Can Non-Abrahamics and Abrahamics be from same God?

[Vinayaka]

We teach them to believe in them as all from the same God and to consider all of them as equal and none as superior including our own and to mix with the followers of all religions as equals.

But that's not true. If it were, there would be no need to claim that Baha'u'llah is the prophet for this age, no need to proselytise, no need to come on forums, and share this 'new' message. There would be no need to be Baha'i at all, if they're all equal? So talk and action aren't aligned. Fortunately, nearly everyone can see that. But for some reason, Baha'i can't. There is a need to compare, to disrespect, to criticize beliefs like reincarnation, literal interpretation of the Bible, and far far more. Sorry, but in dialogue, constantly switching what you say doesn't make for useful dialogue. Nobody wants to sit down and listen to someone of another faith tell you your faith got it wrong.

 

[Vinayaka]

No, you don't. You don't believe in Shinto, Korean shamanism, Chinese folk religion, Australian aboriginal religion, Inuit religion, African traditional religion, Hellenism, Religio Romana, Germanic religion, Celtic religion, Slavic religion, Mayan religion, Aztec religion, Inca religion, etc. You ignore the vast majority of the world's religious traditions.

Not to mention atheists, agnostics, and apatheists. Believe it or not, atheists, agnostics, and apatheists are people too, and just as deserving of our respect as anyone else on this planet. But from the Baha'i POV, those guys DEFINITELY got it wrong, as there is no God, let alone a monotheistic God.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That sounds rather hollow if you try to change those religions beyond recognition. You have made your own versions of those religions and put them through the Bahai blender. Of course a similar thing happened in the Abrahamic religions that preceded Bahai, so you started off on the wrong foot and are not to blame. It's an Abrahamic thing this simplistic way of messing around with other ideologies. One day you will outgrow it, I'm sure.

We see religion as basically one that has progressed over time. Similar to the different classes in a school. The religion of God appears in each age with a different name and different name of the Teacher and different teachings to suit the capacity and level of the students of that age and the times.

So we were always meant to be one religion progressing through the ages however men became disunited over their views so the religion of God broke into fragments.

So Jews were supposed to accept Christ and Christians accept Muhammad Hindus accept Buddha, and so on and there would only be one religion as was intended. But clergy once they had tasted power refused to let go of it and so they prevented their followers from progressing and accepting the next Teacher so now humanity is stuck in a mess of disjointed religions that was never meant to be.

Now when we speak of unity after they have had power and position for so long the religious leaders won’t have a bar of it.

But I believe people will eventually see the reality that there is really only one religion handed down through the ages that became fragmented and will become united again as one but gradually.

 

[Vinayaka]

We see religion as basically one that has progressed over time. Similar to the different classes in a school. The religion of God appears in each age with a different name and different name of the Teacher and different teachings to suit the capacity and level of the students of that age and the times.

Using the classes analogy, Hinduism is grade 1, Buddhism is Grade 2, Judaism is Grade 3, Christianity is grade 4. but Baha'i is Grade 5, the smartest, most superiour Grade? Do you have any sense at all how insulting this could be seen by other faiths. It's simply another way of saying "I'm smarter than you, and my religion is better than yours." Very few people have enough folly on them to see it that way.

The Hindu analogy for this would be that we're all in the same grade, but some are currently taking Math, some are currently taking Geography, like that. We're in different classes, not in lower or higher classes, one being smarter than another. We're just different.

 

[SalixIncendium]

At the end of the day, people are free to worship whatever God or image of God appeals to them, just leave others alone to worship in their way.

^^THIS^^

 

[loverofhumanity]

But that's not true. If it were, there would be no need to claim that Baha'u'llah is the prophet for this age, no need to proselytise, no need to come on forums, and share this 'new' message. There would be no need to be Baha'i at all, if they're all equal? So talk and action aren't aligned. Fortunately, nearly everyone can see that. But for some reason, Baha'i can't. There is a need to compare, to disrespect, to criticize beliefs like reincarnation, literal interpretation of the Bible, and far far more. Sorry, but in dialogue, constantly switching what you say doesn't make for useful dialogue. Nobody wants to sit down and listen to someone of another faith tell you your faith got it wrong.

We all think differently. I personally welcome diversity of thought and so I welcome your frankness and honesty.

But we are only telling it as we see it just as you tell things the way you see them.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Using the classes analogy, Hinduism is grade 1, Buddhism is Grade 2, Judaism is Grade 3, Christianity is grade 4. but Baha'i is Grade 5, the smartest, most superiour Grade? Do you have any sense at all how insulting this could be seen by other faiths. It's simply another way of saying "I'm smarter than you, and my religion is better than yours." Very few people have enough folly on them to see it that way.

The Hindu analogy for this would be that we're all in the same grade, but some are currently taking Math, some are currently taking Geography, like that. We're in different classes, not in lower or higher classes, one being smarter than another. We're just different.

Well we do live in the modern age of science so yes this age is quite different from past ages but we are still all human beings and there is no good reason for our religions to have been allowed to have been fragmented as they were.

If we had not listened to religious leaders and accepted the next Teacher we would all be united now instead of this fragmented mess of disunity which serves no useful purpose but to ignite conflicts.

 

[Vinayaka]

But we are only telling it as we see it just as you tell things the way you see them.

