Can Non-Abrahamics and Abrahamics be from same God?

[sayak83]

There does seem to be statements in writings attributed to the Buddha that could at least be perceived as theistic.

For example:

There is the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, and therefore there is an escape from the born, created, formed, originated. If it were not for the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, there would be no escape from the born, created, formed, originated, but because there is the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, there is an escape, there is liberation from the born, created, formed, originated (Udana VIII.3).

Buddha Space: 'The Unborn,' by Ajahn Sumedho

That is the description of the Nibbana state itself. Not God. This is abundantly clear by reading even 20% of the the Suttas.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I dont want to start an agrument about reincarnamtion, But can it be that He did not know about reincarnation, or did not understand the concept so he did not teach it? I know that most western religions do not teach reincarnation while most asian religions actually do teach it.
Does a thing not exist because you can not see it or explain it?

Please know that I love discoursing with you and you are always most welcome to ask and challenge anything or scrutinise anything I say. I was feeling bad that maybe I was too frank and offended you so I didn’t post anymore in your thread out of courtesy. I apologise if I did offend. I love Buddhist people and I believe in Buddha too. I only meant to share views. But sometimes it can be very sensitive like reincarnation or the return of Buddha. But it can be rewarding if we discuss. Firstly I will never ever try and take you away from Buddha and His teachings as I believe in Buddha too. But there’s some things I’ve discovered that I thought to share that’s all....

We believe that Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God which means He was All Knowing and had knowledge that no humans possess which was direct from God and infallible knowledge.

We also believe Baha’u’llah is the return of Buddha Maitreya and the Promised One awaited of all religions.

Verily I say, this is the Day in which mankind can behold the Face, and hear the Voice, of the Promised One. Great indeed is this Day! The allusions made to it in all the sacred Scriptures as the Day of God attest its greatness. The soul of every Prophet of God, of every Divine Messenger, hath thirsted for this wondrous Day. All the divers kindreds of the earth have, likewise, yearned to attain it. (Baha’u’llah)

Now IF Baha’u’llah is really the Buddha Maitreya and the Promised One awaited by all then He possesses perfect knowledge and knows all about reincarnation and He has told us that after this earthly life we progress through the worlds of God never to return here.

O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.
(Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329)

 

[loverofhumanity]

Since both Gita and Buddha teaches reincarnation/rebirth explicitly they are therefore non-revealed and hence wrong...correct?

I believe they are misinterpretations and am firmly convinced that neither the Buddha nor the Gita teaches reincarnation. I believe this to be a human teaching from misinterpretation of scriptures.

For instance comings and goings can be stages of spiritual development where we progress and then fall back. At one time we are a saint next we are an animal.

From the human embryo to childhood to adolescence to adulthood we undergo many physical and spiritual transformations but we are still the same person. I can say I was a different person when I was younger but I’m still referring to myself in the same body.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Please know that I love discoursing with you and you are always most welcome to ask and challenge anything or scrutinise anything I say. I was feeling bad that maybe I was too frank and offended you so I didn’t post anymore in your thread out of courtesy. I apologise if I did offend. I love Buddhist people and I believe in Buddha too. I only meant to share views. But sometimes it can be very sensitive like reincarnation or the return of Buddha. But it can be rewarding if we discuss. Firstly I will never ever try and take you away from Buddha and His teachings as I believe in Buddha too. But there’s some things I’ve discovered that I thought to share that’s all....

We believe that Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God which means He was All Knowing and had knowledge that no humans possess which was direct from God and infallible knowledge.

We also believe Baha’u’llah is the return of Buddha Maitreya and the Promised One awaited of all religions.

Verily I say, this is the Day in which mankind can behold the Face, and hear the Voice, of the Promised One. Great indeed is this Day! The allusions made to it in all the sacred Scriptures as the Day of God attest its greatness. The soul of every Prophet of God, of every Divine Messenger, hath thirsted for this wondrous Day. All the divers kindreds of the earth have, likewise, yearned to attain it. (Baha’u’llah)

Now IF Baha’u’llah is really the Buddha Maitreya and the Promised One awaited by all then He possesses perfect knowledge and knows all about reincarnation and He has told us that after this earthly life we progress through the worlds of God never to return here.

