Can Non-Abrahamics and Abrahamics be from same God?

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes that is your belief. It isn't fact, as you suggest.. Maybe some ethical atheists can chime in. I believe ethical nature is mostly common sense, although as we all know, ethics vary by religion.

The interesting studies are those where a child was lost and brought up without education on the wild.

10 Feral Human Children Raised by Animals

Nature and Nurture can impart our values.

Now all we have to do is find the source of the teachings about virtue. I suggest this will be all the manifestations of God.

Regards Tony

 

[Shad]

Although the Hindu, Budhism and other Non-Abrahamic Religions seem to be different than the Abrahamics ones, Can they be from the same God, but were revealed or manifested in different ways, based on cultural differences

Could God have spoke dharma, the way He did to Hindus, but in other cultures, He manifested Prophets as seen in Abrahamics.

Would this verse of Quran, explain it?

"To every People have We appointed [different] rites and ceremonies which they must follow: let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord: for thou art assuredly on the Right Way. 2:67

Comment in bracket is by myself.

This idea would require alterations to some ideas based on exclusivity thus will disputed. Seal of the Prophets for example removes any future prophets from this idea. The Trinity against strict monotheism would need to be resolved. There would be an issue of priority as well if other ideas conflict. Which verse is for the here and now compared to those applicable to the past. There is also a general problem of making God a cultural and moral relativists.The biggest issues is deciding which religions are genuine in prophethood and which are fakes.

I doubt many will be convinced given how religion spreads and gains followers.

 

[Vinayaka]

I have no objection at all to people going anywhere for information it’s just you said you would stick up for us and I found that odd that’s all.

Just haven't had the opportunity yet maybe. Most certainly as for the philosophy, I would disagree with JWs more than with Baha'i, yet I'm sticking up for their right to believe as well.

Slander is huge jump, don't you think?

Inherent in the challenge is that since progressive revelation is a key tenet, it automatically involves other faiths. Very few faiths have the opinion of other faiths as a core tenet.

 

[Vinayaka]

The interesting studies are those where a child was lost and brought up without education on the wild.

10 Feral Human Children Raised by Animals

Nature and Nurture can impart our values.

Now all we have to do is find the source of the teachings about virtue. I suggest this will be all the manifestations of God.

Regards Tony

No idea how this relates at all. Might as well have given me distance to the moon.

 

[sayak83]

The reason Arjuna couldn’t re,ember thrm is becsuse they never happened. Arjuna, his qualities reappeared from time to time but not the self same person.

Let’s look at Jesus saying that John the Baptist was Elijah yet John denied it breaches he was thinking that he was not the person Elijah but Christ was referring to the same spirit and qualities not the same actual Elijah so he said Elijah had returned and John the Baptist fulfilled the same role as forerunner.

At the end of many births or generations man turns to God. True. That’s how I understand it.

Men who have no faith in spiritual knowledge are born into spiritual death and materialism. I may not see it the way you do but that’s just me.

I don't care what Jesus says.
If I understand it, the way you are reinterpreting everything here is just replacing the category "mankind" in each and every case where Gita talks about an individual person. Obviously this has no linguistic basis. The words used for individuals and that used for the human kind as a whole are entirely different and the corresponding pronouns and verbs are also different. Sanskrit is very exact language in that way. For example consider these to expressions: (he goes) vs (they go). You can't simply interpret "he goes" as "they go" without violating all rules of reading comprehension.
So for example in Chapter 6:41, when it is saying:-

Attaining the worlds of the meritorious,
Having dwelt there for endless years,
He who has fallen from yoga is born again
In the dwelling of the radiant and the illustrious.
Or he may be born in the family of wise yogins;
Such a birth (janma) as this is indeed very difficult to attain in the world.


This he is a singular "he" corresponding with singular has (Sanskrit has its equivalents here). There is no way to interpret this at all in terms of talking about general mankind. And that would not make much sense anyways. How can entire mankind be born in the house of a yogin? What would that even mean?

Further, Krishna categorically says that Arjuna (not some set of Arjuna like humans) passed through many births:

Chapter 4: verse 5.
janmaani(births) tava(of you) carjuna (arjuna).

So there again, your interpretation makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't care what Jesus says.
If I understand it, the way you are reinterpreting everything here is just replacing the category "mankind" in each and every case where Gita talks about an individual person. Obviously this has no linguistic basis. The words used for individuals and that used for the human kind as a whole are entirely different and the corresponding pronouns and verbs are also different. Sanskrit is very exact language in that way. For example consider these to expressions: (he goes) vs (they go). You can't simply interpret "he goes" as "they go" without violating all rules of reading comprehension.
So for example in Chapter 6:41, when it is saying:-

Attaining the worlds of the meritorious,
Having dwelt there for endless years,
He who has fallen from yoga is born again
In the dwelling of the radiant and the illustrious.
Or he may be born in the family of wise yogins;
Such a birth (janma) as this is indeed very difficult to attain in the world.


This he is a singular "he" corresponding with singular has (Sanskrit has its equivalents here). There is no way to interpret this at all in terms of talking about general mankind. And that would not make much sense anyways. How can entire mankind be born in the house of a yogin? What would that even mean?