Yes, I know that. I just wish 'how you see it' wasn't so insulting to other faiths, including mine. But fortunately, Baha'i is a small player on the interfaith scene.

 

[SalixIncendium]

But we are only telling it as we see it just as you tell things the way you see them.

The key difference is I (using first person because I don't presume to speak for @Vinayaka) do not attempt to dismantle core views in another's religion touting them as "man-made creations" or "misinterpretations." If you choose to believe we have one go-around on this planet, so be it. Though I may disagree, I won't call it a man-made creation or a misconception. I have more respect for your right to believe as you will than to do that.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No, you don't. You don't believe in Shinto, Korean shamanism, Chinese folk religion, Australian aboriginal religion, Inuit religion, African traditional religion, Hellenism, Religio Romana, Germanic religion, Celtic religion, Slavic religion, Mayan religion, Aztec religion, Inca religion, etc. You ignore the vast majority of the world's religious traditions.

There are the major religions which we accept then there are offshoots which are essentially the same. The religions of the native peoples are basically very much similar so we embrace a lot of what they believe.

You will likely find that of all the religions you mention above we do accept many of their teachings and values but not everything.

 

[Vinayaka]

Well we do live in the modern age of science so yes this age is quite different from past ages but we are still all human beings and there is no good reason for our religions to have been allowed to have been fragmented as they were.

Fragmented? Don't you mean a natural evolution of the way humanity works? People are all different so it's natural to get 'fragmented'. Just because you're different doesn't mean you have to hate. I'm surprised that somebody within Baha'i hasn't formed a new group that actually accepts homosexuals, and allows women to sit at the head of the organisation. Most people wishing that just leave to more progressive faiths. In Canada I saw a church separate into 2 churches for that very reason: irreconcilble differences over gays. You see it as a problem whereas I see it as the more the merrier. We have 12 Hindu temples in this city, and I love them all. They're all quite different. Something for everyone.

 

[Vinayaka]

Here has some references to Hindu Prophecies from Bahai POV.

4 - Hindu Prophecies

Not my version of Hinduism, but a misinterpreted Baha'i version. You cherry pick what you want to, and if that doesn't work, you just make stuff up. Yes, all the Baha'i buy it. The infallibilty belief means you couldn't possibly be wrong.

 

[Vinayaka]

The key difference is I (using first person because I don't presume to speak for @Vinayaka) do not attempt to dismantle core views in another's religion touting them as "man-made creations" or "misinterpretations." If you choose to believe we have one go-around on this planet, so be it. Though I may disagree, I won't call it a man-made creation or a misconception. I have more respect for your right to believe as you will than to do that.

Oh you do a pretty good job of speaking for me, but thank you for not using 'we'.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Not my version of Hinduism, but a misinterpreted Baha'i version. You cherry pick what you want to, and if that doesn't work, you just make stuff up. Yes, all the Baha'i buy it. The infallibilty belief means you couldn't possibly be wrong.

Do you want to give an example of cherry picking?

 

[Vinayaka]

There are the major religions which we accept then there are offshoots which are essentially the same. The religions of the native peoples are basically very much similar so we embrace a lot of what they believe.

You will likely find that of all the religions you mention above we do accept many of their teachings and values but not everything.

Atheism too?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Using the classes analogy, Hinduism is grade 1, Buddhism is Grade 2, Judaism is Grade 3, Christianity is grade 4. but Baha'i is Grade 5, the smartest, most superiour Grade? Do you have any sense at all how insulting this could be seen by other faiths. It's simply another way of saying "I'm smarter than you, and my religion is better than yours." Very few people have enough folly on them to see it that way.

The Hindu analogy for this would be that we're all in the same grade, but some are currently taking Math, some are currently taking Geography, like that. We're in different classes, not in lower or higher classes, one being smarter than another. We're just different.

Using the teacher anology, the teacher can teach any grade, but only offers lessons to the capacity the class they were teaching.

Those teachings provide the foundation for higher learning.

Progressive revelation in tune with evolution and our scientific mind.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Do you want to give an example of cherry picking?

Sure.

In Hinduism the Baha'i teachings focus on one sect ... Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Hinduism is far larger than Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Many many Hindus like myself don't believe in Kalki at all. So that is cherry picking. Even if the writings about Hinduism by Baha'i authors said, "Some Hindus believe in Kalki, but many don't, it would be accurate. I also don't believe in avatars, or Krishna, and Baha'is make it sound like that's all there is.

I could cherry pick Baha'i writings buy focusing on the writings of Juan Cole.

Hinduism, in particular is easy to cherry pick, because we're so vast. In terms of scripture, Abrahamic religions are religions of the book, whereas Sanatana Dharma is a religion of the library.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes, I know that. I just wish 'how you see it' wasn't so insulting to other faiths, including mine. But fortunately, Baha'i is a small player on the interfaith scene.

Yes our views are quite revolutionary in many ways so they can feel unsettling to others.

 

[Vinayaka]

Using the teacher anology, the teacher can teach any grade, but only offers lessons to the capacity the class they were teaching.

Those teachings provide the foundation for higher learning.

Progressive revelation in tune with evolution and our scientific mind.

Regards Tony

This makes no sense to me, Tony. Not at all sure what you're trying to say. The 'higher learning' is Baha'i, I presume?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Atheism too?

A lot of Atheists do embrace the core values given by God.

Regards Tony