O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.
(Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329)

Do not worry, you can not offend me i did not take it as a attack of buddhism, and you are free to think and believe anything you feel suit you I too like discussing religious topics, and i do understand that not everyone can see the teaching the way i do

Personally i do not see maitreya in the world yet. But ofcourse i could be wrong on this. But i do also think that Maitreya would use that name on earth when this Buddha do arise,

 

[sayak83]

I believe they are misinterpretations and am firmly convinced that neither the Buddha nor the Gita teaches reincarnation. I believe this to be a human teaching from misinterpretation of scriptures.

For instance comings and goings can be stages of spiritual development where we progress and then fall back. At one time we are a saint next we are an animal.

From the human embryo to childhood to adolescence to adulthood we undergo many physical and spiritual transformations but we are still the same person. I can say I was a different person when I was younger but I’m still referring to myself in the same body.

Your convictions have no basis in fact but are purely a product of your biases caused by your following of the Bahai path. There simply is no way to consistently read or make sense of either the Gita or the Buddhist Suttas by eliminating the rebirth/reincarnation concept. Anyone who has read either to even a moderate extent will know this.
I am quite happy to debate you on this if your are so willing, if only for increasing your appreciation of how fundamental the rebirth concept is to either of the texts. After that you are free to decide what to do about it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I believe they are misinterpretations and am firmly convinced that neither the Buddha nor the Gita teaches reincarnation. I believe this to be a human teaching from misinterpretation of scriptures.

For instance comings and goings can be stages of spiritual development where we progress and then fall back. At one time we are a saint next we are an animal.

From the human embryo to childhood to adolescence to adulthood we undergo many physical and spiritual transformations but we are still the same person. I can say I was a different person when I was younger but I’m still referring to myself in the same body.

In buddhism there is two aspect that is in the teaching Rebirth and reincarnation.
Rebirth is something that happens all the time and during our lifetimes as human beings our body has actually been changed many times, the cells in our body arise to the surface of the body, then after some time it dies and new cells are reborn. but you can also say that every time you experience a similar experience it is a rebirth from past when you did not fully understood the situation, so you must go thru it again and again until you get it.

Reincarnation is a bit different because it is our main consiousness that passes from one life time to an other. so when cultivating for longer time, you would actually be able to remember your previous lifes.
But reincarnation is bound together with karma and this is a key aspect. how you have been in action, speech and thoughts will affect how much karma you accumulate and will make you go thru suffering in both this life or next. if you have been a ill willed person you can "expect" to be treated that way and you must reincarnate in a similar situation to what you created for others in your past life. and if you been an evil person you can be born as animal or even lower down. and in wosed case in what is seen as Hell, But not like a Christian hell where you can not get out. Buddhists see hell as constant suffering and agony for a period of time (long time)
But you can actually experience hell on earth too

 

[Dawnofhope]

In my understanding Buddha talking about being born in to this physical world as example human beings, and that it is possible to escape this birth

That is the description of the Nibbana state itself. Not God. This is abundantly clear by reading even 20% of the the Suttas.

My experience of Buddhism is through living in Japan as my family has strong Japanese ancestry. Its apparent Japanese are strongly theistic in their religious practice and beliefs. Nirvana in Japanese Buddhism is about approaching a transcendant state of absolute reality in itself may be inherently theistic.

This abstract by Heinrich Dumoulin may be of interest. He as admittedly a Jesuit theologian, but a widely published author on Zen, and a professor of philosophy and history at Sophia University in Tokyo (where he was Professor Emeritus). He was the founder of its Institute for Oriental Religions, as well as the first Director of the Nanzan Institute for Religion and Culture.