Further, Krishna categorically says that Arjuna (not some set of Arjuna like humans) passed through many births:

Chapter 4: verse 5.
janmaani(births) tava(of you) carjuna (arjuna).

So there again, your interpretation makes no sense whatsoever.

It’s not just a literal Book to me. It’s a book for the soul and spirit of man but if your interpretation is to your liking then you believe that. I see it differently.

 

[sayak83]

Using the classes analogy, Hinduism is grade 1, Buddhism is Grade 2, Judaism is Grade 3, Christianity is grade 4. but Baha'i is Grade 5, the smartest, most superiour Grade? Do you have any sense at all how insulting this could be seen by other faiths. It's simply another way of saying "I'm smarter than you, and my religion is better than yours." Very few people have enough folly on them to see it that way.

The Hindu analogy for this would be that we're all in the same grade, but some are currently taking Math, some are currently taking Geography, like that. We're in different classes, not in lower or higher classes, one being smarter than another. We're just different.

Then sceince based naturalistic atheism/humanism is grade 6. Oops. The Bahai should immediately start following Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking as they have the latest revelation.

 

[sayak83]

It’s not just a literal Book to me. It’s a book for the soul and spirit of man but if your interpretation is to your liking then you believe that. I see it differently.

But you made the claim that the Hindus have misinterpretated what the Gita is actually saying regarding rebirth. Unless you demonstrate how your interpretation is more in keeping with the meaning of the words and senteces of the various verses present in Gita....how can your claim have any justification?

Clearly the correct interpretation of any book (even your texts) is that which is more consonant with the meanings that the sentences and verses and paragraphs contained in that book?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

........I believe ethical nature is mostly common sense, although as we all know, ethics vary by religion.

The interesting studies are those where a child was lost and brought up without education on the wild.

10 Feral Human Children Raised by Animals

Nature and Nurture can impart our values.

Now all we have to do is find the source of the teachings about virtue. I suggest this will be all the manifestations of God.

Regards Tony

No idea how this relates at all. Might as well have given me distance to the moon.

If ethical nature is common sense and not taught, then an uneducated child would portray common ethical behavior, not revert to animal instincts.

If ethics come via an educator, we have to consider who were the first to teach these advanced ethics.

Regards Tony

 

[RoaringSilence]

As I understand it reincarnation is a man made interpretation of scriptures that has been debunked by all the Manifestations of God.

I believe a too literal interpretation of the Gita has led to a misinterpretation and that the Gita definitely does not teach reincarnation in any form whatsoever.

As to Guru Nanak. Thank you for the Book. He is considered a wonderful soul but as he was not a Manifestation of God he did not possess the knowledge only They possess which clearly state that reincarnation is a misconception.

We believe that what Bahá'u'lláh has revealed and Abdu'l-Bahá has written is from God, and divinely inspired; that Bahá'u'lláh is a Manifestation of God, and has access to a knowledge denied to ordinary human beings.'" (Letter written to an individual believer, April 22, 1954 on behalf of the Guardian

im sure you haven't read either and you are clearly wrong here , 3 billion people will differ with you on that analysis .. both books boast about reincarnation almost in every chapter. i could paste all of the verses , but it looks like it wont matter becoz you dint even bother reading either.
so good luck to you and your bubble.

 

[sayak83]

Hello,

The Bahais do not believe all Prophets said the same thing. They believe God appeared in different ways at different times and locations. We do not believe God is like a Robot who just repeats same thing again and again. We do not believe God ever reveals absolute truth. He reveals a relative truth each time in accordance to the requirements. His way is different each time He appears.

Then both rebirth and absence of rebirth could be relative truths that are true from their own perspective but neither being ultimately accurate way of describing the way things are?

 

[Samantha Rinne]

"Could this verse from the Quran prove it" is not a good way to open. The Quran is frequently borrowed from other scripture, so rather than being some kind of missing link, it is actually a link created by plagiarism. Not to mention the Quran cannot decide how to treat othe faiths or whether humans are made of clay, dust, blood, etc.

Now, if you were to ask if there are common threads between Eastern and Western faiths, yes there is. There are even common legends, such as a giant boat (Noah and Yamato both have an ark).

 

[sayak83]

If ethical nature is common sense and not taught, then an uneducated child would portray common ethical behavior, not revert to animal instincts.

If ethics come via an educator, we have to consider who were the first to teach these advanced ethics.

Regards Tony

But many animals are quite ethical, especially those who live in communities. Wolves, monkeys, dolphins, elephants, mice.
Animals can tell right from wrong

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But many animals are quite ethical, especially those who live in communities. Wolves, monkeys, dolphins, elephants, mice.
Animals can tell right from wrong

Yes each animal also dispalys one or many attributes of God.

The Bible tells us the difference.;

Genesis 1:26"Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

We get to choose the virtues and put them into practice.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

But you made the claim that the Hindus have misinterpretated what the Gita is actually saying regarding rebirth. Unless you demonstrate how your interpretation is more in keeping with the meaning of the words and senteces of the various verses present in Gita....how can your claim have any justification?

