christianity.

 

[Vinayaka]

In Hinduism there can often be a great deal of antagonism and prejudice if a Hindu decides to convert to an Abrahamic faith such as Christianity.

Often there is more to the story. In India it's difficult to make a living. So some men work in Arabia or outside India. While they are gone, the predator faiths find out about it, and use friendship evangelism to convert the Mom and wife who has stayed home to take care of her family, and/or the Dad's parents. So then he comes home to find that she no longer goes to temple, no longer worships the Hindu Gods and has Jesus all over the place, thanks to the 'gifts' from the friends. So yes he's upset. It would be like coming home to an adulterous spouse. Still not enough to resort to violence or disowning, but if you look closer at the actual cause, it might show an entirely different story. But real friends wouldn't do that, they'd just befriend her and leave religion out of it entirely.

Of course there are many many variations on why someone converts. Some are indeed from an in depth searching of many factors.

 

[Vinayaka]

Most of us have been in the Faith for quite a few years and we have seen and know why people leave and why people accept and stay, we do not have to read about it.

Like all faiths, though, your experience is limited some by geography and circumstance.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Have you read any non-Baha'i sources, in order to better understand it? Some of the ex-Baha'i folks, having seen it from the inside, in more than one community, or in more than on the internet, have a whole lot to say. Of course I know you view them as enemies, but still.

Personally, I see nothing wrong at all with the baha'i faith. Believe what you will, but it's the interaction with other faiths, where the hypocrisy show. For example, telling everyone you don't proselytize is a form of proselytizing.

Former Baha’is are not seen as enemies. Baha’is are free to join or leave as they please. It’s voluntary membership.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The ancient Hindu rishis, hundreds of them, did not see it this way, but I suppose you could be smarter than all of them.

Or I see it in a different frame of reference. That is an important subject to understand the science behind it.

No one can be said to be wrong in their current frame of reference. Its not about being smart, it is about giving self over to different frames of reference and then sorting out the pearls from the clay.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Like all faiths, though, your experience is limited some by geography and circumstance.

Yes Nature and Nurture play a big part. I see the Baha'i teachings are aimed and bringing this together as a Unity in our Diversity.

Have we discussed this before

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Often there is more to the story. In India it's difficult to make a living. So some men work in Arabia or outside India. While they are gone, the predator faiths find out about it, and use friendship evangelism to convert the Mom and wife who has stayed home to take care of her family, and/or the Dad's parents. So then he comes home to find that she no longer goes to temple, no longer worships the Hindu Gods and has Jesus all over the place, thanks to the 'gifts' from the friends. So yes he's upset. It would be like coming home to an adulterous spouse. Still not enough to resort to violence or disowning, but if you look closer at the actual cause, it might show an entirely different story. But real friends wouldn't do that, they'd just befriend her and leave religion out of it entirely.

Of course there are many many variations on why someone converts. Some are indeed from an in depth searching of many factors.

There is always three sides to every story...his side, her side and what really happened.

It has become clear in recent times Christians feel increasingly persecuted in India.

Personally I believe in the absolute freedom to change religion. Often such decisions are not taken lightly. I know Christians will happily embrace a Hindu who decides to become a Hindu. How about Christians who want to become Hindus?

I don't have a problem if someone tries to convince me to join another religion and leave my own. As you know a JW has started a thread with exactly that in mind.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Often there is more to the story. In India it's difficult to make a living. So some men work in Arabia or outside India. While they are gone, the predator faiths find out about it, and use friendship evangelism to convert the Mom and wife who has stayed home to take care of her family, and/or the Dad's parents. So then he comes home to find that she no longer goes to temple, no longer worships the Hindu Gods and has Jesus all over the place, thanks to the 'gifts' from the friends. So yes he's upset. It would be like coming home to an adulterous spouse. Still not enough to resort to violence or disowning, but if you look closer at the actual cause, it might show an entirely different story. But real friends wouldn't do that, they'd just befriend her and leave religion out of it entirely.

Of course there are many many variations on why someone converts. Some are indeed from an in depth searching of many factors.

That is my story how I found the Baha'i Faith.

I came home and my wife had become a Baha'i, very angry was I

In my case I decided to investigate as to why she had made the decision. Thus I guess when one submits, guidance can be found.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Often there is more to the story. In India it's difficult to make a living. So some men work in Arabia or outside India. While they are gone, the predator faiths find out about it, and use friendship evangelism to convert the Mom and wife who has stayed home to take care of her family, and/or the Dad's parents. So then he comes home to find that she no longer goes to temple, no longer worships the Hindu Gods and has Jesus all over the place, thanks to the 'gifts' from the friends. So yes he's upset. It would be like coming home to an adulterous spouse. Still not enough to resort to violence or disowning, but if you look closer at the actual cause, it might show an entirely different story. But real friends wouldn't do that, they'd just befriend her and leave religion out of it entirely.