Theistic Tendencies in Japanese Buddhism in: Ex orbe religionum

Heinrich Dumoulin - Wikipedia

 

[loverofhumanity]

Since both Gita and Buddha teaches reincarnation/rebirth explicitly they are therefore non-revealed and hence wrong...correct?

Gita

As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death."(Gita 2.13)

Baha’i Writings

in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.(Baha’i Writings)

So the difference is very subtle but very substantial in that yes we do take on another body according to the Gita but what kind of body? A body composed of materials of a heavenly not earthly realm according to the Baha’i Writings. I believe both verses are in complete harmony and complementary.

Can you see just how easily this could have been misinterpreted?

 

[Spirit of Light]

My experience of Buddhism is through living in Japan as my family has strong Japanese ancestry. Its apparent Japanese are strongly theistic in their religious practice and beliefs. Nirvana in Japanese Buddhism is about approaching a transcendant state of absolute reality in itself may be inherently theistic.

This abstract by Heinrich Dumoulin may be of interest. He as admittedly a Jesuit theologian, but a widely published author on Zen, and a professor of philosophy and history at Sophia University in Tokyo (where he was Professor Emeritus). He was the founder of its Institute for Oriental Religions, as well as the first Director of the Nanzan Institute for Religion and Culture.

Theistic Tendencies in Japanese Buddhism in: Ex orbe religionum

Heinrich Dumoulin - Wikipedia

If i remember right zen buddhism who is most know from Japan was founded by bodidharma ? I can not say so much about that teaching because i have not studied it

 

[loverofhumanity]

In buddhism there is two aspect that is in the teaching Rebirth and reincarnation.
Rebirth is something that happens all the time and during our lifetimes as human beings our body has actually been changed many times, the cells in our body arise to the surface of the body, then after some time it dies and new cells are reborn. but you can also say that every time you experience a similar experience it is a rebirth from past when you did not fully understood the situation, so you must go thru it again and again until you get it.

Reincarnation is a bit different because it is our main consiousness that passes from one life time to an other. so when cultivating for longer time, you would actually be able to remember your previous lifes.
But reincarnation is bound together with karma and this is a key aspect. how you have been in action, speech and thoughts will affect how much karma you accumulate and will make you go thru suffering in both this life or next. if you have been a ill willed person you can "expect" to be treated that way and you must reincarnate in a similar situation to what you created for others in your past life. and if you been an evil person you can be born as animal or even lower down. and in wosed case in what is seen as Hell, But not like a Christian hell where you can not get out. Buddhists see hell as constant suffering and agony for a period of time (long time)
But you can actually experience hell on earth too

We understand there are many worlds of God apart from this one and that progress of the soul is possible in all of them and so it is not necessary to and we won’t once again return in human form to this world. We will continually progress but still be the same person. And have the same identity we had in this life. That is how we understand it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do not worry, you can not offend me i did not take it as a attack of buddhism, and you are free to think and believe anything you feel suit you I too like discussing religious topics, and i do understand that not everyone can see the teaching the way i do

Personally i do not see maitreya in the world yet. But ofcourse i could be wrong on this. But i do also think that Maitreya would use that name on earth when this Buddha do arise,

Thanks very much. I don’t see an us and them between you and I just that we have different understandings but my belief in Buddha is unshakeable only I understand differently. But I see you as a brother not an adversary.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Your convictions have no basis in fact but are purely a product of your biases caused by your following of the Bahai path. There simply is no way to consistently read or make sense of either the Gita or the Buddhist Suttas by eliminating the rebirth/reincarnation concept. Anyone who has read either to even a moderate extent will know this.
I am quite happy to debate you on this if your are so willing, if only for increasing your appreciation of how fundamental the rebirth concept is to either of the texts. After that you are free to decide what to do about it.

The only thing we differ on is mainly that we believe after we die we take on another form only not in this world but in other worlds of God.