Clearly the correct interpretation of any book (even your texts) is that which is more consonant with the meanings that the sentences and verses and paragraphs contained in that book?

We believe when we die we take on another body but a spiritual not material body in another world.

I believe when the Gita says we return it means to a condition not the physical earth as it is a spiritual book describing the soul and the fall and rise of spiritual,progress.

The only thing we believe dies return are the qualities not the individuality of the person. So the flowers of last spring return again this year but by that we do not mean the exact same flowers return but the qualities such as the colour, shape and fragrance return.

So I see today the return of past generations who deny the Manifestation of God. Not the same individuals but the same kind of people..

A return is indeed referred to in the Holy Scriptures, but by this is meant the return of the qualities, conditions, effects, perfections, and inner realities of the lights which recur in every dispensation. The reference is not to specific, individual souls and identities.
It may be said, for instance, that this lamplight is last night’s come back again, or that last year’s rose hath returned to the garden this year. Here the reference is not to the individual reality, the fixed identity, the specialized being of that other rose, rather doth it mean that the qualities, the distinctive characteristics of that other light, that other flower, are present now, in these. Those perfections, that is, those graces and gifts of a former springtime are back again this year. We say, for example, that this fruit is the same as last year’s; but we are thinking only of the delicacy, bloom and freshness, and the sweet taste of it; for it is obvious that that impregnable centre of reality, that specific identity, can never return.

 

[loverofhumanity]

im sure you haven't read either and you are clearly wrong here , 3 billion people will differ with you on that analysis .. both books boast about reincarnation almost in every chapter. i could paste all of the verses , but it looks like it wont matter becoz you dint even bother reading either.
so good luck to you and your bubble.

Of course I read the scriptures of other religions as they are an integral part of my own religion, the major religions. I have studied the major Holy Scriptures and I believe that they are true except for the interpretations of priests or religious leaders.

I refer to a Manifestation of God for guidance Who has more knowledge I believe than any human can ever have on such things and agree with what Baha’u’llah (Kalki Avatars) has said with regards to the topic of reincarnation etc.

If my crime is turning to and believing in Krishna when I believe He reappeared as Kalki in the Manifestation of Baha’u’llah as the Gita foretold then I am guilty as charged.

 

[RoaringSilence]

Of course I read the scriptures of other religions as they are an integral part of my own religion, the major religions. I have studied the major Holy Scriptures and I believe that they are true except for the interpretations of priests or religious leaders.

I refer to a Manifestation of God for guidance Who has more knowledge I believe than any human can ever have on such things and agree with what Baha’u’llah (Kalki Avatars) has said with regards to the topic of reincarnation etc.

If my crime is turning to and believing in Krishna when I believe He reappeared as Kalki in the Manifestation of Baha’u’llah as the Gita foretold then I am guilty as charged.

baha ullah cannot be the kalki avatar, guru gobind singh ji was the kalki avtar , he fits the description 100% , kalki is warrior who sits on a white horse and annihilates oppressors thats what guru gobind singh ji did.
dont cherry pick one line about his return and label it to anyone.. no hindu will accept you calling him kalki ever, you can keep trying a life time but no hindu will accept it ...

 

[loverofhumanity]

baha ullah cannot be the kalki avatar, guru gobind singh ji was the kalki avtar , he fits the description 100% , kalki is warrior who sits on a white horse and annihilates oppressors thats what guru gobind singh ji did.
dont cherry pick one line about his return and label it to anyone.. no hindu will accept you calling him kalki ever, you can keep trying a life time but no hindu will accept it ...

I don’t know about Guru Gobind Singh but this is a letter from the Head of our Faith regarding Guru Nanak

In a letter from the Universal House of Justice, it is stated that Guru Nanak was endowed with a "saintly character". [1] In the same letter, the Universal House of Justice states that He was

"inspired to reconcile the religions of Hinduism and Islám, the followers of which religions had been in violent conflict.... The Bahá'ís thus view Guru Nanak as a 'saint of the highest order' ".

 

[RoaringSilence]

I don’t know about Guru Gobind Singh but this is a letter from the Head of our Faith regarding Guru Nanak

In a letter from the Universal House of Justice, it is stated that Guru Nanak was endowed with a "saintly character". [1] In the same letter, the Universal House of Justice states that He was

"inspired to reconcile the religions of Hinduism and Islám, the followers of which religions had been in violent conflict.... The Bahá'ís thus view Guru Nanak as a 'saint of the highest order' ".

the universal house of BS calls your claim of kalki avatar as laughable bs and the certificate will be sent shortly... who gave them the authority to assign a RANK to those who gave up their children in trying to fend of your land lusty politically motivated religion users to invade others and tell them whos who and whats what. we are not dimi's ...our quest for a peaceful life shouldn't be taken as a weakness.

we will issue certificates not you.

 

[Vinayaka]

Nice that you bring this up, I was pondering about opening up a topic about how people grade other traditions (with motivations).

I understand a 'grade' for individuals, as clearly some folks are more ethical than others. But I don't see the relationship to which tradition they follow.