Of course there are many many variations on why someone converts. Some are indeed from an in depth searching of many factors.

I see where you’re coming from. Family unity is very important and these situations can be very difficult. If it was bribery then I think the wife would see her mistake but if she really wanted to join that religion of her own choice without manipulation then she should be accorded freedom of belief as it is a basic human right

People do change religion it’s just a fact of life. What can we do if it’s their sincere choice? .

 

[loverofhumanity]

I belueve both Abrahamics and non Abrahamic religions are all part of one human family and can have a common understand.

 

[Vinayaka]

Former Baha’is are not seen as enemies. Baha’is are free to join or leave as they please. It’s voluntary membership.

Covenant breakers too?

 

[Vinayaka]

Or I see it in a different frame of reference. That is an important subject to understand the science behind it.

No one can be said to be wrong in their current frame of reference. Its not about being smart, it is about giving self over to different frames of reference and then sorting out the pearls from the clay.

I agree. We're different. I don't see any science behind it, just tolerance. Hindus go within. Abrahamics look at scripture to find pearls.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is always three sides to every story...his side, her side and what really happened.
It has become clear in recent times Christians feel increasingly persecuted in India.

Indeed Christians feel persecuted. From my POV it's just because Hindus have finally seen the damage done, and decided to stand up to it. Tons of foreign money is poured into India on a daily basis just for conversion. It's sad. Hindus don't jate Christians, they just don't like to see the destruction of their way of life.

 

[Vinayaka]

I belueve both Abrahamics and non Abrahamic religions are all part of one human family and can have a common understand.

We're all humans, yes. But there is so little in common that it's difficult. Just getting along without discussing religion is a challenge.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Covenant breakers too?

We don’t hate Covenant breakers and can pray for them but are told not to associate with them as they usually are trying to create another sect within the Baha’i Faith and destroy the unity within. In other words turn Baha’i against Baha’i. That is unacceptable. If they don’t like it they don’t have to be Baha’is but to stay and to try and turn us against each other is not permitted.

 

[loverofhumanity]

We're all humans, yes. But there is so little in common that it's difficult. Just getting along without discussing religion is a challenge.

I think with things like world travel and as we get to know each other better and maybe with a world Auxilliary language the day will come when we can be more like a family but that will take time and effort.

 

[Vinayaka]

We don’t hate Covenant breakers and can pray for them but are told not to associate with them as they usually are trying to create another sect within the Baha’i Faith and destroy the unity within. In other words turn Baha’i against Baha’i. That is unacceptable. If they don’t like it they don’t have to be Baha’is but to stay and to try and turn us against each other is not permitted.

Not permitted? How exactly do you plan to stop them? Tell then they can'd do that?

I think with things like world travel and as we get to know each other better and maybe with a world Auxilliary language the day will come when we can be more like a family but that will take time and effort.

The language isn't about to happen. Globalisation has had some great side effects for diversity though. My city has areal mosaic of religion for example. Not something you'd see 5o years back. So tolerance is practically forced on the bigots, whether they're happy about it or not. Interestingly, I taught in a suburb 20 miles out, and one parent told me he moved away from the city because of 'too many foreigners'. I let him know my opinion. The following year he put his kids in a private christian school. His choice, but not good for tolerance.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Indeed Christians feel persecuted. From my POV it's just because Hindus have finally seen the damage done, and decided to stand up to it. Tons of foreign money is poured into India on a daily basis just for conversion. It's sad. Hindus don't jate Christians, they just don't like to see the destruction of their way of life.

I haven't lived in India so its difficult without that experience. Certainly colonialism and undue pressure to become Christian was a reality in many places. Two hundred years of British colonial rule resulted in a relatively small minority of conversions to Christianity. That rule ended over 70 years ago so Christians are hardly in a position of any power to make many changes in India.

India had been an underdeveloped country for a very long time but that is clearly changing. Appropriately targeted foreign aid could have been helpful I would imagine. I appreciate with colonial rule came a great deal of economic exploitation which is an ongoing source of contention and discussion. I wonder to what extent traditions are being affected simply by modernity and development?

Clearly there is an anti-Christian narrative in India/Hinduism, and like many narratives there's some truth for sure. I do suspect a degree of scapegoating too where Christians become easy targets.