 

[sayak83]

Gita

As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death."(Gita 2.13)

Baha’i Writings

in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.(Baha’i Writings)

So the difference is very subtle but very substantial in that yes we do take on another body according to the Gita but what kind of body? A body composed of materials of a heavenly not earthly realm according to the Baha’i Writings. I believe both verses are in complete harmony and complementary.

Can you see just how easily this could have been misinterpreted?

Do you believe God created humans? If so, then Gita contradicts this belief saying all beings have been eternally existant as uncreated.
Chapter 2:12
Truly there was never a time when I was not,
Nor you, nor these lords of men;
And neither will there be a time when
we shall cease to be From this time onward.

How can this be, when we are born and die? By rebirth. Infinite rounds of it.
Chapter 2:13
Just as in the body childhood, adulthood, and old age happen to an embodied being,
So also he (the embodied being) acquires another body.
The wise one is not deluded about this.
2:18
As, after casting away worn out garments,
A man later takes new ones,
So, after casting away worn out bodies,
The embodied Self encounters other, new ones.

Krishna clarifies that this continuous rebirth happens because the embodied Self (you, me, self of all beings) is eternal and indestructible while the bodies arise and fall.
2:15
These bodies inhabited by the eternal,
The indestructible, the immeasurable embodied Self,
Are said to come to an end. Therefore fight, Arjuna!
He who imagines this (the embodied Self) the slayer
And he who imagines this (the embodied Self) the slain,
Neither of them understands
This (the embodied Self) does not slay, nor is it slain.

2:16
Neither is this (the embodied Self) born nor does it die at any time,
Nor, having been, will it again come not to be.
Birthless, eternal, perpetual, primaeval,
It is not slain when the body is slain.

2:17
He who knows this, the indestructible, the eternal,
The birthless, the imperishable,
In what way does this man cause to be slain, Arjuna?
Whom does he slay?

What we see here are two propositions that are clearly explained,
1) We, or any beings are not created but eternally existing utterly indestructbe entities.
2) We simply manifest in this world through mortal bodies that come and go.


However, rebirth is painful. Thus, it is possible to escape from rebirth. The rest of the Gita tells you how to not be reborn.

2:51
Those who are established in wisdom,
The wise ones, who have abandoned the fruit born of action,
And are freed from the bondage of rebirth (janmabandhavinirmuktah),
Go to the place that is free from pain.

None of the rest makes any sense if there is no rebirth in mortal realms happening in the first place.

I can go on. But that sufficies for now....

 

[sayak83]

The only thing we differ on is mainly that we believe after we die we take on another form only not in this world but in other worlds of God.

I am not much concerned with the differences...this is regarding whether Gita makes any kind of sense if ones removes the rebirth concept out of it or not.
As a Hindu, differences are something I expect to be natural, normal and right way to be.

 

[sayak83]

My experience of Buddhism is through living in Japan as my family has strong Japanese ancestry. Its apparent Japanese are strongly theistic in their religious practice and beliefs. Nirvana in Japanese Buddhism is about approaching a transcendant state of absolute reality in itself may be inherently theistic.

This abstract by Heinrich Dumoulin may be of interest. He as admittedly a Jesuit theologian, but a widely published author on Zen, and a professor of philosophy and history at Sophia University in Tokyo (where he was Professor Emeritus). He was the founder of its Institute for Oriental Religions, as well as the first Director of the Nanzan Institute for Religion and Culture.

Theistic Tendencies in Japanese Buddhism in: Ex orbe religionum

Heinrich Dumoulin - Wikipedia

Japanese buddhism has had a lot of extra layers over the Buddhist Suttas that are the earliest extant Buddhist texts and the only ones that can be ascribed to Buddha or the followers of his times.

 

[LuisDantas]

Although the Hindu, Budhism and other Non-Abrahamic Religions seem to be different than the Abrahamics ones, Can they be from the same God, but were revealed or manifested in different ways, based on cultural differences

I don't think so.

The problems that come with the proposition that god-revealed religion is in some sense unified or can be made so are simply too formidable.

To attempt to face those while at the same time claim common meaning with the Dharmic ones just does not work, from what I have seen, and can not possibly ever work.

You end up in a very difficult situation, not too distant from that of claiming that "all" religions are ultimately either Abrahamic or strangely dedicated to hinding out their Abrahamic bent, while God itself apparently wants to both be widely preached and kept hidden while working hard at developing a reputation for insanity and non-existence.

Come to think of it, that may well have been Lovecraft's direct inspiration for Azathoth.

The trick there, in my opinion, is in realizing that there is a very significant difference between religion and theism. While revealed religion is clearly demographically succesfull and politically influential, it can't very easily be made convincing from a logical perspective, nor realistic. That may be a significant part of its appeal, even. Ironically enough, difficult propositions tend to be those that best attract people's attention and dedication.

Could God have spoke dharma, the way He did to Hindus, but in other cultures, He manifested Prophets as seen in Abrahamics.

Would this verse of Quran, explain it?

"To every People have We appointed [different] rites and ceremonies which they must follow: let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord: for thou art assuredly on the Right Way. 2:67

Comment in bracket is by myself.

It is certainly what the Qur'an attempts to claim and what the Bahais insist on attempting to maintain.

The sincere attempts at balancing faith and respect towards diversity of belief are self-evident. As displays of good will they are very remarkable. All the same, they still end up looking wasteful and misdirected to me.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you believe God created humans? If so, then Gita contradicts this belief saying all beings have been eternally existant as uncreated.
Chapter 2:12
Truly there was never a time when I was not,
Nor you, nor these lords of men;
And neither will there be a time when
we shall cease to be From this time onward.

How can this be, when we are born and die? By rebirth. Infinite rounds of it.
Chapter 2:13
Just as in the body childhood, adulthood, and old age happen to an embodied being,
So also he (the embodied being) acquires another body.
The wise one is not deluded about this.
2:18
As, after casting away worn out garments,
A man later takes new ones,
So, after casting away worn out bodies,
The embodied Self encounters other, new ones.

Krishna clarifies that this continuous rebirth happens because the embodied Self (you, me, self of all beings) is eternal and indestructible while the bodies arise and fall.
2:15
These bodies inhabited by the eternal,
The indestructible, the immeasurable embodied Self,
Are said to come to an end. Therefore fight, Arjuna!
He who imagines this (the embodied Self) the slayer
And he who imagines this (the embodied Self) the slain,
Neither of them understands
This (the embodied Self) does not slay, nor is it slain.

2:16
Neither is this (the embodied Self) born nor does it die at any time,
Nor, having been, will it again come not to be.
Birthless, eternal, perpetual, primaeval,
It is not slain when the body is slain.

2:17
He who knows this, the indestructible, the eternal,
The birthless, the imperishable,
In what way does this man cause to be slain, Arjuna?
Whom does he slay?

What we see here are two propositions that are clearly explained,
1) We, or any beings are not created but eternally existing utterly indestructbe entities.
2) We simply manifest in this world through mortal bodies that come and go.


However, rebirth is painful. Thus, it is possible to escape from rebirth. The rest of the Gita tells you how to not be reborn.

2:51
Those who are established in wisdom,
The wise ones, who have abandoned the fruit born of action,
And are freed from the bondage of rebirth (janmabandhavinirmuktah),
Go to the place that is free from pain.

None of the rest makes any sense if there is no rebirth in mortal realms happening in the first place.

I can go on. But that sufficies for now....

1. Agreed. There was never a time that humanity did not exist. I understand that’s what it means not you and I individually but humanity or man. There was never a time that man did not exist. I think you are reading this passage too literally. It is simply stressing to me that humanity always existed and always will and we are told the same by Baha’u’llah that even if we didn’t exist on earth we did exist somewhere else.

2. Very simple. We take on other garments or bodies but spiritual ones in spiritual worlds not this one again.so after death I understand we take in another form not another earthly body. That passage says bodies. The Baha’i teachings says that we take on a heavenly body. Which is not contradicting the Gita at all. Bodies can mean spiritual bodies or material bodies composed of elements of another world.

3. Krishna is speaking of eternal life that we are not annhilated and obliterated after deth but live on eternally.

4. Again the spirit or soul does not cease to exist when the body dies but lives on forever

5. Those who are detached from desire and self live in the spiritual realm in other words they are reborn spiritually and are free from attachment to this world and the suffering it causes.

I truly sincerely see no case whatsoever for reincarnation from the Gita except it is a misinterpretation for it quite easily can be explained differently without contradiction to mean the points I stated and not reincarnation.

I think in the Gita’s case that reincarnation is in the eyes of the beholder. I clearly see that there is no indication whatsoever of reincarnation from these verses as they can easily be interpreted to mean very logical and rationally acceptable truths other than reincarnation which the Bahai teachings fully support.

 

[ChristineM]

Most wars are not caused by religion.

Is Religion the Cause of Most Wars? | HuffPost

Regards Tony

Here is a list of wars and genocides that were.

Al Qaeda, 1993-
Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
Algeria, 1992-
Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE
Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
Armenian Genocide: 1,500,000
Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
Aztec Human Sacrifice: 80,000
Baha'is, 1848-54
Bosnia, 1992-95
Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
Croatia, 1991-92
Crusades, 1095-1291 - 6,000,000
Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609
Eighty Years' War: 1,000,000
English Civil War, 1642-46
First Sudanese Civil War: 1,000,000
French Wars of Religion: 4,000,000
Great Peasants' Revolt: 250,000
Holocaust, 1938-45
Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
India, 1992-2002
India: Suttee & Thugs
Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
Iraq War: 500,000
Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
Islamic Terrorism Since 2000: 150,000
Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
Jews, 1348
Jonestown, 1978
Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92 250,000
Molucca Is., 1999-
Mongolia, 1937-39
Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s- 1,000,000
Northern Ireland, 1974-98
Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22
Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
Second Sudanese Civil War: 2,000,000
Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE
Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38
Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834 - 5,000
St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572
Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
Thirty Years War, 1618-48 - 11,500,000
Tudor England
Vietnam, 1800s
Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
Xhosa, 1857

 

[ChristineM]

What is religion all about?? Religion, all religions and Holy Books teach and promote love, mercy, compassion, good character, patience, the virtues, respect, tolerance, forgiveness, a sin covering eye, humility, forbearance, caring, courtesy,excellence, devotion, detachment, moderation, kindness,generosity, fairness, meekness, charity, hospitality, friendliness, truthfulness, integrity, uprightness, honesty, wisdom, empathy, cooperation, unity, harmony, oneness, peacefulness. This is what the Holy Books of all Faiths teach.

So are you saying obedience to these teachings of religion is the cause of wars???

They also teach intolerance of diffetence, slavery, rape, theft, murder and genocide.

See my above post

 

[loverofhumanity]

They also teach intolerance of diffetence, slavery, rape, theft, murder and genocide.

See my above post

All those things mentioned are clearly against the laws of God. Slavery was not introduced by the Bible but was an ancient practice that the Bible sought to moderate. Gradually Baha’u’llah in this day has abolished it in His Most Holy Book. Murder and killing are forbidden and so is rape and other such things in all the scriptures.

People who commit such atrocities in spite of their religion were disobeying the laws of their faith.

The Quran forbids war and aggression so their religion is not the cause. Only self defense is permitted. The Babis were attacked and defended themselves.

Neither God nor His Prophets or teachings have been the cause of one death. People, disobedient to the laws of love have committed these crimes.

Let’s take Jesus law of ‘love one another’. If everyone followed this one law all the wars you mentioned would never have happened. When people love money and power above love for each other then they kill. But people who love people and follow God’s law to harm no one, live in peace no matter which religion.

Obedience to the laws of love taught by God brings peace, happiness and brotherhood whilst turning away from God’s law of love towards hate and prejudice brings strife, conflicts, wars and untold grief, suffering and misery.